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CT Lack of Criticism Toward Leia and Chewbacca

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by DRush76, Jan 1, 2013.

  1. DRush76

    DRush76 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2008
    I am amazed that after all of these years, neither Leia or Chewbacca had barely ever received criticism for their stupidity in "THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK". One, neither they or Han ever realized that their arrival at Bespin created a world of trouble for Lando; and two, it was only natural that he would consider the safety of the colony's citizens over them. Worse, Lando went through a great deal of subterfuge to rescue Leia, Chewbacca and Threepio from stormtroopers. And what happened? Chewbacca looses his temper and strangles Lando, while Leia encourages him. Stupid.
     
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  2. Joe

    Joe Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2012
    Han had to stop somewhere, and he trusted Lando would go to lengths to help them. Even if Lando couldn't keep Han there, Lando could have been fair with Han about the Empire on Bespin. But he didn't. Lando betrayed Han's trust.
     
  3. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Four Time PT Trivia Champ/GOAT/New Films Manager star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    I could be wrong but I don't think Han or Leia would have thought that Lando would have any idea that they were apart of the rebellion and thus probably thought it would be a lot safer than many other places they could go. To Lando it would have been an old friend showing up to request help in fixing his ship but the Empire messed everything up by showing up first.
     
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  4. DarthRelaxus

    DarthRelaxus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 23, 2007
    I am horrified at this unwarranted attack on such beloved characters. Repent. REPENT!
     
  5. DRush76

    DRush76 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2008

    If Lando had not betrayed Han, he would have betrayed the citizens of Bespin. Sorry, but I don't see why Lando had to be more loyal to Han than to the people he administered . . . especially with Vader and the Empire closely observing him.

    I never understood this attitude that Lando had to be some kind of loyal pet to Han. I'm surprised that Lando was never angry at Han for leading Vader and the Empire to Bespin. Also Chewie's actions and Leia's encouragement prevented Lando from saving Han from Boba Fett. Very few people ever consider this.
     
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  6. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    The difference of a few seconds isn't likely to be enough- they'd have arrived just as the hatch was closing, and their pistols can't penetrate starship armour.
     
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  7. DRush76

    DRush76 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2008
    The problem with this argument is that Chewbacca and Leia didn't delay Lando by a few seconds. I just watched the movie.


    But it is plain to see that no one is willing to criticize the two for their stupid actions. They're among the main characters of the Original Trilogy . . . and therefore, above such criticism.
     
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  8. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    Your reasoning is faulty.
    1) Han and co thought they had lost their imperial pursuers and they had. It was only Boba Fett that was clever enough to consider the ruse Han had used. So they had no idea that they were followed.
    2) The ship HAD to be repaired or else they would be stuck. So they had to go somewhere and as Leia said, there was not much around the place where they were. Their plan was to go there, fix the ship and then leave. The whole thing taking a couple of days.
    3) Later Lando says that there always had been a danger that the empire comes and shuts down their mine. So Bespin was always in danger from the empire even without Han and the others there.
    4) Leia and Chewie have been captured, tortured and had to watch Han be frozen and turned over to Boba Fett who will sell him to Jabba.
    And you are suprised that they are angry? Esp Chewie, who has been estabilsed as having a quick and rather violent temper. Had they instantly gone with Lando, without as much as a harsh word to him, it would have come off as terribly unconvincing and fake.

    Can Lando's actions be understood? Sure, he was faced with two choices, neither of them pleasant and he eventually made the right choice.
    But to ask that Chewie and Leia instantly see this and forgive him without question is unrealistic.

    If you want to talk stupid actions then take RotJ and the rebels taking along a shiny golden android into a jungle while the rest of them wear camoflage.

    Bye for now.
    Blackboard Monitor.
     
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  9. Count Yubnub

    Count Yubnub Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 1, 2012
    Two reason why this doesn't work for me:
    - Han didn't trust Lando, so Lando didn't "betray Han's trust."
    - Han lied to Lando about the reason they were there to begin with ("ah, repairs" --he should have been honest and have added that they were fugitives from the Empire.).
     
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  10. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    Good to see you've learned your lesson.

    /thread
     
  11. DRush76

    DRush76 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2008

    You know what? I haven't. I'm going to continue posting on this thread. Congratulations. You've failed to keep me quiet.

