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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

lack of danger=lack of drama

Discussion in 'Archive: The Phantom Menace' started by jariten, Jul 29, 2003.

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  1. Strilo

    Strilo Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Go-Mer: Let the mods decide that.

     
  2. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2003
    PMT
    But they were NOT on Tatooine when Qui-Gon got jumped by Darth Maul so they don't know if he's telling the truth. They only referred to Maul as an "attacker" or "dark warrior" but they never called him a "Sith Lord" so for all they know, Qui-Gon is pulling a fast one with them again and since they have a history with Qui-Gon's defiance, his words don't mean jack to them which is why he was sent back alone.


    So the JC are going behind the Senate's backs by sending Jedi back to Naboo (and risking having the Jedi disbanded according to you) , and they pick the guy they don't even believe is telling the truth.??? That makes no sense.

    Why would the JC trust a guy with such a delicate mission (and the fate of the Jedi order) if they didn't trust him? And if they don't believe him why does Mace say:
    "This is the clue we need to unravel the mystery of the Sith." ?



    g
     
  3. PMT99

    PMT99 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 23, 2000
    "Getting his power from the Senate is very far from having to inform the Senate about his every move and ask for they approval."

    Tell that to Valorum.

    "So, taking orders from the SC is also far from taking orders from the Senate."

    But the SC can't create laws or pass orders without the approval of the Senate so it's NOT far from taking orders from the Senate.

    "The Senate does know. Nute Gunray says something about that the blockade is perfectly legal and they wouldn't do anything without the approval of the Senate (which is utterly ubsurd in itself, how can a blockade be legal?) They asked Amidala to prove the invasion, not the blockade."

    The blockade is a part of the invasion plans and the Senate would not be too busy debating while this happened if they did know. Plus, Gunray was lying about the blockade being legal because there would be no reason for him to question its legality to Darth Sidious.

    "But settling conflicts like that is the regular job of those "powerful yet spiritual warriors". Or what else do you think "keepers of peace and order" would mean?"

    Negotiatiors and peace talkers, not soldiers or warmongerors.

    The Jedi's presence alone only escalate the conflict and the Senate didn't want it to go as far as it did since they believe that the situation with the Trade Feds is just a big misunderstanding, not a real conflict which is why they never authorized any Jedi to go to Naboo.

    Darth Geist-

    "Funny; the opening crawl didn't say, "While the Senate endlessly debates this alarming chain of events (that they didn't know about)..." "

    Neither did it say, "While the Senate is aware of the Trade Federation's blockade over Naboo, they still debate this alarming chain of events." If the blockade was already common knowledge, the Feds would've gotten in big trouble already but as it is, the blockade is NOT common knowledge.

    "So on a crucial mission, a mission you claim could have unraveled their entire order if mishandled, they sent a guy they didn't trust and told him not to do anything. They then pretended to believe him, sending him back out for "the clue we need to unravel the mystery of the Sith."

    What choice do they have? Just because they didn't trust Qui-Gon doesn't mean he isn't qualified for the mission. Plus, they sent him back to "draw out the Queen's attacker" and to "unravel the mystery of this dark warrior."

    None of the bolded words have anything to do with the Sith.

    "Once again, the blockade is a matter of public record."

    Again, if it was, the Trade Feds would've answered their crimes to the Supreme court much earlier instead of during the 10-year gap between TPM and AOTC.

    "Valorum couldn't have sent them out the second time. Not only was he out of office, but if he did send the Jedi some last-minute memo, there's nothing in the film to suggest it."

    Palpatine already knew about Valorum's secret dispatchment of 2 Jedi but that didn't matter now that Valorum's out of office but he isn't going to expose the Jedi knowing that he risked having unwanted questions from Amidala and her staff which would reveal his Sith identity and his ties to the Trade Federation.

    It wasn't worth having hundreads of Jedi down his throat.

    "But the OT characters do. If they can do it anytime, even in a more civilized age. Again, "civilized" doesn't mean sterile or dull-and what was that "it doesn't mean insane" business about?"

    The "insane business" is what the OT characters did in their films and it's not appropriate for the prequals because there was no oppression or sorrow during the civilized age due to the fact that the Jedi are in charge, the Republic is running things, and the bad guys are hiding in shadows.

    The prequals represented the medival period while the classic trilogy is more like today's period.

