CT Last official Star Wars trailer shows how unnecessary "The Force Awakens" is

What are your sources for that? Lucas' remarks suggest that Disney did indeed discard his ideas for the ST. And I can perfectly well imagine that - they probably thought they could come up with something more successful at the box office. I mean, Tolkien certainly had his reasons for decreeing in his testament that Disney should never gain possession of the film rights to Lord of the Rings.

 

By this logic, no games, comics, books or TV shows should exist either.

 

But the Emperor and Darth Vader are both the source of the Empire's strength and power. Without them, the Empire is nothing in the same manner that the Chicago Bulls are nothing without Michael Jordan.

 

Regarding Star Wars as a complete universe, there are many more stories to tell.

from a certain point of view here> The Skywalkers and the complete destruction of the Empire? That remains to be seen. And I like that TFA team have created splinter cells of loyal (and perhaps fanatical) Imperials who rise up to take the place of the fallen baddie.

 

i do think that the 7 8 9 episode aren't really needed though.

 

Of course. Here, let me try.

HARRY POTTER
Set 3 years after the epilogue of the seventh book, a new, ancient evil arises from the North Sea, an evil thought destroyed centuries ago. It's up to our new band of heroes to defend the UK/the world from the horrors never seen since the days of Voldemort. Harry, now 39, makes an appearance and may/may not take on a mentorship role for one of the new generation of kids.

LOTR
A new evil arises from the mines of Moria and...you get the drill.

...I just proved your point, didn't I? The point that I'm making is that just because Luke's story is over doesn't mean it can't now be someone else's story. There's always some new evil that wants to conquer the world/galaxy. Luke, powerful as he may be, isn't going to be around for very long; he can't protect the galaxy forever. Someone else has to pick up the lightsaber and carry the fight.

 

Common fallacy.

Just because you have removed the immediate threat, it doesn't mean there will never be other threats or that no more work is needed. Removing the threat is the first of many steps to gaining peace and prosperity... there is still much to be done.

 

In your opinion

 

If I wrote, its my opinion....

 

Fair enough, I sometimes can get a little defensive over the PT. My apologies, especially since you've never been rude to me before.

 

my own feeling is you can go on forever with 'oh no the Empire's back." "oh, here comes another Sith Lord" but
one of the thing's i liked about Star Wars was there was a beginning and an End and didn't just go on for the sake of going on.

 

I tend to agree with the posters that stated that the Star Wars story is not over yet. For me personally, the part that I love most about Star Wars is that it is an Universe in of itself. Sure, the Skywalker saga is central to our understanding of this Universe in the particular time the movies are set in, but after all, the movies are called 'Star Wars' not 'the Skywalker Wars'.

 

Star wars is billed as a living breathing world.
In real life credits don't roll just because you found the remote you've been looking for for an hour.

 

i hope there is a STAR WARS episode 101. the universe is too big for only 9 star wars films

 

nice trailer, but...

 

I think the OP is right in that a ST isn't necessary.

It's not. You can clock out as soon as Sidious is killed and be fine with ending it there. We've been fine with it for over 30 years, so I don't see how people can disagree there.

What we're getting now, and what we'll be getting for the rest of our lives, is gravy. It's fun. It's not the rest of the story, it's hopefully the beginning of a new one, or a continuation of us watching our heroes continue on with their lives.

The original 6 movies will always be the base. The establishment of the canon. If they keep making Star Wars movies forever, it's bound to get really crazy as they run out of old ideas to exploit, just like the EU.

But, to say a ST is necessary is a bit of an overstatement. Even if you took the EU super seriously, it was always an add-on and not a necessary component to the movies.

 

The thing is, this trilogy is a continuation of that story, rather than an add-on. In all likelihood, we'll be following at least once direct descendent of the Skywalker bloodline. This trilogy is all about dealing with the consequences of the previous two, because the Galaxy was not going to be in a stable state after the end of Return of the Jedi. Our heroes had a long road ahead of them, and they'll still be on that road when we catch up to them thirty years later. The damage that was done to the Galaxy's stability by Palpatine can't be undone overnight; it's going to take decades, especially since it appears a more fanatical faction of the Empire still exists in the form of the First Order and maintains some control. My guess is that by the end of this trilogy, the First Order will be unambiguously defeated and the New Republic (which we know exists in some capacity due to official Battlefront materials) will have achieved true peace and stability in the Galaxy, akin to the thousand year era of peace prior to The Phantom Menace.

In a manner of speaking, the prequel trilogy wasn't necessary, in that the OT works well enough on its own, but the PT (despite anyone's feelings on it) made the Saga a richer story and expanded on the themes that were already present. It's hard to imagine Star Wars without it now, and I feel that the ST will end up much the same way; an indispensable part of the story, and hopefully a true conclusion to the Saga that doesn't leave us asking "What happens next?" because we know without a doubt that "What happens next" is, at long last, an era of peace after decades of conflict.

