Lay Off Lucas & Co. Already!

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Jamiebacca, Jun 27, 2003.

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  1. Jamiebacca Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2003
    star 4
    AOTC is a wonderful, moving film. People who slam the romance part of the movie (dialouge, acting) don't seem to 'get it'.
    For over a year straight, armchair directors (people more annoying than backseat drivers) have professed hundreds of ways in which AOTC fell below Star Wars standards.

    The first target is always Lucas' directing. Let me first point out that many review columnists are themselves failed filmakers or actors, so their knives are sharpened for someone as successful as Lucas. Gee, what a surprise. I'd love to see one of them take the chances he did, work as hard as he did and make the same type of business choices he did as well to come up with movies which all rank as some of the most popular and loved in history.

    Next is Lucas' writing. 'Oh, the dialouge was terrible!' Opinions are objective, of course. Here's mine; Post-modernism in the nineties (irreverence, irony, thesaurus plundering) really spoiled the grounds for tales of involving innocence to flourish.

    The romance between Ani and Padme builds itself on a lot of layers, but I believe they both start from an equally clueless starting point; innocence. These aren't adults who are seasoned in romantic antics, nor are they teens from North America who are saturated with MTV, Dawson's Creek and American Pie. Anakin's SUPPOSED to be dishing out cheesy lines in an akward way - that's what makes it so endearing and sweet. But seeing things from a more factual standpoint requires more patience and understanding of the characters.

    That brings me to my last point; the acting.
    Hayen C. and Natalie P. have both been grilled on this. You'd think it was 'Jar-Jar Must Die' all over again. Now I don't know what everyone out there was expecting for the Star Wars prequels, but man, now everyone's an armchair thespian too? I fell that the two kids gave a great performance. They both accomplished the akward tension that two young adults might present in their situation. Not only are they not allowed to love each other, but neither of them seem to know how to express it properly. When I say this I'm speaking of the CHARACTERS, not the ACTORS. Their experience in love is minimal if not nill on both accounts. The lines are goofy, yes, but that adds to the innocence which we know will end tragically.

    It's very touching in a sad way. We know they'll never, ever have a chance to live happily ever after, and remember, they DO still have to keep it a secret (that's why the fireplace scene is important). When they got married, my feeling was 'What are they going to do now?' Think about it.

    I hope this might help people get a fresher perspective on the parts of AOTC which people unfairly disregard.

    YJ edit: As Jar Jar would say, weesa done here.
  2. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Many if not all complaints leveled at the prequels apply with equal validity to the originals, but some people are unwilling to recognize this. I've never let the flaws in any Star Wars movie prevent me from enjoying the saga with a passion, and I'm not about to start now.
  3. G-FETT Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    All you need to remember about Critics is the age old saying:

    Those that do, those can't talk about it! :D
  4. JangoFett316 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2001
    star 3
    I couldn't have said it any better myself Jamiebacca, great post!
  5. DamonD Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2002
    star 6
    You've inspired me, Jamiebacca.
    No more shall I endlessly criticise Lucas and his films. No more negativity from me!
    I'm a changed man. God Bless Uncle George!
  6. Latorski Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2002
    star 4
    You're absolutely right, Jamiebacca.
  7. maximus17 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Thank you Jamiebacca for someone who loves Star Wars to defend it instead of going with the flow. All critics like anyways are Oscar contenders. People go to a movie for fun not to criticize. There should be real critics that are everyday workers. Really get a vast array of people to critique movies. Like Jamiebacca said all critics are just failed directors, actors and writers.
  8. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    "to defend it instead of going with the flow."

    I knew there weren't a lot of people who liked the PT. ;) [face_laugh]
  9. Jamiebacca Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2003
    star 4
    Glad you all liked the post. It's something that's been bugging me since TPM.
    I guess it boils down to this - negativity gets lame after a while. I don't let others bring me down! I like what I like, and that's that. Enjoying the Prequels to the fullest is sweet Revenge!
  10. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    "You're focusing on the negative... be mindful of your thoughts."
    - Obi-Wan Kenobi.

    ;)
  11. Sithman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    "Enjoying the Prequels to the fullest is sweet Revenge!"

    You know, after years of prequel bashing, I have essentially taken up that stance as well.
    I love the prequels. These are the movies *I* am growing up with (saw TPM at age 12, AOTC at age 15), just like you 35-year-olds and 20-year-olds grew up with the OT. I love them. And, to be honest, I end up watching them more than the OT, most of the time (though I adore the OT, I'm not bashing it, mmkay?).


    Basically, to people who do not like the prequels (the so-called, "bashers"), I just say, "suck to be you."
    I mean, if you want to hate half of the Star Wars trilogy and only want to be able to like 3 of them, when I love and adore all six Star Wars films in their entirety, then good for you.

    Being able to watch two new Star Wars movies that I love, and being able to look forward to yet one more Star Wars movie that I know I'll love... Well, more power to me. I have 6 Star Wars movies to love and watch... You guys have only 3. Your choice. :)
  12. -Emperor_Palpatine- Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    "all critics are just failed directors, actors and writers."

    I critizise the AOTC, and like many who critisize AOTC, iam not a failed director, actor or writer. Your gushing is way off limits.
  13. DamonD Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2002
    star 6
    Your gushing is way off limits.