    Gezvader28-

    "So the JC are going behind the Senate's backs by sending Jedi back to Naboo (and risking having the Jedi disbanded according to you), and they pick the guy they don't believe is telling the truth???
     
  4. anidanami124

    anidanami124 Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 24, 2002
    The blockade is a part of the invasion plans and the Senate would not be too busy debating while this happened if they did know. Plus, Gunray was lying about the blockade being legal because there would be no reason for him to question its legality to Darth Sidious.

    If we read the line Nute was not asking aobut the blockade he was asking buy if landing the troops was llegal.

    Sidious: This trun of events is unfortunate. We must accelerate our plans Viceroy. Begin landing your troops.

    Sidious said nothing there about a blockade.

    Nute: Ahhh, My Lord, is that...legal?

    He was asking about them landing troops there.


    If the blockade was already common knowledge, the Feds would've gotten in big trouble already but as it is, the blockade is NOT common knowledge.

    Ok I think people are missing something here. The Senate/Congress of the Republic know about the blockade. What they don't know about is that the TF is planing on landing troops on Naboo.
     
  5. Darth Geist

    Darth Geist Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 1999
    Ani is right about the blockade, PMT, and don't forget that at least three other people can corroborate Qui-Gon's story about Maul. (Not to mention that the ship clearly has cameras). Also, once again, you ignore what Mace said about the Sith; would you only be convinced if he added the word Sith to every sentence?

    As far as the SC's power is concerned, recall that Palpatine passes an executive order (for Padme's departure) with no need at all for the Senate's approval.

    [Me:]

    "Valorum couldn't have sent them out the second time. Not only was he out of office, but if he did send the Jedi some last-minute memo, there's nothing in the film to suggest it."

    [You:]

    Palpatine already knew about Valorum's secret dispatchment of 2 Jedi but that didn't matter now that Valorum's out of office but he isn't going to expose the Jedi knowing that he risked having unwanted questions from Amidala and her staff which would reveal his Sith identity and his ties to the Trade Federation.

    That's not the answer to the question. The Jedi clearly deployed themselves, without any orders from above, the second time out.

    What choice do they have? Just because they didn't trust Qui-Gon doesn't mean he isn't qualified for the mission.

    So now Qui-Gon is their only Jedi? [face_laugh] This gets better all the time.
     
  6. PMT99

    PMT99 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 23, 2000
    Geist - Even if Qui-Gon had 3 witnesses to prove his case, it still wouldn't help because both Anakin and Amidala never even heard of the Sith and Obi-wan wasn't sure what Darth Maul was despite seeing him in action. Also, there's nothing in the film to suggest that the Queen's ship had cameras and finally, I haven't ignored what Mace said about the Sith but is he certain that Qui-Gon is telling the truth? Earlier, he's all "I do not believe the Sith could've returned without us knowing" to "This is the clue we need to unravel the mistery of the Sith" and that makes him seem hypocritical.

    No way is Mace that trustworthy to Qui-Gon's word when he has doubted him like the other JC members had.

    "That's not the answer to the question. The Jedi clearly deployed themselves, without any orders from above, the second time out."

    The Jedi have gotten themselves in to this mess and there's no point backing out now, not when Queen Amidala's life is threatened by some mysterious warrior with Jedi Arts training.
     
  7. Lars_Muul

    Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2000
    What's going on here? Are you discussing the lack of danger in the Jedi Council or does this have nothing to do with the topic?

    I think that most of us feels a lack of danger because we already know what's going to happen. It's simply not as exciting for us to watch the PT as it is for the first-timers.
     
  8. Strilo

    Strilo Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Lars_Muul is right. Let's get this thread back on topic.

     
  9. Darth Geist

    Darth Geist Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 1999
    Also, there's nothing in the film to suggest that the Queen's ship had cameras

    Actually, during the blockade run, you can see the crew watching a video feed of the ship's hull on a monitor. There you have it.

    *ahem* So, danger...
     
  10. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999
    I don't think the films lacked danger or drama.

