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lack of danger=lack of drama

Discussion in 'Archive: The Phantom Menace' started by jariten, Jul 29, 2003.

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  1. Jedi knight Pozzi

    Jedi knight Pozzi Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 2, 2000
    `Clues? You mean like a Sith corpse? Soil samples from the boots, traces on the leather of his gloves, the fabric of his clothing, DNA, digestive sampling to see where his food came from, dental records, checking the contents of the pouches on his belt, saber construction, origin of its metal, his ship, his droids; yeah, the Jedi had nothing to work with.'

    If he came from the Outer Rim, then yes, they had nothing to work with. Kenobi was lucky that he knew Dex and that Dex knew of the darts origins. That leaves the Trade Federation, and they have a good friend in a very high place. Palpatine managed to stop each trial they had. Evidence would mean little after his advancment.
     
  2. Darth Geist

    Darth Geist Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 1999
    If it were that simple to find Saddam Hussein or Osama Bin Laden, they would have been found already and the same goes for those weapons of mass destruction but unfortunantly, our US troops haven't found diddly squat just as the Jedi haven't a clue as to who Darth Sidious is or where they can find him.

    By "diddly squat," I assume you mean "Both of Saddam's most prominent sons, 43 of his 52 cabinet members, entire divisions' worth of banned weapons and equipment, hundreds of ammo stockpiles, two-thirds of Osama's top officers and hundreds of his followers." But other than that, they haven't found much.

    Now, consider the difficulties they had in finding Uday and Qusay Hussein; the two of them had hiding places around the country, ties to many prominent families, and an entire party of loyalists to back them up. Nonetheless, through persistence and skill, the U.S. tracked them down.

    Are you saying we'd have found more by doing absolutely nothing? Do you think the FBI tracks people down by doing nothing, or by giving up before making any effort at all? Do you think anyone accomplishes anything by throwing in the towel at the first sign of any possible difficulty?

    Maybe he had forseen the fact that Maul would be killed by Obi-wan so he had some sort of long-transmission device that would make Maul's ship invisible.

    [face_laugh]

    [face_laugh]

    [face_laugh]

    Thanks, PMT. I needed that.
     
  3. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2003
    PMT99-
    Only Qui-Gon and Obi-wan knows about the invasion on Naboo but the other Jedi doesn't because like that representative for the Trade Federation said in the senate scene, Qui-Gon and Obi-wan "have no proof" to support their statements which is why they were sent back to Naboo by themselves.

    This is a point I've never understood - ObiWan and QGJ are proof of the invasion, they've seen it. Why don't they give evidence in the Senate?

    And The Jedi Council obviously believes QGJ regarding the Sith, they tell him to return to Naboo to discover the secret of the Sith warrior - so why not send more Jedi? I mean a Sith returning is a pretty big deal.
    Isn't it?

    g
     
  4. Loco_for_Lucas

    Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2002
    Your still talking about after they were attacked.

    When they first boarded the ship, all they saw was a bunch of droids roaming about which is not enough to envoke any suspicions of an invasion being planned until the ambush.

    Aside from the droids, neither Qui-Gon nor Obi-wan saw such items onboard the ship until after they were gassed and being attacked by the battledroids. All they know about the blockade is that the Trade Federation is protesting against the Republic's decision to post trade routes to outlying star systems.


    I suppose the Federation tried to kill them for the sake of hospitality; no need for suspicion there. :p

    Nothing about that screams the word INVASION.


    Qui-gon: Battle droids.
    Obi-wan: It's an invasion army.
    Qui-gon: It's an odd play for the Trade Federation. We've got to warn the Naboo and contact Chancellor Valorum. Let's split up; stow aboard the ships and meet down on the planet.
    Obi-wan: You were right about one thing, Master. The negotiations were short.

    The Jedi don't approve of such technology, not when they have the force as their ally. Case in point, Darth Vader(I know he's a Sith but he used to be a Jedi) on his disapproval of the Death Star:

    "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force."


