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Official Info Laura Dern (Vice Admiral Amilyn Holdo) in Episode VIII

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi & IX - Spoilers Allowed' started by CEB, Feb 15, 2016.

  1. Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2016
    star 5
    No. If anything, she's presented as smart but much flightier and naive than Leis (she believes in astrology, for example). So I'm going to guess that she might poorer survival skills than Leia and her crew, and this leads to a decision-making clash over whether to confront or hide from the FO. Or something else.
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  2. oncafar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2017
    star 5
    i look forward to the rumored poe/holdo conflict. ha!
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  3. General_Leia_Organa Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2016
    star 3

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    She's shown to be quite successful at the outdoors training, so survival skills aren't in question. Her people skills are questionable. It takes a lot of effort for her to appear formal in the junior senate and has an abstract take on the world at large. Even if 35 odd years have mellowed her a bit, I can see her unique approach clashing with Poe and the others in the resistance. So for example, she might see sense in lying about Leia being in a coma and supposedly calling for drastic action on behalf of the resistance, which poe would need to put a stop to.
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  4. Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2016
    star 5
    No, I'm not talking about a capacity for survival in the outdoors. I'm talking about survival in the game or political warfare with the FO. In that context, she doesn't seem to have streetsmarts or good political instincts, as Leia does. Being a bit more of a space cadet than Leia, I can see her possibly making decisions that are good-intentioned but naive, and that this could lead to disagreements with Leia and Poe.
    Last edited by Gigoran Monk, Sep 9, 2017
  5. Grand Master Galen Marek Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2014
    star 4
    I hope the pink hair wasn't inherited, undercover move.
    Last edited by Grand Master Galen Marek, Sep 10, 2017
  6. zam wesell2005 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2015
    star 3
    They will want you to think it's possible she is actually for the other side, but no. Somebody else will pull a switcheroo.
  7. I Are The Internets Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 8
    She will whisk Leia away to the Black Lodge. Rey will then visit both of them in IX.

    "Olyk Ner si a Htis Drol Yer! Uoy tsum taefed mih!"
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  8. Django Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 4
    Isn't she supposed to be an aristocrat or was that rumour debunked?
  9. oncafar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2017
    star 5
    it seems so far from the leia book that she is unlikely to not be on the "good side." so now maybe if something happened and she has some strange reason for not being on the good side it will be um "surprising." i'll probably read the leia book just to answer this question. :(
  10. sheri1967 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2006
    star 1
    This exchange - could be just Amilyn's quirky nature though

    “Are you looking forward to trying pathfinding?” “Definitely.” Amilyn’s loopy grin
    widened. “I hope it’s dangerous! I want to get more comfortable with the nearness and inevitability of death.”
    "… okay.” Leia froze her smile on her face by force of will while thinking, There’s no way she’s handling my climbing ropes. (Her father sometimes said she made up her mind too quickly about people. Her mother told her to trust her instincts. Today, she’d follow her mother’s advice.)
  11. Thrawn082 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2014
    star 6
    Yeah that strikes me as her just being eccentric as opposed to flat-out malicious.
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    Many people have compared her to Luna Lovegood from the Harry Potter series in that regard, and it's not a completely unreasonable comparison to make imo.
    Last edited by Thrawn082, Sep 12, 2017
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  12. oncafar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2017
    star 5
    i strangely don't see her comment as eccentric or malicious haha
  13. Thrawn082 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2014
    star 6
    It's the fact that she says it with a goofy grin on her face that makes it "eccentric" for many.
  14. oncafar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2017
    star 5
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    i'm not even half way through the leia book but amilyn holdo seems like a wholly good person. i'd be very surprised if she turned on the resistance--i think it's out-of-character for her. i also think that people (like poe perhaps) would be unwise to underestimate her. just because she has her head in the clouds doesn't mean she's not paying attention and in her mind scouting out pathways ahead for everyone. that seems so far to be what she does. she cares about the good of everyone/the group and watches out for how they could get into danger and when they need a new way (or else they will fail). she protects others by looking ahead. the way she goes about it is entirely intuitive, which is probably also why things like astrology appeal to her. whether true or not scientifically, you can use astrology in searching out the future. it's a tool--and much of the insight provided comes from oneself because a person interprets things according to their own intuition.
    Last edited by oncafar, Sep 15, 2017
  15. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Malleus Maleficarum

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 8
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    ... literally said Mace Windu of Count Dooku. :p
    oncafar likes this.
  16. CEB Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2014
    star 5
    From a Chekhov's point of view, if you introduce a Vice Admiral, that person is going to become Admiral
  17. oncafar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2017
    star 5
    i've been trying to think of how holdo could be untrustworthy.

