lack of danger=lack of drama

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I don't really think the Jedi are in their prime. They're shown as decadent, ineffective, and inefficient. There was no concern over the menace of the Sith, no progress made in their "investigations" over ten years, and they were not concerned with the goings on at Naboo yet are willing to spare no member in rescuing one Jedi on Geonosis.[/b][hr][/blockquote]Actually, it wasn't Obi-Wan that the Jedi were expressly journeying to Geonosis to aid -- their first tactical objective was to put paid to Count Dooku's plans to attack the Republic, rather than expending 200 Jedi on a single rescue attempt.

It's Padmé whom decides to take matters into her own hands and rescue Kenobi, once it's clear that he's only of secondary importance behind the primary goal of interdicting the Separatists. ([i]"...He gave [b]you[/b] strict orders to protect [b]me[/b], and I'm going to help Obi-Wan."[/i])

 

Actually, it wasn't Obi-Wan that the Jedi were expressly journeying to Geonosis to aid -- their first tactical objective was to put paid to Count Dooku's plans to attack the Republic, rather than expending 200 Jedi on a single rescue attempt.

It's Padmé whom decides to take matters into her own hands and rescue Kenobi, once it's clear that he's only of secondary importance behind the primary goal of interdicting the Separatists. ("...He gave you strict orders to protect me, and I'm going to help Obi-Wan.")

So what was the difference between the Naboo invasion and the plans of Dooku on Geonosis? The Jedi went there to stop him from attacking the Republic, but were hesitant to act when the Federation blockaded and invaded Naboo, which is a Republic planet, and is the same as attacking the Republic itself. Their failure to act when a planet full of people is only made worse when they do decide act for what is the same thing, except when they know one of their own is in trouble.

 

Actually, I do agree with you -- they seem a bit...myopic and selfish, whenever the "greater good" is called into question, and seem to place a greater premium on satisfying their own individual interpretations of this. It's a very good point. (I was only clarifying just that one little side-bit, back there. )

 

Ahh, my mistake.

 

"They underestimated the Sith?"

You might say that.

The Jedi never expected the Sith to come this far and they let their own arrogance and their being out of touch with society blind them to the fact that Palpatine is the Sith Lord they were looking for and that Anakin is drawing closer to him.

Yoda realised this mistake and warned Luke to not follow suit like those before him have.

"Wouldn't the Sith, one of whom murdered a Jedi, be important enough to make Mace Windu stand up and walk around a bit?"


Why bother hunting for something that can't be found?

It would be a waste of time for the Jedi to send numerous knights all over the galaxy to find the Sith knowing that they won't find diddly squat. Once the Sith make their move, then the Jedi would be ready for them but the Sith were smart enough to not show themselves knowing that its reckless and could ruin any chance of taking over the universe which is why they hire other people such as bounty hunters and corrupt politicians to do their dirty work which would draw the Jedi's attention away from the Sith.

 

Why bother hunting for something that can't be found?

PMT, if they exist, then they can be found.

 

The problem is the "where" and "how" the Sith can be found.

The Jedi can't just automatically sense where the Sith are hiding at because their powers don't work like that. They need witnesses who know where to find the Sith and while the Trade Federation had dealings with the Sith, they don't know where to find them seeing as how they only spoke to Darth Sidious via hologram. They also need clues that might pinpoint to the Sith's whereabouts and there are no clues lying around since the Sith wisely covered their tracks.

Unless there are any witnesses or clues, then the Jedi can't find the Sith.

 

Clues? You mean like a Sith corpse? Soil samples from the boots, traces on the leather of his gloves, the fabric of his clothing, DNA, digestive sampling to see where his food came from, dental records, checking the contents of the pouches on his belt, saber construction, origin of its metal, his ship, his droids; yeah, the Jedi had nothing to work with.

 

"Soil samples from the boots, traces on the leather of his gloves, the fabric of his clothing, DNA, digestive sampling to see where his food came from, dental records, checking the contents of the pouches on his belt"

Ep.III - CSI:Coruscant

 

Some of those clues might be substantial but they still don't say who Maul's Sith Master is or where Maul and Sidious were located when it comes to training in the Jedi arts.

 

Why not? Tracing those would lead them back to Sidious

 

LOL good point LOCO

 

Unless Maul wiped his ships memory just after landing on Naboo, his ship should have a flight log that would be pretty damn beneficial to hunting down where he came from.

