Latest AC Update

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Jay, Aug 16, 2002.

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Moderators: JoinTheSchwarz, LAJ_FETT, Ramza
  1. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    It doesn't have to be that way. Serious discussion about life and other assorted serious subjects are just fine in the JCC. However, most people don't take it seriously and/or derail attempts at serious threads with spam. Anything more than skin-deep thoughts most of the time are rejected.
  2. Jotun Denal Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 1999
    star 6
    The JCC does have a fairly large amount of threads which deal with "serious" personal discussion but unfortunatley, many of these threads are overshadowed by the various social or Harry Potter RPG threads. But by enforcing strict policies within the JCC, the plan will only backfire since throughout the forum's entire history, it has always been a place primarily used for entertainment.


    As I said before, we should just leave the JCC as is and continue locking the obvious SPAM threads as well as the bannings of occasional trolls. The Communication's forum shouldn't even bother entertaining the various suggestions for Improving the JCC since the threads are usually one member's campaign to become a MOD or just another breeding ground for uneccesary drama...
  3. Darth_Dagsy Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 6
    Given that most threads in the Senate Floor would never have been allowed in the JCC, I hardly see why the presence of the Senate Floor means that the JCC can only be for unintelligent posting.

    All I am saying, Jotun, is to let people actually discuss topics...a thread that has no purpose and is just a bunch of people posting silly comments really isnt anything useful for the JC.

    Just because SOME serious discussion isnt able to take place in the JCC, doesnt mean that people cant discuss topics (serious OR lighthearted) and cant actually have meaningful points.

    You seem to think that I am saying that we should cut everything out except serious threads. Nowhere have I said that.

    Just cut out the rubbish that doesnt have a real point to it. Leave the threads that have jokes. Leave the threads that are about a persons crisis. Leave the threads that have lighthearted discussion.

    Just cut out those threads that dont actually have any reason for existing...the threads that just have people posting rubbish.

    we should just leave the JCC as is and continue locking the obvious SPAM threads

    Hell, Jotun, that doesnt happen now.

    The Communication's forum shouldn't even bother entertaining the various suggestions for Improving the JCC

    Uhhh, Communications is for discussion of policies is it not? If people dont like the way that a forum is treated, why cant they bring it to Communications?
    You know, just because you dont see eye to eye with them, doesnt mean people cant have legitimate gripes.
  4. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    The Communication's forum shouldn't even bother entertaining the various suggestions for Improving the JCC since the threads are usually one member's campaign to become a MOD or just another breeding ground for uneccesary drama...

    Why is it that every time someone makes suggestions on how to make this place a little better, they're automatically labeled as being on a campaign to become a Mod? You know...I find that annoying as hell. I'm willing to bet that if people weren't afraid of all the torment, ridicule, flaming, and other BS they would have to go through, there would be more people expressing their opinions. I'm also willing to bet that there are a lot of people out there that have wonderful ideas, but they're afraid to express them. That's a shame. [face_plain]
  5. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    I agree 100%, Salty.

    While there are no doubt people who want to "help" only for personal gain, I think there are a lot more people who wish to genuinely help the JC improve.
  6. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    I definitely agree that there are people that are out for personal gain only, but that's no excuse to drown out the voices of the people that genuinely care.
  7. RidingMyCarousel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    star 6
    I just figured I'd add my two cents in here.
    As many people know, when someone tries to bring up ideas to help improve the forums, anyone who doesn't want to deal with change opposes them. Then they go about spamming and derailing the thread. Most of the time, the topics go back on track. Sometimes not and the ideas are left to wander.

    Examples such as the latter do not help encourage users to post their own ideas. When someone gets hell from other users because they have an idea, other users see it and just because they don't want the same problems as previous users, they let the ideas go.

    Flat out, I don't feel that's right. The point I'm getting at is as follows:
    When someone is accused of wanting to be a mod, trying to disturb the peace or just being a spoil sport, there isn't anything added to the thread here in Comms but spam to threads that could actually help make a difference around here.

    Should those people who repeatedly do things such as this be punished? Especially if certain things are on the point of flaming. Honestly, if other users think that other members are campaigning for a moderator position, they should bring it up with a mod/admin via PM or contacting the other user. Spamming a thread shouldn't be tolerated, in my opinion.

    This is a discussion board, not a "let's try and break other people's spirits" board. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and it should only be expressed when and if appropriate.
  8. Qui Gon Jim23 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    star 5
    I would have to agree with RMCoY on that. A witty comment here and there to lighten tension is one thing, but a thinly veiled attack on a person for bringing up a legitimate concern should be dealt with harshly in Comms.

    As for the problem with intelligent posting in JCC, there is only one answer -- intelligent poster=intelligent threads.

    If the JCC is filled with spammy threads and if Mods begin closing every spammy thread, what will be left? I've noticed that from just the 3 or 4 months that I lurked here before I registered to now that the quality of the threads has fallen significantly, but I've also noticed that those who have most consistently created quality threads seem to have been posting less and less (I personally think that this is because they locked B'omarr up in the BB house, but I digress ;) ).