However, I will say that I want this to be the end, and I don't want them to expand on the Saga after IX. Let each trilogy function as a beginning, middle, and end to a larger story, and make any other movies either self-contained Anthology films, or set any new continuing storyline in the distant past or far-flung future.

 

The fact that we'll be following a descendent of one of the original characters (or even an original character) doesn't mean it's still the same story, it's a spin-off. The story can never be "The life and adventures of the Skywalker family" because that's a story that cannot ever end. A story needs a conflict, a beginning and an ending.
The way it is NOW, with the PT, the story is complete: it has a main antagonist (Palpatine), a main conflict (the revenge of the Sith: the fall of the Republic and the fall of Anakin), two main characters (due to the unexpected twist of having the main character become the bad guy) and an ending (in which Palpatine is defeated, the Empire is overthrown by the freedom fighters and Anakin is redeemed by his son, who completes his trainning).

I disagree with this. I assume this trilogy can't be about the consequences of the previous two because:

1. What are those consequences? Once the Empire is defeated, the consequence is the return to freedom. There's nothing to deal with, since it's a positive situation. Remember this is a STORY, not reality, and there was NOTHING in the movies suggesting that the rebuilding of the Republic would be problematic: there was no "fantatical faction of the Empire" (just mindless troops and fumbling military men following the Emperor and Vader), there was conflict amongst the "freedom fighters" (they were presented as 100% good, there was no subtelty about the process of restoring peace), and going by the movies, I have no idea what the First Order is.

2. A whole trilogy cannot be sustained by a "restoring peace and justice" storyline. That's epilogue material (material that almost never makes it into the movies - just watch Harry Potter or The Lord of the Rings), "boring" and not cinematic. A storyline needs a conflict, which will have to be totally new. And that conflict will reach its climax at the end of episode IX, probably. And once again, the ending will suggest that the Galaxy is at peace (just as Return of the Jedi did), but we won't witness that "thousand year era" following the conflict.

 

Except in the original trilogy, the Emperor showed up in one film, and the story concerning Darth Vader's fall to the Dark Side and his redemption didn't become a factor until the last movie. The prequels completely recontextualized the original trilogy, and shifted the narrative focus from "The Adventures of Luke Skywalker" to "The Tragedy of Darth Vader." The sequel trilogy will likely do the same thing, and give us a completely different continuous narrative arc to look at that runs from I-IX. The "life and adventures of the Skywalker" family can in fact come to an end; the family line can be killed off, or the Galaxy can be returned to a state of stability that would make any future adventures something completely different.

The consequences are: the Empire was never truly defeated. There was nothing in Return of the Jedi to insinuate that the Empire had been defeated any more than there was in A New Hope. In fact, the opening crawl of A New Hope directly states that the Death Star plans can "restore freedom to the Galaxy." And yet, we got two more movies with the Empire in it, and freedom had not been restored to the Galaxy. The Emperor is dead, there's no reason to think that the entire Empire, comprised of regional governors with direct control of their territories, would just dissipate. "Going by the movies, I have no idea what the First Order is." Going by the OT, I have no idea what the Trade Federation is, or who the Separatists are, what the Sith are, etc. Going by A New Hope, I have no idea who Yoda is, or who the Emperor is other than a brief throwaway mention, etc. etc. Those concepts were introduced and explained in later films, and were retroactively made to be important parts of the overall narrative that affect your perception of the rest of the series. They will likely make it clear that the First Order is what remains of the Empire, since that would be a crucial part of the story.

"A whole trilogy cannot be sustained by a 'restoring peace and justice' storyline." What do you think the OT is about? That is literally the entire narrative of those three movies, in fact it's the narrative of the entire Saga, and it's going to continue and likely be irrefutably resolved in the ST. I'm not talking about how hard it is to set up a new government, or the New Republic having difficulties choosing the color of their flag, I'm talking about: parts of the Empire still remain in the form of the First Order, the Galaxy won't be at peace until they're defeated. The conflict is a direct extension of what came before, rather than something completely new. Could you assume it was resolved if they had made no other movies after Return of the Jedi? Yeah, you could. Could you assume the conflict was resolved at the end of A New Hope? Yeah, you could, and people actually did. The Empire Strikes Back makes it clear that that wasn't the case, and The Force Awakens will have to make it clear that what's occurring in the ST is a direct consequence of what occurred in the OT. The ST is going to completely alter and recontextualize the narrative arc of the Saga, just as the PT did to the OT when it was released, just as TESB and RotJ did to ANH when they were released.

I also never said at all that we'd see that thousand year peace; yes, that would be boring, unless you're telling small Anthology stories of intimate conflict rather than a Galaxy-wide one. The thing is, the Galactic conflict was never resolved in RotJ, and it's going to directly continue into TFA.

 

Personally, I agree with those who say that each new set of films changes the overall theme of the saga. It started out as a story about Luke, then about the redemption of Vader, then about the rise, fall, and redemption of Vader through his son, and now it will be changed again.