    And by the way, the more I think of what happened on Bespin, the more I 'm inclined to not only blame Leia and Chewbacca, but also Han.
     
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  12. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
  13. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Considering they were weeks, or even months, away from Bespin, which was right next door- they didn't have any alternative but to go there. Anywhere else would have taken years or decades, and they would have probably run out of power or water before then.
     
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  14. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Nor did Leia receive any criticism regarding her direct racist comment against Chewbacca in ANH.

    <sarcasm>
    But hey, it's the OT, so it's alright. Racism only exists in the PT because some people happen to associate certain manners of a couple of characters with certain ethnicities.
    </sarcasm>
     
  15. TheMadHatter

    TheMadHatter Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2009
    But it is plain to see that no one is willing to criticize the two for their stupid actions. They're among the main characters of the Original Trilogy . . . and therefore, above such criticism.

    -------

    talking bad about ESB in star wars fandom is like peeing on an electric generator in a power station,

    funny in a way, highly depressing in another
     
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  16. FryingpoorGreedo

    FryingpoorGreedo Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2012
    They really had no reason to know that the Empire was there. Plus they didn't really know Lando so for all they knew he was a stand up guy now that he went legit.
     
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  17. Darthbane2007

    Darthbane2007 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Wasn't there some story out about how Billy Dee Williams went to pick up his kid from school, and the other kids were asking him why he gave up Han and the good guys to the Empire?
     
  18. PiettsHat

    PiettsHat Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Narratively, I don't think there's an issue with Leia and Chewbacca getting upset at Lando for seemingly colluding with the Empire. They had just watched Han being frozen and obviously tensions were running high (although it does bother me that Leia showed more reaction to this -- where Han didn't even die -- than the destruction of Alderaan).

    Where the scene becomes problematic for me, though, is that the film never really calls out Leia and Chewie for their behavior -- it never, in any way, points out that it was wrong of them to choke Lando nor do they apologize to him. They just get away scot-free with their status as lovable heroes after almost choking a man to death whose only crime was trying to protect his people.

    I mean, honestly, what did they expect Lando to do? Have everyone on Bespin's life put at risk just for Han? Because don't forget, Lando originally thought that Leia and Chewbacca would be safe with him and that only Han would be taken.
     
  19. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I didn't have a problem with what Leia and Chewbacca did; they were in a stressful situation and they both lost their ****. If there is any criticism to be leveled, it should be regarding the fact that if they hadn't both lost it when they did and taken up that precious few seconds choking Han, they might have been able to reach the Slave I in time to rescue Han before it flew off.

    That said, while I agree that there is a lot of misplaced moral outrage against the PT characters, I'm not a big fan of the "Well look over there!" game.
     
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  20. Darthbane2007

    Darthbane2007 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2007
    How can they choke Han to rescue Han?
     
  21. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    My bad. They wasted precious seconds choking Lando.
     
  22. KilroyMcFadden

    KilroyMcFadden Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    When Chewie was trying to kill Lando, he and Leia were not yet aware that Lando had vital information. They were just trying to exact revenge for what he did to Han. As soon as it became obvious that Lando was trying to help, Chewie quit attacking him. Given that Chewie and Lando trusted each other enough to take off together in a Falcon a couple of days later, I assumed that IK trusted the viewer enough to get that an apology had happened in the days following the events at Bespin prior to meeting up with the fleet. Does that sound like what everyone else always thought?
     
  23. TOSCHESTATION

    TOSCHESTATION Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2003
    =D=


    Me neither.

    I've noticed a disturbing trend over the years on these boards: many times when there's criticism of the PT, the "OT quoque" fallacy is made; meaning, "THE OT DID IT TOO!!!". What is strange - well, maybe not - is that when fans criticize ROTJ*, you rarely** hear OT fans chiming with "The PT did it too!!".

    *fans like drg4, myself, and others

    **not saying that there isn't ANY instance of this, just that I've never heard of it
     
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  24. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Backpacking One Pack a Day Mod of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2005
    You don't see a cadre of fans running into every thread to drip their disdain for ROTJ as you do for the PT, hence many shrug off such.
     
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  25. TOSCHESTATION

    TOSCHESTATION Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2003
    [face_thinking] Interesting....so the 'common-place' nature of the criticisms of the PT is the reason for the 'OT quoque' fallacy then?