Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Mar 6, 2013.
I think we have a winner. This is now my personal canon.
I would love that if I thought future authors would be allowed to run with it, but I'm not that optimistic.
Oh, also Eeth Koth's life, but no one cares about that, I guess.
It could be moons... it could be that the Separatists put together a day and night cycle for ease, using artificial means.
Hm, the "Ryloth" we see in every other source is the Twi'lek holy world, for survival, to really test themselves, as part of that warrior culture that guy from the X-wing books was trying to raise galactic awareness of? With the TCW version being the normal homeworld and the other EU Ryloth being their survival ground, or colony, due to some civil war or culture spreading or something?
Oh, I know, the Seperatists built themselves a prototype Death Star and it happened to fly by Ryloth really closely, and started the planet spinning. Or that Techno Union guy, Wat Tambor was it?, used gravity weapons to wreck Ryloth's orbit, causing it to start spinning, and the environmental and social chaos that resulted made it easy to invade. I still remember those old online comics that sort of filled in gaps between the episodes (too bad they don't bother with those anymore), that showed he invaded Ryloth to steal some rival's money or something. Or he flew that proto-Death Star by Ryloth to wreck and then invade. Or some Seperatist made scientist came up with a weapon to start a world spinning, but there weren't many tidally locked planets so they tested it out on Ryloth. Or Ryloth spinning is a once in a five thousand year event (and we can then get a comic of the last time its happened during the Great Hyperspace War?).
It depends on if Lucas says Ryloth was always a spinning world or not, or if we can narrow it down to just those TCW episodes. Although a lot of my random suggestions are too silly/stupid/implausible, and go a bit too sci-fi rather than space fantasy, but than Star Wars has some elements from both depending on the story. And trying not to complain about TCW either.
hmm.. agreed on the age thingie..
as for rotation.. I am all for keeping the potential future status of dumb changes to not have retcons cease to work later on.
But that is why I added the wobbling.. like the axis it rotates on allows not for day/night cycles but merely darker and brighter shadows in the line between fire and ice side. the total darkness then is added by the moons orbits so we preserve both old and new versions of ryloth. it got rotation but none that would be like a normal worlds. it rotates with ice side always facing away from sun and sunny side always facing sun.. horizontal axis that is slightly off a perfect horizon to allow the shadowlands to slip in and out of darkness but not the entire planet.
Just for reference, here's Leland Chee in, I believe, Insider #120:
I think best-case scenario is to figure out a way that it only rotates circa TCW, but there can be no mistake: it is rotating.
honestly I am loosing my respect for Mr. Chee reading this.. *sigh*
but if that is the case there are still other ways to play it. No need for a temporary rotation, which is invalidated as soon as Ryloth appears elsewhere in other eras with TCW spin. So your temporary idea is as doomed as mine then.
Ok, got another easy fix.. lets see if that finds your approval:
If All parts of the world experience night and day... AND it still keeps ice and hot side, which he did not deny, then the ice side is frozen not because of the sun but because of some other reason. And here it comes:
A) Ryloths moons (yeah not letting that one go!) have fixed orbits so that the ice side while facing the sun experiences lots of darkness still due to the moons blacking it out. Why their orbit is fixed.. be it natural or Celestial origin.. who knows.
B) Ice side does experience bright daylight and not melt due to underground Rakatan/Celestial tech keeping it that way. A leftover of an ancient war that for whatever reason.. be it to protect a secret, freeze an army or whatever froze half a world. Rumor then spread across the galaxy that it got no rotation.. something that clearly is not true as we all know *rolls eyes* for how can the silly folks of the GFFA believe in no rotation but still the world got gravity? eh? so TCW fixed logic by destroying continuity
Dude, it's his job. Would you really still argue with Lucas if you had a salary riding on it?
Oh, and my temporary solution is fine because Chee doesn't say "forever".
Actually, yeah I would. I do with my boss a lot even. That's how I tick.. sorry. Well your temporary solution is only fine till Episode 7 features Ryloth..
Besides... nukes and bombs arn't the solution to all things problematic in fiction.. be it restarting the Earths core, stopping an asteroid, creating a wormhole/blackhole/whatever... maybe I am too European there, but you americans, no offense, think too much in terms of "It's not working, must have been a bomb!" or "It's not working, lets get it to work with another bomb!"
Then again, some other supertech like gravity generator etc. I'd accept if it is of ancient origin and NOT just used temporarily or built by Separatists...
Other SciFi universes have small artificial suns, created to orbit planets and provide light and some heat. Maybe one of these was installed in orbit around Ryloth some time before the Clone Wars, creating a day and night cycle.
And then, a few years later, Rogue Squadron visited Ryloth...
Wedge: "Sithspit! What's that?"
Janson: "That's the sun, Wedge. It's after dawn."
Wedge: "Well, it offends me. Turn it off."
Finally a new superweapon! The Hand Of Dooku? The Planet Spinner? The Totality Top?
B, I didn't say bomb, I said superweapon. And more recently, "gravity well generator". Totality Top FTW.
Just note that Mandalore is already resolved.
Mandalore was mottled with forests and jungles and hills, but much of the planet had been reduced to to lonely drifts of white sand - Shadow Conspiracy
A) for it to be racist, americans need to be a race.. but all I am aware of is they are a mixed bunch of which the diversity topic would be proud would it exist in the GFFA... though, Canada even more so
B) gravity well generator might work but is the typical fantasy device of "lets defy logic and use a device of unknown capabilities".. I'd say it is a way out.. but not the best option there is. and an overused on too.