    I think there's a difference between a hand-held camera and an orbital space station that destroys entire planets. Besides, these are the same Jedi who use technology in testing for the Force; not only that, but they have technological tools in their belts, like communicators and breathing aparatuses, and not to mention a hanger filled with starfighters. So much for their frowning on technology. :p

    Besides, what do they need a camera for? They're not on vacation shooting sceneries or the places they're hanging out.


    lol

    Nope, then again, why did they need breathing aparatuses in their belts? They weren't going to the beach. :p

    Maybe he had forseen the fact that Maul would be killed by Obi-wan so he had some sort of long-transmission device that would make Maul's ship invisible.


    [face_laugh]
     
  5. Lord_Hydronium

    Lord_Hydronium Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2002
    I suppose the Federation tried to kill them for the sake of hospitality; no need for suspicion there.

    Qui-gon: Battle droids.
    Obi-wan: It's an invasion army.
    Qui-gon: It's an odd play for the Trade Federation. We've got to warn the Naboo and contact Chancellor Valorum. Let's split up; stow aboard the ships and meet down on the planet.
    Obi-wan: You were right about one thing, Master. The negotiations were short.


    I wonder, does actually reading posts take too much work? If you had taken the time to do that, you might have caught these subtle phrases:

    When the Jedi were first sent to Naboo, they didn't know the Trade Federation planned to invade.

    Before then, they knew nothing of any invasion planned by the Trade Federation since they just boarded the droid control ship.

    When they first boarded the ship, all they saw was a bunch of droids roaming about which is not enough to envoke any suspicions of an invasion being planned until the ambush.

    Aside from the droids, neither Qui-Gon nor Obi-wan saw such items onboard the ship until after they were gassed and being attacked by the battledroids.

    Now, maybe you missed all of those comments about "before the invasion". Every quote and mention you've just made are events that took place after the invasion. I'll say it again to make it more clear: after the invasion. Before the invasion, the Jedi didn't know that the TF was planning to invade. Therefore, they couldn't really prevent it, hm? Hard to take action against an invasion you don't even knwo is coming. However, on Geonosis, no military action had been taken against the Republic yet. They still had time to prevent it. Because, you see, they learned about the plans before the actual attack.
     
  6. Loco_for_Lucas

    Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2002
    I wonder, does actually reading posts take too much work? If you had taken the time to do that, you might have caught these subtle phrases:

    When the Jedi were first sent to Naboo, they didn't know the Trade Federation planned to invade.

    Before then, they knew nothing of any invasion planned by the Trade Federation since they just boarded the droid control ship.

    When they first boarded the ship, all they saw was a bunch of droids roaming about which is not enough to envoke any suspicions of an invasion being planned until the ambush.

    Aside from the droids, neither Qui-Gon nor Obi-wan saw such items onboard the ship until after they were gassed and being attacked by the battledroids.

    Now, maybe you missed all of those comments about "before the invasion". Every quote and mention you've just made are events that took place after the invasion. I'll say it again to make it more clear: after the invasion. Before the invasion, the Jedi didn't know that the TF was planning to invade. Therefore, they couldn't really prevent it, hm? Hard to take action against an invasion you don't even knwo is coming. However, on Geonosis, no military action had been taken against the Republic yet. They still had time to prevent it. Because, you see, they learned about the plans before the actual attack.


    And I suppose it would be too much effort for you to realize that my point is the Jedi did nothing AFTER discovering the invading army. What they knew before going to Naboo is irrelevent, but after they found out, nothing was done about it.
     
  7. Quixotic-Sith

    Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2001
    Tone down the condescension, folks.
     
  8. Loco_for_Lucas

    Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2002
    Aye aye, mon capitan. :p
     
  9. AdamBertocci

    AdamBertocci Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2002
    This is a point I've never understood - ObiWan and QGJ are proof of the invasion, they've seen it. Why don't they give evidence in the Senate?

    As the crawl tells us, Valorum SECRETLY dispatched the Jedi.

    If Obi-Wan and QGJ gave testimony to the Senate, it would inform the Senate that Valorum had gone behind their backs. This would have gotten Valorum and the Republic into even more trouble than it already was.