    Show Spoiler
    holdo is a good person in the leia novel. she recognizes when others are in need and helps them. kier's death causes her pain/grief. in the apprentice legislature she almost was going in a treasonous direction in something she said in which she believed the empire was ethically wrong/being unfair. i think she was perhaps genuinely naive.

    i don't think that we see her full person in the leia novel and i would imagine her as a person with a lot of inner space that she doesn't share with anyone. she deliberately uses her bizarre behavior to deceive others (she is aware of how she comes across).

    she's from gatalenta and wants to be completely different from the others there. in bloodline there's a character from gatalenta and i have the overall impression that it's a world where the light side of the force is a big deal in their culture. in the leia novel she only mentions not wanting to dress like them but i would imagine that is only the most superficial aspect of what she wishes to define herself in contrast to. there may be aspects of the gatalenta culture that are "good" that holdo doesn't agree with.

    another possibility is that she was raised to be so good that it's her default conditioning and that the more she "discovers herself" the more she defines her own set of values which may end up being "less good" than those with which she was raised. she is possibly not only trying to express her individuality but in actual rebellion against something (it could even simply be her parents). whatever troubles she has i think she would likely keep to herself. she offers herself to help others (like leia) with their troubles, but she doesn't share her own. the confidence only goes one way between them in the book.

    (though there is a lot of leia sharing her troubles with kier as well and not really discussing his, which i think is one reason she didn't expect him to show up in that system at the end or see that he might actually try to turn in the rebellion to save alderaan. i personally thought leia was too quick to trust both kier and amilyn and too quick to assume others will have the same inclinations towards selfless service that she does simply because they have good hearts. kier was definitely a more selfish person than leia and he was trying to get her to be less selfless.)

    another question with gatalenta and the culture is if they deny the dark sides of themselves (the armchair buddha problem). that would make someone more vulnerable to the dark in some cases.

    i'm assuming that holdo was with the rebel alliance throughout the war and obviously she never did anything to severely compromise the alliance (since it won and leia still trusts her it seems come the time of TLJ). she is someone who has demonstrated over and over that she can be trusted and counted upon i imagine. it doesn't seem that she would agree at all with what the empire was doing, and the FO is so similar that it doesn't seem she'd agree with them either.

    i can't see her being like kier exactly and wanting to turn in the resistance trying to prevent the destruction of worlds. but it could be that the loss of the hosnian system hit closer to home for her than alderaan. she's probably involved in the new republic government and it was probably a matter of luck that she wasn't on hosnian prime when it was destroyed (unless ofc she knew it would happen beforehand). that might put her a bit closer in touch with her own mortality than she can deal with. but somehow i don't think that's it.

    and maybe they (she and leia and their current rebellion) are closer to losing than ever before. the world with their government is gone. the resistance has nowhere to hide (since the FO finds them on crate too). if holdo thinks it's game over she might be willing to attempt to negotiate with the enemy, even if only to buy time.

    if holdo was playing both sides all along i think it would be for bizarre reasons and with at least some good intentions (that through temporarily aligning with the evil side, one may actually bring about the greater good--something like that). i imagine she would be clever about it and not be willing to reveal the location of the resistance base until the right time (if there ever is one). i think she can play the long game, iow. snoke might be willing to use a spy on the spy's own terms.

    i'm not really sure how beguiling snoke is or if he has any talent for gaining the trust of adults (as opposed to manipulating children). but kylo and hux seem to want to please him and not just because they fear him. though he doesn't seem likable in the least, maybe he is good at getting people on his side.
    Last edited by oncafar, Sep 17, 2017
  18. Thrawn082 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2014
    star 6
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    Or they could just not make her traitorous/villainous at all, since everyone and their grandmothers would be expecting that. She can be an opposing force (no pun intended) who has different ideas of how to do things than Leia, without being evil and while still being loyal to the cause.

    Just a thought.
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  19. B99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2014
    star 6
    Holdo is Snoke!!
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  20. oncafar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2017
    star 5
    @Thrawn082 - i know that. it's fine to brainstorm.
  21. CrazyOldJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2000
    star 6
    It may be as simple as she wants to consolidate what's left of the New Republic fleet by hiding and searching but Leia wants to lead what they have on a foolhardy mission.
  22. Thrawn082 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2014
    star 6
    Another potential issue with her being another villain is that, well we already have a lot of villains floating around. Kylo, Snoke, Hux, Phasma, and maybe DJ as well potentially.
  23. oncafar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2017
    star 5
    i think it may turn out that one of the new two characters (DJ, holdo) isn't trustworthy. holdo is the one that it's hard to imagine anything untrustworthy about so if things are not as expected she would turn out to be the untrustworthy one. if she is untrustworthy there would be a range of possibilities of course. a character can be untrustworthy without being a "villain" necessarily. a character can be a villain but not on the same level as someone like hux.

    i think the "too many villains" argument makes no sense especially since one of these two may turn out to be something they didn't seem to be.
    Last edited by oncafar, Sep 17, 2017
  24. starfish Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 2003
    star 4
    I don't think she's a villain. I haven't read the new Leia book but doesn't it take place when Leia is 16, so she's known Holdo for over 30 years? If she were a villain I think Leia would know by now.
  25. oncafar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2017
    star 5
    that assumes people are fixed entities who cannot change
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