    I have yet to create a thread, simply because every thread I've thought of creating would be either redundant or of no real value. The problem is most members in the JCC aren't thinking that way.


    EDIT: I kant spel...
  9. Connemara Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 6
    Ooh...RMCoY is back! Does that mean I'm up for auction now?

    Anyway, I didn't read all the in between posts, but I read the update, and I think I'm in agreement with everything they said.

    However, I do not understand everyone's aversion to drama. Admittedly, I have settled down a LOT since I came here, and was labeled the Drama Queen (my newbie days were something of a phenomena I want to forget). But still...people need to understand that the JC's chief purpose, at least for some, is entertainment. And lately...it's been bloody boring! I may have been banned during the DP thing, but even then the JC provided more entertainment than now. It seemed like every day something interesting was happening.

    I'm not saying this place should be turned into a zoo, but putting a ban on drama is putting a ban on fun!
  10. AmazingB Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2001
    star 7
    "I've noticed that from just the 3 or 4 months that I lurked here before I registered to now that the quality of the threads has fallen significantly"

    I'm sure most people would attribute that to the newbie rush brought on by AotC. Whether or not that's fair, or even true, is up for debate. But what I've noticed more than anything in the last two or three months is more and more copycat-type threads. First it was all the party/social threads, then the love advice threads, and now it's all the appreciation threads for actors/actresses/movies/TV shows/etc. You know, someone starts a thread to "appreciate," not even discuss, their favorite movie, so someone else decides to start one for their favorite. Are they all really necessary? Especially when most of the posts are "Yeah, I like him/her/it, too."

    Would it be too much to ask people to not post so many copycat topics, or at the very least to try and create some sort of discussion within the topics? The biggest problems in the JCC right now are people don't think before they start threads and people just seem to want their names on the first page so they can get themselves recognized (and if you don't believe that, just look at the number of people who have taken to using manual sigs, particularly those using their "mod" colors). I've thought of dozens of threads that I could create over the past few months, but I chose against it due to them being stupid or just not worth it. Couldn't we just ask other people to use the same judgement?

    Amazing.
  11. Jotun Denal Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 1999
    star 6
    The MODs do lock several of the SPAM threads in the JCC Dagsy, but there aren't enough active MODs to keep tabs on the forum 24-7 - A problem which is present throughout the entire JC. My main complaint is that for the past few years there has been an endless deabte in both the JCC and the Communications forum on how to "Better Improve the JCC". None of these various suggestions have ever been implemented or just weren't very practical. Ever since the end of the "Golden Age", members have always complained about how the JCC has been declining...but nothing has ever really improved and I seriously doubt it ever will. Discussions on how the improve the Community forum have never really gone in any positive direction since there could never been a situation in which everyone is pleased. I suggest just leaving the JCC as is and perhaps making a few more "user-friendly" MODs such as GriffZ to help cut down on SPAM.



    But as for these various "suggestions" on improving the JCC, they're basically futile attempts on controlling a forum which hasn't been under control since day one. The only thing the Administration can do now is moderate the forum as they have been doing for nearly the past 5 years. This exact same debate is what spawned The Senate and The Ampitheater, yet people still complain that the JCC needs more quality posting. It's just and endless cycle in which no one will ever be satisfied.


    If you're looking for a forum in which the majority of threads are of "quality nature" then the JCC isn't for you. It's primarily a place where people like myself, go to seek entertainment when we're bored or just looking for a good laugh.
  12. Darth_Dagsy Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 6
    Jotun, I went through the first 100 threads of the JCC last night...and found 1 locked thread. One only. Thats either the sign of a very strong forum, or mods that dont do their job properly. I dont think anyone will think that its the former.

    I suggest just leaving the JCC as is

    You see, this is all where you and I differ. I want it to be better than it is...you just want it to continue as it is. You dont care about improvement. Those of us that do, however, want something done.

    And 'user friendly' mods arent the ones that are willing to help fix it. These mods dont actually do anything around the place. They dont set good role models either in their posting habits. This is because 'user friendly' mods are concerned with popularity, and wouldnt want to harm theirs.

    EDIT: Adding and clarifying
  13. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Well, there were a few locked threads today ("today" being from my perspective). I've noticed a marked increase in a small number of users posting a lot of threads, many of them spam in nature.
  14. Jotun Denal Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 1999
    star 6
    Dagsy, you can continue trying to improve the JCC but I'm telling you, nothing will ever change. I've been here since April of 99' and there have been countless debates concerning ways to improve the JCC. All it manages to accomplish is frustration and "drama" - nothing more. Such creations as the AC have obviously done nothing to imrpove the forum's situation, but the idea did sound nice. The only way you could possibly make a difference is by posting quality threads and not participating in SPAM threads...either that or become a MOD.
  15. Darth_Dagsy Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 6
    Jotun, I do try to post well...but my threads...well, I dont have many good thread ideas.

    But because of that, I choose not to post them...I guess people dont follow the lead of silence...its easier not to.

    I'll keep pushing for fixes, Jotun. But why dont you help? Tell us what you think is good about the JCC. Tell us what you think is bad. Tell us what ideas people have had, and where you think they have failed.