    Now, we know for a fact Palpatine knew the Jedi had been sent ("Where are the Chancellor's ambassadors?", etc. etc. ... plus the fact that he is Sidious. LOL!) So he knew that the Jedi speaking up would alert the Senate that Valorum had abused his power.
    When it became evident to him that the Jedi were too smart to give away their position (they failed to negotiate, so just forget it happened), he was fortunately (for him) able to get Valorum out through an alternate method...



    This sort of thing is my basic problem with TPM. The plot is good and interesting and all, but people don't WANT a complex or thought-provoking plot line from SW. We go to SW to get away from all that crap and see exciting spaceship chases and peppy one-liners. I should not have to be confused by a Star Wars movie. *sigh* I mean, ESB, the "intelligent" OT movie, was just a long chase with a Muppet interlude. Keep it simple, George.



    Rick McCallum loves you!
     
  10. SkottASkywalker

    SkottASkywalker Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2002
    lack of danger=lack of drama

    While I agree, there was plenty of danger and drama in THE PHANTOM MENACE.
     
  11. PMT99

    PMT99 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 23, 2000
    "And I suppose it would be too much effort for you to realize that my point is the Jedi did nothing AFTER discovering the invading army."

    And just what were Qui-Gon and Obi-wan suppose to do? They can't wipe out the entire invading army knowing that it would be suicide and the other Jedi on Coruscant cannot get involved due to the reasons Adam Bertocci pointed out.

    Gezvader28-

    "And the Jedi Council obviously believes QGJ regarding the Sith, they tell him to return to Naboo to discover the secret of the Sith warrior - so why not send more Jedi? I mean a Sith returning is a pretty big deal. Isn't it?"

    You've just answered your own question.

    If the Jedi really believed Qui-Gon about the Sith's return, then they would have sent more Jedi to go with Qui-Gon back to Naboo instead of sending him back alone. Their arrogance in believing the Sith to be extinct after Qui-Gon made the report is what got him killed.

    Adam Bertocci-

    "This sort of thing is my basic problem with TPM. The plot is good and interesting and all, but people don't want a complex or thought-provoking plot line from SW. We go to SW to get away from all that crap and see exciting spaceship chases and peppy one-liners."

    This is the main reason why the prequals as a whole are misunderstood and unfairly criticized. People expect to see the same stuff(spaceship chases, peppy one-liners) they saw in the OT that they end up being disappointed when it's not in the films. They don't realise that TPM and most of AOTC is suppose to take place in the "civilised age" and none of the mentioned stuff is suppose to happen until the galaxy has entered the "dark times" which will happen in Episode 3.
     
  12. Darth Geist

    Darth Geist Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 1999
    "And I suppose it would be too much effort for you to realize that my point is the Jedi did nothing AFTER discovering the invading army."

    And just what were Qui-Gon and Obi-wan suppose to do?


    The Jedi as a whole, PMT. Not two of them.

    If the Jedi really believed Qui-Gon about the Sith's return, then they would have sent more Jedi to go with Qui-Gon back to Naboo instead of sending him back alone. Their arrogance in believing the Sith to be extinct after Qui-Gon made the report is what got him killed.

    So they believe that the dark warrior's identity is "the clue they need to unravel the mystery of the Sith," but they don't believe in the Sith? This ain't rocket science, PMT.

    They don't realise that TPM and most of AOTC is suppose to take place in the "civilised age" and none of the mentioned stuff is suppose to happen until the galaxy has entered the "dark times" which will happen in Episode 3.

    One, "civilized" doesn't mean "stiff" or "aloof." Two, I question the idea that once an evil dictator rises to power, crushes all opposition underfoot and opresses the galaxy with an iron fist, that's when the party starts. Was Stalinist Russia a land of fun and adventure?
     
  13. PMT99

    PMT99 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 23, 2000
    "The Jedi as a whole, PMT. Not two of them."

    Read Adam Bertocci's post concerning that issue, Geist.

    The Jedi were never supposed to be involved PERIOD because the senate never authorised them to investigate the Trade Federation's blockade over Naboo. If the Senate learned about Obi-wan and Qui-Gon's involvement, not only would Valorum get in trouble but so will the Jedi. They will lose the Senate's trust in them and will give them a reason to have the entire Jedi Order disbanded if they so much as go behind their backs.