    It was dangerous when the Niemodians tried to gas the Jedi, when the group of battle droids were sent in to "finish what's left of them", when the Destroyer Droids rolled into the hall, when Qui-Gon saves Jar-Jar from being crushed by the MTTs, when Obi-Wan was caught off guard by the Battle Droid on a Staph, when the three of them got their Bongo bitten by the Opee Sea Killer, when they just miss getting eaten by the Sando Auqua Monster, when they were chased by the Colo Clawfish, when they barely escape a second encounter with the Sando Auqua Monster, when the Jedi rescued the Queen and company from their Battle Droid captors, when the Jedi took control of the Royal Hangar, When Ric Olie ran the Trade Federation's orbital blockade, when the shields on the Queen's Royal Starship were taken out, when R2-D2 and the other astromech droids went out on the surface of the Royal Starship (while they were still running a blockade), when the sandstorm rolled into Mos Espa (which was very, very dangerous!), when Anakin participated in the Pod Race, When Ben-Quadranaros blew his power coupling, when Sebulba kept smashing other opponents out of the race, when Anakin's engine cable gets disconnected and he has to stop the pod from spinning and reconnect the cable with a hand-held magnetic device, when Anakin and Sebulba get their pods stuck together, when Sebulba's racer crumbles around him, when Darth Maul attacks Qui-Gon on the way back to the ship, When Qui-Gon makes a leap onto the already airborne Royal Starship, when Palpatine is nominated to replace Vallorum, when Yoda senses fear in Anakin, when the Queen attempts to seek out the Gungan's support, when the Gungans draw the Trade Federation forces out of the city, when the battle droids start coming through the Gungan's shields, when Amidala, Panaka and the Jedi sneak past the diversion created by the Naboo Royal Security Force, when the hangar doors open to reveal Darth Maul, when Destroyer Droids roll into the hangar to block the Queen's passage to the Royal Palace, when the battle droids were shooting at them in the halls, while the Jedi were dueling Maul in the hangar area, when Anakin's auto pilot takes him towards the battle being fought by the Droid Control Ship, when the Jedi followed Maul out into that large "railing-less walkways over a bottomless pit" area, when the Queen, Panaka and Co. used their grappling guns to zip up the outside of the palace to get to a floor directly above, when Anakin's auto-pilot starts taking him head on with droid fighter formations, when Maul kicks Obi-Wan down two levels of railing-less walkways, when Qui-Gon backhands Maul and Jumps down after him, when they run through the laser gates as they are turning on and off, When the Gungan's shield was destroyed and they had to retreat, when Maul and the Jedi continue fighting near a railing-less, bottomless pit, when Anakin's ship gets hit and he accidentally flies into the Droid Control Ship's hangars at the exact moment the shields were down to allow another ship to leave, when Anakin navigated the narrow doorways deep into the Control Ship's interior, when the Queen and Co. get captured by Nute Gunray and Rune Hakko, when Qui-Gon gets killed by Maul, when the Droids start rounding up the remaining Gungans, When Obi-Wan ends up hanging on for dear life on the edge of the bottomless pit, when Obi-Wan uses the Force to make a wild flip out of the pit to catch Maul off guard and slice him in two before watching him fall into the bottomless pit, When we find out Palpatine has been elected Supreme Chancellor.

    The Drama is what happened between all this danger.
     
  11. hawk

    hawk Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 3, 2000
    Action does not always = drama.
     
  12. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999
    -sigh-

    Well at least I have shown that it wasn't a "lack of danger" causing the "lack of drama" in some of your minds.

    Since you aren't seeing the drama through the danger, I will have to recall all of the dramatic moments of TPM later on tonight.
     
  13. hawk

    hawk Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 3, 2000
    Don't bother. Everyone already knows you found almost every second of TPM dramatic. Why not just list the parts you don't find dramatic instead of listing everything from the emotionless reaction from Portman when she discovers her planet is about to be invaded to Anakin's "this is podracing" moment.
     
  14. Lars_Muul

    Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2000
    I didn't find the introduction of Threepio particularly dramatic. It's a good introduction, but not dramatic.
     
  15. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999
    Well Hawk, everyone knows about how some of you didn't find any drama in TPM at all, that doesn't stop you guys now does it?
     
  16. Darth-Stryphe

    Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2001
    Hawk, Go-Mer, let's not turn this into a pissing contest. Let's keep it civil and polite, else things will desinigrate fast and Strilo or I might have to go crazy with our ban sticks again, and nobody wants that.
     
  17. hawk

    hawk Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 3, 2000
    Sorry
     
  18. Billy_Dee_Binks

    Billy_Dee_Binks Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2002
    I just rewatched the Hangar scene to analize the issues the poster (?) had myself and all I have to say is
    non of these appeal. It´s a flawless action moment. Funny too. Quite witty in some way.
     
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