Another way to look at it is the OT is the main story, PT is the backstory, and ST shows the effects of the OT.

I also agree with those who say RotJ didn't end the empire any more than ANH. The Empire is a powerful entity, and although it may be crippled, it will still exist. I think the EU was spot-on with its portrayal of post-Endor empire. It would still be very powerful, but with no Sheev/Vader to hold it together, it would splinter. My guess is the First Order is the main splinter faction. I believe this trilogy will deal with the legacy of Vader.

Regardless, the films will always have one universal theme. Anything that doesn't really fit into the main theme but provides backstory/narrative enrichment will probably be a spinoff film (or other media). Hate them as I do, I bet the focus of the mainstream SW films will always be Skywalkers.

I'm excited to read the new Aftermath books and learn what happened.

 

I don't think anyone can argue that the FA is NECESSARY. Story-wise, it's definitely not. However, that doesn't mean that it shouldn't exist. Honestly, ESB and ROTJ weren't necessary either. Star Wars was a perfectly fine stand-alone. However, 5 and 6 made Star Wars better. I think that's the true question: will FA make Star Wars BETTER?

 

George Lucas' Star Wars story is done. Just like James Cameron's Terminator story is done. It's up to you whether or not you want to keep following along.

 

I think that is a fair comparison. I just hope the non-Lucas story goes a lot better than the non-Cameron story has.

 

I think the ST probably isn't "necessary," but I don't think that necessarily matters. If it's a new story, then it's up to the makers of the TFA to make us feel it's necessary by the end. Either it can connect back to the Saga or it can create it can get us involved in its new conflicts. If we become involved in those new conflicts, then will feel necessary. If we don't, then it will seem like a waste of time.

I do agree that the PT felt much more necessary than the ST before its release. There were big questions left open. How did the good man Anakin fall? How did the Republic fall? How did Sidious gain power? How did the Rebellion begin? (Still not fully answered.) What were times like before the Jedi were hunted? What was the Jedi order like? These issues that arose in ANH and TESB immediately created story possibilities in the PT.

Still, what really makes the PT feel necessary now isn't how it was perceived before it was created, but how well it connects together with the OT after it's complete, and that's where I think it really becomes necessary to the Saga. I think even those who dislike the PT would admit that it ties together with OT very well. OT was Luke's hero's arc completed with his redemption of Vader. The PT tells the story of Anakin's fall that culminates in his redemption in ROTJ. The PT tells the rise of Palpatine who creates the Empire and tricks the Chosen One so that he fails to fulfill his destiny by making him his ally. The OT tells the story of Rebel victory over the Empire, the destruction of Palpatine, and Anakin's fulfillment on the prophecy. The PT presents the evolution of Obi-Wan's relationship with Anakin from mentor, to friend, to enemy, and their story culminates in ANH. Even more minor story arcs are completed by the end of RTOJ. Han is rescued and Jabba is dead. The identity of the other is revealed. Leia ends up with Han.

My big point is that the PT was able create story arcs that went from its beginning and stretched to the middle (Obi-Wan vs Vader) or the end of ROTJ. What makes the PT necessary is, because by the end of it, we need the OT to finish the story, and it feels natural to see the OT and the PT as one unit because the OT finishes so many PT story arcs. For the same reason, since ROTJ resolved so many story arcs, it makes it hard for TFA to connect back to it. For instance, if the identity of the other was never resolved, then that could be a loose-end story-line that could link TFA back to OT. Perhaps if Darth Plagueis turns out to be the villain, then that will create a link that they can develop.

Also, there is this possible link:

Spoiler

Luke's lightsaber, which was once's Anakin's. If within that, there is some secret "use in case of rebel victory" weapon/info etc, then that would provide a link back also.

So, in narrative sense, Episodes 7 - 9 mostly don't seem necessary to me. RTOJ was a perfectly good ending to those different story-lines. The Saga felt complete.

Still, what's wrong with starting a new Saga? Or what's wrong with creating a mostly new Saga with a few story lines that connect back to the old Saga? Or maybe Ep. 7 on up won't feel like a Saga at all. Maybe it'll go back to that serial feel where there is no end, like how comic books are. I think the serialized approach might make SW lose some of its heart, and it'll end up feeling more like comic book movies, but there are some good comic books movies out there, so even that might work.

 

There's nothing wrong with starting a new Saga: in fact, I believe that's what they're doing (and what they SHOULD be doing, instead of artificially trying to connect the new movies to the older ones). In fact, the serialized approach was more in line with the original conception of Star Wars! Of course, that makes it less of a Saga (it's not A story), and it makes it easier for fans to decided whether or not they accept a particular episode into their personal canon (Indiana Jones is an example: there are many who ignore Temple of Doom, or Crystall Skull just because they don't like it, and that doesn't "affect" the other movies).
However, it that's the case, I would prefer if they wouldn't keep the "episode VII..." title for the new movies, so they would remain separate from the main Saga (which is formed by episodes 1-6, created by George Lucas).