    "So they believe that the dark warrior's identity is the "clue they needed to unravel the mystery of the Sith", but they don't believe in the Sith? This ain't rocket science, PMT."

    Actually, they don't believe in the Sith being "still alive" for a millennium because if they did believe Qui-Gon when he said that the dark warrior was a Sith Lord, they would never have sent him back alone. It took Qui-Gon's death and Darth Maul's defeat to make the Council realise that Qui-Gon was telling the truth which is evident in his funeral:

    "There's no doubt that the mysterious warrior is a Sith."

    " "civilised" doesn't mean "stiff" and "aloof". "

    It doesn't mean "insane" and "overactive" either. As for your second response, that's not what I mean. I said that people expecting to see the same antics that came from Luke, Leia, and Han are sorely mistaken because that type of stuff isn't appropriate for what takes place in the prequals.
     
  14. ShaakRider

    ShaakRider Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2002
    As the crawl tells us, Valorum SECRETLY dispatched the Jedi.
    Now, that makes the least sense of all. The Jedi are the keepers of order and peace. So why dispatch them SECRETLY? Isn't it exactly what they are for? What does it have to do with the Senate? In what possible way can it be illegal?
    And secretly from whom? The Naboo knew about it. The TF knew there'll be ambassadors, they just didn't know they'll be Jedi. How long could that remain "secret"? Let' assume the negotiations took place, do you really think the Senate wouldn't find out about the 2 Jedi?
     
  15. PMT99

    PMT99 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 23, 2000
    "The Jedi are the keepers of order and peace. So why dispatch them SECRETLY?"

    How about "They were not authorised by the Senate to go to Naboo" for 500, Alex?

    "What does it have to do with the Senate?"

    The Jedi takes orders from the Senate.

    "In what possible way can it be illegal?"

    The Senate would see the Jedi's involvement as an abuse of power and the Republic would be viewed in a bad light by every star system. As Anakin mentioned in AOTC, the senators would want to discuss the problems in order to resolve them and to them, having the Jedi involved would only push things out of control.

    "And secretly from whom?"

    From the Senate!

    Valorum knows that they won't be able to resolve anything with words which is why he SECRETLY dispatched Qui-Gon and Obi-wan.

    "Let's assume the negotiations took place, do you really think the Senate wouldn't find out about the 2 Jedi?"

    No, because Qui-Gon and Obi-wan will not reveal themselves to the Senate.
     
  16. ShaakRider

    ShaakRider Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2002
    The Jedi takes orders from the Senate.
    Seems like they take orders from the Supreme Chancellor and have a sort of autonomy too. Sure both the Jedi and the SC are responsible to the Senate, but it'd be insane if every move of theirs would have to be authorized by the Senate. They weren't authorized by he Senate to protect Padme or go to Kamino either.

    The Senate would see the Jedi's involvement as an abuse of power and the Republic would be viewed in a bad light by every star system. As Anakin mentioned in AOTC, the senators would want to discuss the problems in order to resolve them and to them, having the Jedi involved would only push things out of control.
    OMG, Naboo is under BLOCKADE! Things already are out of control. And what abuse? They went there to negotiate. Yeah, i guess in a Republic where blockading a planet is perfectly legal, sending some Jedi, who are exactly for solving matters like that, to settle the conflict is most naturally illegal and abuse of power [face_laugh]

    "Let's assume the negotiations took place, do you really think the Senate wouldn't find out about the 2 Jedi?"

    No, because Qui-Gon and Obi-wan will not reveal themselves to the Senate

    Well, there are several other ways the Senate could come to know about them. OK, I'm not saying there would be no way to keep it secret, but there was a great chance it'd be discovered. And i still don't see why would Valorum make a secret of it in the first place.
     
  17. Darth Geist

    Darth Geist Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 1999
    I can just imagine this scene taking place in the Jedi briefing room:

    "Your assignment is to negotiate a settlement with the Federation. Don't let anyone know you're there, don't bother reporting anything you see, and for the love of the Force, don't do anything; we don't want to abuse our power."