    Its just easy to sit back and say people have tried and failed, so we shouldnt try anymore.

    The hardest tasks are also the most rewarding. Lets not just ignore...lets work on it.
  16. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    I'm not sure if there will ever be a way to change the "me first" and "everybody but me" attitude that is pervasive here and in society.

    The "me first" is the mistaken idea that one's ideas are highly important and that everyone will be interested in them, and the "everybody but me" idea is the belief that problems are the result of everybody but themselves, and that rules/common sense don't apply to them, just everyone else.

  17. Jotun Denal Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 1999
    star 6
    I honestly don't have any suggestions for improving the JCC since there isn't really anything I could possibly think of which would help improve the forums. The Community tends to go through stages, but unfortunatley it appears to be at a low point right now. The JCC is constantly changing with the introduction of new members nearly everyday, making it an extremely difficult situation when one tries to seek a permenant solution for the JCC's problems. I just feel that most attempts at improving the forums tend to be in vain. The only other possiblity for improving the JC is to maybe give the Advisory Council more "power" in what goes on in the forums. From what I'm hearing, the AC doesn't really do anything that useful for the forums so they don't have any real power to begin with. Perhaps the Administraton should also begin appointing more MOD's to deal with the JCC exclusively. By doing this it could possibly cut down on the amount of SPAm present in the forums but unfortunatley it also creates the possiblity of appointing a MOD who becomes too strict with the forum, creating more problems in Communications.
  18. Valiowk Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2000
    star 6
    Couple of replies that I have to make:

    mac-nut: Yes, I know that every user has his/her own interests, and that what interests me may not interest others, so some users may find the threads there quite interesting and post to quite a lot of them in a day.

    Believe me, when I made my earlier post, I hesitated to post it, because I knew that's exactly what people will say - that what applies to me may not apply to another. But I honestly think that there's a serious problem if most of the threads there are social threads, and the common response to a serious thread in there (well, not as serious as in the Senate maybe, but still rather serious) just is a silly response. Like what Dagsy said, it's quite disappointing to get 1 confused response to the thread he posted on the President of Turkmenistan. Sure, I may start threads that may seem more interesting to me, but at the same time I would also like them to be interesting to quite a number of other JCers, so that I don't just create another thread that clogs up the JCC. I can up the threads that I'm interesting, but it's really no use if nobody is interested in them.

    Amazing:

    Would it be too much to ask people to not post so many copycat topics, or at the very least to try and create some sort of discussion within the topics?


    Technically, no, it wouldn't be too much to ask for. Some of us try to do that, I'm very sure about it. And others have been nice enough to consider whether the thread they're going to create is worth it or not. But the problem is that this is not going to help if it is only the work of a few dedicated people, and is not really noticed by others. What we need is for more acknowledgement of this issue, so that we can persuade more people to make an actual effort.

    Yes, Jotun, it's hard to think of a suggestion that would really help the JCC as a whole, especially with the myriad changes that it experiences regularly. And most attempts at improving it do seem to be in vain, and haven't worked. Yes, members have consistently been complaining about the JCC declining, but nothing has really improved. But if we just leave the JCC as it is, then there is no doubt that the situation will never get better. Maybe pushing for fixes will only give us 1% of reward compared to the effort that we put in, but it's worth it as long as there is an improvement.

    What's required is not for us to just go in and start another dozen threads that suit our interests so that we have our own corner to ourselves. This is not going to work. Somehow or another, the amount of copycat threads, parodies...things that really become spammy cannot just get the approval of a moderator as and when one likes it so.

    I'm sorry. I guess I'm getting a bit emotional over this issue, but anyway, this is just 1.5 cents worth...
  19. Jotun Denal Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 1999
    star 6
    I agree with Valiowk on this issue. ;)
  20. NathanDahlin Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2000
    star 6
    Most of the members of the Advisory Council agreed to being given titles denoting their membership. Thus, I have given it to those who have desired it. :)
  21. keokiswahine Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2000
    star 5
    thank you, Nate
    *goes on "hunting" mission for titles*

    found Jay and Jeff42 with their AC title; looking good. :D :D :D
  22. Humble extra Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 1999
    star 5
    the JCC always courts controversy, at least now people accept its existence.....
  23. ILLUMINATUS_JEDI Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 4
    Good Job!

    The only thing bothering me is the Pop-up Menu not being ptu Alphabetically, I was going to post a thread and request it was but, no :(

    Why was it deemed a bad Idea?
  24. Connemara Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 6
    I always liked the idea of the AC. It may not always ber a critical part of the JC, but if something happens again like last winter, they may be invaluable.


    But nobody answered my question about drama- I understand how too much can be a bad thing, but ever since I arrived, I have been censured (though usually only in Games, which seems to be going back to that sad state of a year ago again) for no reason but being dramatic. Is that such a crime?!
  25. AlienAcid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2000
    star 6
    , I have been censured (though usually only in Games, which seems to be going back to that sad state of a year ago again) for no reason but being dramatic. Is that such a crime?!


    Yes, Read JP's post in the louge in games for clarification on why people dont exactly open there arms to you.
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