 

But remember, "the Dark Side clouds all."

 

Is that why I frequently have trouble remembering what I had for breakfast?

 

Sidious has a lot of hiding places to choose from, like that abandoned factory in AOTC so it wouldn't make a difference if the Jedi traced those clues to him because he'll still be out of sight before they can get to him.

 

I don't really think the Jedi are in their prime. They're shown as decadent, ineffective, and inefficient. There was no concern over the menace of the Sith, no progress made in their "investigations" over ten years, and they were not concerned with the goings on at Naboo yet are willing to spare no member in rescuing one Jedi on Geonosis.

They didn't go to Geonosis just to stop one Jedi from being killed. They went to Geonosis to try stop an intergalactic war from breaking out.

And I wouldn't call them "ineffective". In TPM Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon kick some serious droid a$$ throughout the entire movie. They only meet their match at the end with Darth Maul. During AOTC, the Jedi may have been defeated during the Arena Battle, but there were only about fifty or sixty Jedi in the Arena facing off against hundreds and hundreds of droids (Super Battle Droids and Destroyer Droids included - let's not forget those giant sonic cannons the Geonosians used).

As for their investigations into the Sith, what are they suppose to investigate with? Palpatine is so powerful that he can block them from "seeing" who he is. And as for Maul, he died before anybody could find out who he was or what he knew. What were they suppose to investigate upon?

 

PMT, do you honestly think that fugitive hunts depend on the fugitive staying in one place?

You might as well say we shouldn't try to catch Saddam or Osama because they'd be hard to find.

 

They didn't go to Geonosis just to stop one Jedi from being killed. They went to Geonosis to try stop an intergalactic war from breaking out.

Why didn't they do anything to prevent the invasion of Naboo? That would have been an attack on a soverign planet of the Republic, which is the same as attacking the Republic itself. Why did the Jedi rush to a deserted planet while allowing a planet fully populated be blockaded and seized?

And I wouldn't call them "ineffective". In TPM Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon kick some serious droid a$$ throughout the entire movie. They only meet their match at the end with Darth Maul. During AOTC, the Jedi may have been defeated during the Arena Battle, but there were only about fifty or sixty Jedi in the Arena facing off against hundreds and hundreds of droids (Super Battle Droids and Destroyer Droids included - let's not forget those giant sonic cannons the Geonosians used).

Maybe if the Republic had sent Gungans to Geonosis, the outcome would have been different. As we all know, Gungans are immune to harm from droid blasters.

As for their investigations into the Sith, what are they suppose to investigate with? Palpatine is so powerful that he can block them from "seeing" who he is. And as for Maul, he died before anybody could find out who he was or what he knew. What were they suppose to investigate upon?

Ahem:

Clues? You mean like a Sith corpse? Soil samples from the boots, traces on the leather of his gloves, the fabric of his clothing, DNA, digestive sampling to see where his food came from, dental records, checking the contents of the pouches on his belt, saber construction, origin of its metal, his ship, his droids; yeah, the Jedi had nothing to work with.

 

They didn't go to Geonosis just to stop one Jedi from being killed. They went to Geonosis to try stop an intergalactic war from breaking out.


Why didn't they do anything to prevent the invasion of Naboo? That would have been an attack on a soverign planet of the Republic, which is the same as attacking the Republic itself. Why did the Jedi rush to a deserted planet while allowing a planet fully populated be blockaded and seized?

When the Jedi were first sent to Naboo, they didn't know the Trade Federation planned to invade. They were told that they were simply going on a mission to solve a trading dispute. Had they known an invasion were at hand, more forces would have been sent. As for them going to Tatooine, err, did you watch the movie? Tatooine is near Naboo (probally only took a few hours/days to get there). Coruscant is the center of the Republic. Were they to travel to Coruscant without hyperdrive, it would take weeks. They needed to go to Tatooine to fix their cruiser to get to Coruscant.

And I wouldn't call them "ineffective". In TPM Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon kick some serious droid a$$ throughout the entire movie. They only meet their match at the end with Darth Maul. During AOTC, the Jedi may have been defeated during the Arena Battle, but there were only about fifty or sixty Jedi in the Arena facing off against hundreds and hundreds of droids (Super Battle Droids and Destroyer Droids included - let's not forget those giant sonic cannons the Geonosians used).