    And the debriefing:

    "What? You saved the queen? We're not supposed to do anything! What? Liberate her planet? What do you think we are, the guardians of peace and justice? Get out of here; I've got some sitting around and frowning to do."

    Actually, they don't believe in the Sith being "still alive" for a millennium because if they did believe Qui-Gon when he said that the dark warrior was a Sith Lord, they would never have sent him back alone. It took Qui-Gon's death and Darth Maul's defeat to make the Council realise that Qui-Gon was telling the truth which is evident in his funeral:

    I'll say it again, PMT:

    Mystery. Of. The Sith.

    There may have been doubt before Qui's death, but even then, when a dark warrior with a lightsaber and Force powers shows up, the first of his kind in over a thousand years, it warrants more than a casual dismissal.

    " "civilised" doesn't mean "stiff" and "aloof". "

    It doesn't mean "insane" and "overactive" either.


    Um... what? [face_laugh]

    Of course, when your definition of "overactive" seems to apply to anyone who actually does anything...

    As for your second response, that's not what I mean. I said that people expecting to see the same antics that came from Luke, Leia, and Han are sorely mistaken because that type of stuff isn't appropriate for what takes place in the prequals.

    But they are appropriate for a time of oppression and sorrow. Okay.

    "Let's assume the negotiations took place, do you really think the Senate wouldn't find out about the 2 Jedi?"

    No, because Qui-Gon and Obi-wan will not reveal themselves to the Senate.


    But they already revealed themselves to both the Feds and the Naboo. The secret is out.
     
  18. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2003
    PMT
    If the Senate learned about Obi-wan and Qui-Gon's involvement, not only would Valorum get in trouble but so will the Jedi. They will lose the Senate's trust in them and will give them a reason to have the entire Jedi Order disbanded if they so much as go behind their backs.

    And yet they do it again in the second half of the film! So, according to you, Obi and QG went to Naboo twice without approval of the Senate, and both times they were risking having the Jedi Order disbanded by doing so. Huh?

    And - the JC don't even believe QG when he tells them about the Sith returning. So the JC are going behind the Senate's backs by sending Jedi back to Naboo, and they pick the guy they don't even believe is telling the truth. ???



    g
     
  19. anidanami124

    anidanami124 Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 24, 2002
    OMG, Naboo is under BLOCKADE! Things already are out of control. And what abuse? They went there to negotiate. Yeah, i guess in a Republic where blockading a planet is perfectly legal, sending some Jedi, who are exactly for solving matters like that, to settle the conflict is most naturally illegal and abuse of power

    When the senate does not know yaeh it is illegal.

    Know let's take a look at some lines here.

    Obi-wan Is is their nature to amke us wait this long

    Qui-gon: No...I sense an unusual amoung of fear for something as trivial as this trade dispute.

    Darth Sidious: We must accelerate our plans. Begin landing your troops.

    Nute: Ahhh, My Lord, is that...legal?

    Sidious: I will make it legal.


    And the opening craw:
    Turmoil has engulfed the Galactic Republic. The taxation of trade routes to outlying star systems is in dispute.

    Hoping to resolve the matter with a blockade of deadly battleships, the greedy Trade Federation has stopped all shipping to and from the small planet of Naboo.

    While the Congress of the Republic endlessly debates this alarming chain of events, the Supreme Chancellor has secretly dispatched two Jedi Knights, the guardians of peace, to settle the conflict...


    So what do we know so far from this.
    A) The TF has a blockade because of the taxation of the trade routes. Which is in dispute. The Republic is debating as to what to do about this. The Chancellor want's something done about. So he has to go behind the senate. So do the Jedi. Because The Republic is still debating about it and did not agree to anything about sending Jedi.

    But what The Jedi, The Chancellor, and The Senate don't know is that the TF is really planing on taking over Naboo. That's where Qui-Gon's line comes in:

    No...I sense an unusual amoung of fear for something as trivial as this trade dispute.

    But it's not over a trade dispute/blockade. So who's know's the Jedi are there? Naboo, the TF, and the Jedi. If the Jedi would have been killed it would have went the way Palpatine wanted it to go.