    Better get in touch with the JC tech guys, Emp. They haven't gotten round to changing your profile to include Mod colours yet, that's a strange oversight.
  14. JohnWilliams00 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 4
    The first target is always Lucas' directing. Let me first point out that many review columnists are themselves failed filmakers or actors, so their knives are sharpened for someone as successful as Lucas. Gee, what a surprise. I'd love to see one of them take the chances he did, work as hard as he did and make the same type of business choices he did as well to come up with movies which all rank as some of the most popular and loved in history.

    No doubt GL has worked hard and made some very popular movies. But as far as critics go, how come they aren't going after Spielberg's or James Cameron's throat? They are also very successful filmmakers. Sometimes criticism can be valid you know.
    Not all of it is blind bitterness or hostility. You say so yourself, some of GL's lines are goofy. Well, either you let that slide or you criticize it. Can't blame everyone if they find goofy dialogue a negative thing.

    Next is Lucas' writing. 'Oh, the dialouge was terrible!' Opinions are objective, of course. Here's mine; Post-modernism in the nineties (irreverence, irony, thesaurus plundering) really spoiled the grounds for tales of involving innocence to flourish.

    Tales of innocence have every chance to flourish these days. For every person that says we live in cynical times (they say that for every generation), movies with innocence themes will still always find an audience. LOTR, aside from its nasty Orcs and creatures, has an overall good-natured sweetness to it, and simple story that has been popular with audiences as well. And the Harry Potter films, another popular series (for mostly kids) did not suffer from the same "critical backlash" as AOTC. And I don't even have to mention Pixar (but I will). Finding Nemo just happens to be the best-reviewed movie so far this year. Innocent flicks have been accepted before, and they are still accepted now. (and will continue to be)

    On acting -- we're aware that Anakin and Padme are inexperienced and awkward in love. Yeah, it can be realistic just as in real life. I just don't find the romance anything special. It's flat, plain, and dead to me. Sometimes people don't want to see mundane things on the screen. If they wanted to see real life, they'll go rent The Real Cancun or watch Survivor to see people argue or flirt and joke.

    Star Wars should elevate itself (at least just a little) from a boring real-life conversation one could easily find at the local park. And the acting doesn't even strike me as realistic, to tell the honest truth. (The picnic scene was natural and good though). But the fireplace scene felt more like bad soap opera-quailty acting rather than a realistic portrayal of two innocent puppies in love.

  15. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    "Star Wars should elevate itself (at least just a little) from a boring real-life conversation one could easily find at the local park."

    That's ironic, especially considering all the times that I've read people complain about how the dialogue isn't realistic, and how people would never say those types of things in real life.
  16. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4
    Sithman - Basically, to people who do not like the prequels (the so-called, "bashers"), I just say, "suck to be you."

    charming fellow.

    I mean, if you want to hate half of the Star Wars trilogy and only want to be able to like 3 of them, when I love and adore all six Star Wars films in their entirety, then good for you.

    Once again there's that idea that 'bashers' choose to dislike the PT. Why would they choose to dislike it? They want to like it, but eventually they can't deny how they feel, a lot of fans/people dislike the prequels.

    Being able to watch two new Star Wars movies that I love, and being able to look forward to yet one more Star Wars movie that I know I'll love... Well, more power to me. I have 6 Star Wars movies to love and watch... You guys have only 3. Your choice


    Ah - so you KNOW you're going to love it. Sounds like YOU are the one choosing whether you like these movies or not.

    g

  17. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    "Ah - so you KNOW you're going to love it. Sounds like YOU are the one choosing whether you like these movies or not."

    Isn't that the truth! [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh]
  18. Sithman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    "Ah - so you KNOW you're going to love it. Sounds like YOU are the one choosing whether you like these movies or not."

    Of course I'm choosing whether or not to like these movies. I'm just choosing to like them. :)
  19. young_padme Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2002
    star 3
    Jamiebacca, wonderful points! :) I really think you are right on the money. A lot of times I find myself bashing some of the dialogue in AotC, but you changed my mind about my criticisms. :)
  20. royalguard96 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 5
    Lucas has a much different directorial style than most others out there today. He tells his stories visually rather than through dialogue or characters.

    A lot of people try to take Lucas' style and compare it to others who do direct more with dialogue and characterization. That's comparing apples and oranges.

    The characters and dialogue are like the steering wheel and brakes, while the visuals and sounds represent the engine.
  21. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    "while the visuals and sounds represent the engine."

    The plot should be the engine.
  22. Tomaschus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2003
    star 1
    I am not a writer, director or actor yet I can still tell when a movie is good or bad.
  23. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    And is that really anything other than your personal opinion?
  24. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    Is that a personal question? [face_laugh]
  25. MikeSolo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2002
    star 4
    "Star Wars should elevate itself (at least just a little) from a boring real-life conversation one could easily find at the local park."


    This is my opinion but, when watching a Star Wars movie your suppose to be seeing people who live in a different galaxy and totally different culture. Your not suppose to be seeing stuff that goes on here on Earth. So of course the conversations are going to be different than what you use to seeing. Plus I find conversations at local parks lame stupid and pathetic I'd rather listen to a conversation in TPM or ATOC any day over the bleep the talk about in parks.
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