Maybe if the Republic had sent Gungans to Geonosis, the outcome would have been different. As we all know, Gungans are immune to harm from droid blasters.

Watch closely next time you watch the Gungan Battle. You'll find that many Gungans are shot down, and you'll see quite a few lying on the ground. The reason most people miss this and assume none die is because there are only a few moments where we see Gungans killed close-up, while a majority of the others are killed in far shots.

As for their investigations into the Sith, what are they suppose to investigate with? Palpatine is so powerful that he can block them from "seeing" who he is. And as for Maul, he died before anybody could find out who he was or what he knew. What were they suppose to investigate upon?

Ahem:

Clues? You mean like a Sith corpse? Soil samples from the boots, traces on the leather of his gloves, the fabric of his clothing, DNA, digestive sampling to see where his food came from, dental records, checking the contents of the pouches on his belt, saber construction, origin of its metal, his ship, his droids; yeah, the Jedi had nothing to work with.

By the slight chance you missed the ending of TPM, Darth Maul fell down a deep, deep, deep, deep...deep pit, to which there would be no possible way to retrieve him. There's also the fact that he fell down a MELTING pit

As for Maul's ship, Palpatine took care of it. Simply put, the Jedi had NOTHING to work with.

 

When the Jedi were first sent to Naboo, they didn't know the Trade Federation planned to invade. They were told that they were simply going on a mission to solve a trading dispute. Had they known an invasion were at hand, more forces would have been sent.

Didn't the Jedi have some eye witness accounts? I think Qui-gon and Obi-wan saw the droid army amassing and preparing for invasion, that was their point in following Binks to his city.

So yes, the Jedi did indeed know of the invasion on Naboo and still did nothing.

As for them going to Tatooine, err, did you watch the movie? Tatooine is near Naboo (probally only took a few hours/days to get there). Coruscant is the center of the Republic. Were they to travel to Coruscant without hyperdrive, it would take weeks. They needed to go to Tatooine to fix their cruiser to get to Coruscant.

I was referring to Geonosis, and the Jedi going over there to fight while letting Naboo be invaded.

And I wouldn't call them "ineffective". In TPM Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon kick some serious droid a$$ throughout the entire movie.

And from what we see in AOTC, they aren't indicative of the entire Council.

During AOTC, the Jedi may have been defeated during the Arena Battle, but there were only about fifty or sixty Jedi in the Arena facing off against hundreds and hundreds of droids (Super Battle Droids and Destroyer Droids included - let's not forget those giant sonic cannons the Geonosians used).

Yeah, the Gungans fought an army of droids with TANKS and all they had were shields and little bloopy balls filled with Nickelodeon Gak.

Watch closely next time you watch the Gungan Battle. You'll find that many Gungans are shot down, and you'll see quite a few lying on the ground. The reason most people miss this and assume none die is because there are only a few moments where we see Gungans killed close-up, while a majority of the others are killed in far shots.

One would think it would be the Gungans that got massacred in battle against the droids, not the "premier fighting force in the Galaxy." There are "many," but not many enough to be seen at least on screen or even close enough to be seen, as opposed to the Jedi, which littered the floor everywhere.

By the slight chance you missed the ending of TPM, Darth Maul fell down a deep, deep, deep, deep...deep pit, to which there would be no possible way to retrieve him.

Ohh, a deep hole.

Jedi 1: "He fell down that hole. Retrieving this evidence may lead us to the identity of the greatest foe the Galaxy has ever known."

Jedi 2: "Look at that thing. Naw, I don't wanna go down there. We'll just say the Dark Side clouded our vision."

Jedi 1: "Okay, works for me. Let's get some lunch."

There's also the fact that he fell down a MELTING pit

Is it now? Really? Well then, I must have missed the part where we are told that. I thought it was just a big bottomless pit of somesort.

As for Maul's ship, Palpatine took care of it. Simply put, the Jedi had NOTHING to work with.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold the phone. How do you know that?

 

Darth Geist-

Reread my post because I said that Sidious has A LOT of hiding places.

He not only hides in that abandoned factory, he also hides in his own apartment, the senate, and hell, he can even hide in plain sight by using the Dark Side to cloud the Jedi's vision so they don't detect him.

He also hides by disguising himself as Palpatine since he doesn't have to worry about anyone discovering that he's a Sith since the Jedi don't have a photo ID of Sidious.