    Once the TF took over Naboo he would get The Chancellor out of offeic and then play of what has happened to Naboo to getin power. It was just luck that the Jedi happened to come and save Padme and bring her to Coruscant.

    So why send Maul? Because he wanted the treaty. Because Palpaitne woudl use it to gain power. But again because Padme showed up he used her to get the power a lot faster. He got the Chancellor out of power and himself in power.

    If you really sit down and look at it. Palpaitne and Maul are playing ever one for fouls. The Senate has no idea what Palpaitne is doing. The Jedi have no idea that the Sith are back. They also have no idea Palpaitne is a sith because he is so powerful that he hides his true power.


     
  20. PMT99

    PMT99 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 23, 2000
    "Seems like they take orders from the Supreme Chancellor and have a sort of autonomy too."

    The Supreme Chancellor gets his power from the Senate. If not, then Valorum wouldn't have been booted from his position and Palpatine wouldn't have been able to "create a grand army for the Republic" so if the Jedi takes orders from the SC, then technically, they are taking orders from the Senate.

    "OMG, Naboo is under BLOCKADE! Things are already out of control."

    The Senate doesn't know that. If they had, they wouldn't have asked Queen Amidala to prove her allegations about the Trade Federation's blockade over Naboo.

    "And what abuse?"

    Let's see....sending a group of powerful, yet spiritual warriors to settle a conflict would, as Mace Windu puts it, "put pressure on the Trade Federation and could widen the conflict" and we've already seen that happen in the movie.

    "And i still don't see why would Valorum make a secret of it in the first place."

    Because he's been mired with "baseless accusations" like Palpatine said and should the Senate ever find out about his secret dispatchment of 2 Jedi, then it's time to vote for a new Chancellor.

    Darth Geist-

    "I can just imagine this scene taking place in the Jedi breifing room:

    "Your assignment is to negotiate a settlement with the Federation. Don't let anyone know you're there, don't bother reporting anything you see, and for the love of the Force, don't do anything; we don't want to abuse our power."

    and the debriefing:

    "What? You saved the queen? We're not supposed to do anything! What? Liberate her planet? What do you think we are, the guardians of peace and justice? Get out of here; I've got some sitting around and frowing to do." "

    Okay, now you're just exaggerating.

    Just because the Jedi couldn't let the Senate know of their involvement doesn't mean they couldn't help Amidala or the people of Naboo.

    "I'll say it again, PMT:

    Mystery. Of. The Sith.

    There may have been doubt before Qui's death, but even then, when a dark warrior with a lightsaber and Force powers shows up, the first of his kind in over a thousand years, it warrants more than a casual dismissal."

    But they were NOT on Tatooine when Qui-Gon got jumped by Darth Maul so they don't know if he's telling the truth. They only referred to Maul as an "attacker" or "dark warrior" but they never called him a "Sith Lord" so for all they know, Qui-Gon is pulling a fast one with them again and since they have a history with Qui-Gon's defiance, his words don't mean jack to them which is why he was sent back alone.

    "Um...what? :D

    Of course, when your definition of "overactive" seems to apply to anyone who actually does anything..."

    Actually, they do a lot of things. You're too busy nitpicking stuff to see it.

    "But they are appropriate for a time of oppression and sorrow. Okay."

    Don't twist my words, man.

    I'm not suggesting people should have parties or go on adventures during a period of oppression and sorrow. I'm saying that the characters in the prequals shouldn't act like "roguish smugglers, violent-prone princesses, or whiny farmboys" because those kinds of behavior are innapropriate for the prequal era.

    "But they already revealed themselves to both the Feds and the Naboo."

    But the Feds aren't going to tell the Senate about the Jedi's involvement knowing that it'll also expose their "occupation" on Naboo. As for the Naboo, whether or not they knew is irrelevent because it still didn't convince the Republic to get off their high horses and deal with the Feds.

    Gezvader28-

    "And yet they do it again in the second half of the film! So, according to you, Obi and QG went to Naboo twice without approval of the Senate, and both times they were risking having the Jedi Order disbanded by doing so. Huh?"