C) your Totality FLOP would actually lead to Ryloths Iceside melting... leading to massive floods ruining lots of Rylothian wildlife and plantlife.. however rare it may be. The water mass an entire iceside of a world can contain given Ryloths size is immense and would more than just flood the entire world.. we could have a Mon Cala colony on Ryloth then, given it is a waterworld shortly after your solution was initiated We did not see that in TCW therefore I doubt your solution works. All that ice turned water needs to go somewhere... and don't tell me it flooded the caves and drove Twileks to live topside suddendly for a decade cause then it would freeze in the caves as soon as the Totality Flop gets turned off... freezing water expands and thus bursts the stone around it to lead to massive quakes and tectonic ripples with rather underground frozen oceans instead of the topside icelands we saw in YJK. need I say more of why it does not work?
Wait a second... the important question is: why would the seps make a planet spin? Maybe to turn it into some kind of dynamo or induction field? What is so special about Ryloth that they need to make it spin instead of taking any other planet that is already spinning? I like the idea of a separatist experiment, because it would give an additional reason for the occupation. How far can we take this?
Enter Kyp Durron in the Sun Crusher, laughing about your denominator "typical fantasy device". And helping Wedge get back to sleep in the process.
Honestly, if the choice is between crazy adventurous fun fantasy technology and serious application of scientific principles, the former is the better way of resolving the absurdities of Star Wars. The whackier it gets, the better it can deal with TCW!
But what if it has only been active for a few days? Activated right after the separatist invasion and deactivated five minutes after Mace turned off his lightsaber?
PS: If you want tech to be a solution, I vote for the Tjelkon Vagabond stopping by mistaking Ryloth's ice side for Brath Quella.. it melted the ice side away and gave it a slight spin and left... then it froze over again within a decade.
I'm going to have to go with the most economical solution - Ryloth does rotate, but whatever conditions in the system cause it have extreme temperatures at the equators and poles, with two narrow bands of habitable regions in-between. Much like the case with Mon Cal and the erroneous belief that they were discovered by the Empire rather than ancient members of the Republic, similarly "popular wisdom" has Ryloth as a planet with no rotation, probably spread by Twi'leks so aliens won't bother them by coming to their planet.
Rather than a Superweapon, perhaps there's a natural solution to the Ryloth rotation issue.
The core problem is that, during the Clone Wars it has a ordinary rotation, and then, in other time periods, it is tidally locked to its primary.
Okay, I'm not a master of astronomy, but I don't see why Ryloth cannot, periodically, be both. If the planet is naturally located right on the edge of the gravitational boundary that would make it tidally locked, then a variation in the distance of its orbit would allow this to change. So, we just need to induce a cyclical variation in the orbitting pattern.
My solution: add a new planet to the Ryloth system. A recently acquired rogue gas giant, one that retains a highly eccentric orbit as present, and so that every time it passes through the inner system the gravitational interactions pull Ryloth back and forth, shifting its orbit just enough, that it moves from being tidally locked to not locked and then back again.
well.. in that case of it being active for only few days the ice would not melt completely... then again, the ecological repercussions of such a process still would be terriffic. not the melting alone would be a problem but the change in gravity, the tectonic activity, etc.
sorry I love my realism there. even if we go all fantasy device, it needs to be made believable my logic, even if fictional logic. Just saying it works is not enough for me. I know physic laws work different in fictional universes, but there needs to be logic and consistency amongst the universes' laws itself to make it believable and not a joke or bad excuse.
you know, I'd rather go for Ryloth having always had a rotation with the fixed axis being a myth and find an explanation for the iceside despite rotation rather than going the other way around with only a few decades or days of rotation and before and after that a fixed spot to the sun. I mean... it's not like there can't be logical explanations. heck have the ice side when facing the sun stay icy cause foggy clouds do not let the sun through much given the huge amount of ice melting and being sucked into the sky by the heat.. like permanent nuclear winter over half a planet.. despite rotation... maybe kept in check by at its boarders some wondertech keeping it from spreading across all of the world.. or by natural barriers like the equatorial mountains..
great one, love it! that's my kind of retcon or its moons align special every few decades/centuries so that it rotates while rotation is prevented when not aligned correctly.. or have it rotate and the tidal lock being the occasional thing over a period of time. that works and preserves actually BOTH Ryloth versions, rotating and tidal lock at the same time for all eras given what cycle length for the alignments we use! brilliant Mechalich
I am no astromancer, but I wonder if Ryloth could be kind of...I dunno...wobbly? Like, the day zone moves a few miles one time period, and then it ***** more to the night zone, making some cities on the border regions experience occasional day/night periods?
Or, is it possible that complex interactions between Ryloth's seven moons could create temporary nights for some areas?
Ace, see my Chee quote earlier. I'm definitely down with Mechalich's idea. Even better--just to make the whole thing a little less convenient, what if the temperate band shifted a little at the end of each rotation period? So the planet is actually filled with habitations, but they have to keep migrating from one stripe to the next every...year? Decade? Millennium? That could actually make for some awesome stories in and of itself.
possible.. but for them returning to the first given up habitat after one full move around the planet would take centuries if not millennia.. anything shorter hardly freezes/unfreezes the iceside fast enough to make that move around the globe possible. and it should be a real hoth-esque ice side, not a cold winter side. but that is definitely workable. hmm.. though that requires the frozen over habitats to be near ruined/crushed/flushed out by melting floods if not underground and secured by airtight shutoff cities. whose tech would be outdated by the time the clans returned to the former habitats. they'd have it easier to buy moving cities like on Nnklon which is a rotating world with a too hot side and a not frozen but acceptable hot side with a slow spin to compare Ryloth to, though it is closer to its sun, much closer.
Ah, okay. I knew the Atlas had sort of hinted at that, but I didn't think it'd been made explicit yet.
Exactly--which just makes it even more interesting. Though one thing: are we so certain the cold side is Hoth-style? "Frozen" doesn't necessary mean "covered in water ice"; I always figured it was just too cold for easy habitation.