Loco for Lucas-

"I think Qui-Gon and Obi-wan saw the droid army amassing and preparing for invasion, that was their point in following Binks to his city."

But that was after they were attacked by the Battledroids. Before then, they knew nothing of any invasion planned by the Trade Federation since they just boarded the droid control ship.

"So yes, the Jedi did indeed know of the invasion on Naboo and still did nothing."

Only Qui-Gon and Obi-wan knows about the invasion on Naboo but the other Jedi doesn't because like that representative for the Trade Federation said in the senate scene, Qui-Gon and Obi-wan "have no proof" to support their statements which is why they were sent back to Naboo by themselves.


"As for Maul's ship, Palpatine took care of it. Simply put, the Jedi had NOTHING to work with.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold the phone. How do you know that?"

You don't see Maul's ship anywhere, do you?

 

"Reread my post because I said that Sidious has A LOT of hiding places."

Yes, PMT. So does Saddam. So does Osama. So does any high-profile criminal.

You don't catch them by not trying. Saying "We might not succeed, so let's not even try" is as defeatist as it is pathetic, especially when the stakes are so high.

 

But that was after they were attacked by the Battledroids. Before then, they knew nothing of any invasion planned by the Trade Federation since they just boarded the droid control ship.

They saw the droid army in motion, as did we, seeing as how that was the action of their escape from the Control Ship. The issue at hand was an orbital blockade and its legality, any combat weapons such as droids, tanks, and transports can mean only one thing, invasion.

Only Qui-Gon and Obi-wan knows about the invasion on Naboo but the other Jedi doesn't because like that representative for the Trade Federation said in the senate scene, Qui-Gon and Obi-wan "have no proof" to support their statements which is why they were sent back to Naboo by themselves.

As I mentioned long ago, wouldn't the Jedi have some sort of camera for field work? Dealing with people as shady as the Federation, you would figure Qui-gon would have a holocam handy in his belt, should he need to back up what he says later on. I mean, geez, they had underwater breathing aparatuses in their belts for "just such an occassion," but why not a camera? There would be more of a chance of needing that than a snorkel.

You don't see Maul's ship anywhere, do you?

Apparently the Jedi are too dumb to find it, seeing as how they don't bother looking and instead head right towards the celebration. And this was BEFORE Palpatine arrived. So, how do you KNOW Palpatine 'took care of it?'

 

Darth Geist-

It is not that simple to find a high-profile criminal because they are nothing like the common crooks who robs grocery stores and go on high-speed chases to avoid the police.

That kind of approach is sloppy, reckless, and idiotic so no real high-profile criminal would go for that because they make a plan before they strike and they don't leave behind any footprints or evidence.

If it were that simple to find Saddam Hussein or Osama Bin Laden, they would have been found already and the same goes for those weapons of mass destruction but unfortunantly, our US troops haven't found diddly squat just as the Jedi haven't a clue as to who Darth Sidious is or where they can find him.

Loco for Lucas-

"They saw a droid army in motion, as did we, seeing as how that was the action of their escape from the Control Ship."

Your still talking about after they were attacked.

When they first boarded the ship, all they saw was a bunch of droids roaming about which is not enough to envoke any suspicions of an invasion being planned until the ambush.

"The issue at hand was an orbital blockade
and its legality, any combat weapons such as droids, tanks, and transports can mean only one thing, invasion."

Aside from the droids, neither Qui-Gon nor Obi-wan saw such items onboard the ship until after they were gassed and being attacked by the battledroids. All they know about the blockade is that the Trade Federation is protesting against the Republic's decision to post trade routes to outlying star systems.

Nothing about that screams the word INVASION.

"As I mentioned long ago, wouldn't the Jedi have some sort of camera for field work? Dealing with people as shady as the Federation, you would figure Qui-Gon would have a holocam handy in his belt, should he need to back up what he says later on."

The Jedi don't approve of such technology, not when they have the force as their ally. Case in point, Darth Vader(I know he's a Sith but he used to be a Jedi) on his disapproval of the Death Star:

"Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force."

Besides, what do they need a camera for? They're not on vacation shooting sceneries or the places they're hanging out.

"And this was BEFORE Palpatine arrived. So, how do you KNOW Palpatine "took care of it"?"

Maybe he had forseen the fact that Maul would be killed by Obi-wan so he had some sort of long-transmission device that would make Maul's ship invisible.