    It wasn't their idea, it was Valorum's. Plus, the Senate is too busy debating and voting for a new Supreme Chancellor to even care.

    "And - the JC don't even believe QG when he tells them about the Sith returning. So the JC are goin
     
  21. ShaakRider

    ShaakRider Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2002
    The Supreme Chancellor gets his power from the Senate. If not, then Valorum wouldn't have been booted from his position and Palpatine wouldn't have been able to "create a grand army for the Republic" so if the Jedi takes orders from the SC, then technically, they are taking orders from the Senate.

    Getting his power from the Senate is very far from having to inform the Senate about his every move and ask for they approval. So, taking orders from the SC is also far from taking orders from the Senate.

    The Senate doesn't know that. If they had, they wouldn't have asked Queen Amidala to prove her allegations about the Trade Federation's blockade over Naboo.
    The Senate does know. Nute Gunray says something about that the blockade is perfectly legal and they wouldn't to anything without that approval of the Senate (which is utterly absurd in itself, how can a blockade be legal?). They asked Amidala to prove the invasion, not the blockade.

    sending a group of powerful, yet spiritual warriors to settle a conflict would, as Mace Windu puts it, "put pressure on the Trade Federation and could widen the conflict" and we've already seen that happen in the movie
    But settling conflicts like that is the regular job of those "powerful yet spiritual warriors". Or what else do you think "keepers of peace and order" would mean?
     
  22. Darth Geist

    Darth Geist Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 1999
    The Senate doesn't know that. If they had, they wouldn't have asked Queen Amidala to prove her allegations about the Trade Federation's blockade over Naboo.

    Funny; the opening crawl didn't say, "While the Senate endlessly debates this alarming chain of events (that they don't know about)..."

    As ShaakRider points out, they demanded proof of the invasion; the blockade was common knowledge from the start.

    so for all they know, Qui-Gon is pulling a fast one with them again and since they have a history with Qui-Gon's defiance, his words don't mean jack to them which is why he was sent back alone.

    ...So on a crucial mission, a mission you claim could have unraveled their entire order if mishandled, they sent a guy they didn't trust and told him not to do anything. They then pretended to believe him, sending him back out for "the clue we need to unravel the mystery of the Sith."

    But the Feds aren't going to tell the Senate about the Jedi's involvement knowing that it'll also expose their "occupation" on Naboo.

    Once again, the blockade is a matter of public record.

    It wasn't their idea, it was Valorum's.

    Valorum couldn't have sent them out the second time. Not only was he out of office, but if he did send the Jedi some last-minute memo, there's nothing in the film to suggest it.

    I'm not suggesting people should have parties or go on adventures during a period of oppression and sorrow.

    But the OT characters do. If they can do it then, they can do it anytime, even in a more civilized age. Again, "civilized" doesn't mean sterile or dull?and what was that "it doesn't mean insane" business about? I still want to know.

     
  23. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999
    This whole thread is off topic. This discussion should be held in a forum for a movie that actually lacked danger or drama.
     
  24. ShaakRider

    ShaakRider Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2002
    How about
    lack of a well established conflict = lack of drama
    lack of characters caring about the situation or each other = lack of drama?

    EDIT:
    no, I don't think the movie is completely lack of this things, therefore I do think it has its moments of drama. I just think it's far from satisfying.
     
  25. anidanami124

    anidanami124 Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 24, 2002
    Funny; the opening crawl didn't say, "While the Senate endlessly debates this alarming chain of events (that they don't know about)..."

    They really did not know what was going on. They only thought it was a Trade dispute. They had no idea the TF was going to take over Naboo. Which is why they asked the Queen if they could go and see if it was true.

    Only the Jedi knew what was really going on. They could not tell because if they did The Senate would find out that the Chancellor went behind there backs and he would be kicked out.

    The Chancellor knows what is really going on on Naboo. But his hands are tied. Adn your right that line was in the opening crawl. But ask yourself what did the Senate know wat the time? They knew that the TF set up a blockaide. That's all they knew. So the debated about it.
     
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