***LCC IX BEGINS***

even though i'm pretty sure I'm the only Texan on here, the Alamo draft house down here in San Antonio has some pretty good rates when renting to local filmmakers. A while back the rented a screen out to someone to do a showing of every episode of firefly, and only charged him once. lol

 

I would be willing to put up a real prize of some kind, a new Macbook Pro or something. Maybe I'll sponsor a new contest next year? I've always felt the choreography contest didn't recognize all the aspects of a fight film, the rules for judging are unrealistically restrictive and no one follows them anyway, but we keep expecting them to. I could probably swing some celeb and professional judges as well.

On the other hand, is the era of LLC over? Are we going to get the same volume of entries this year as years past? This board has been a lot quieter the last two years.

 

We make our own around here, thank you. You, sir, are in contempt.

 

Limited Liability Company? But seriously: LCC is far from dead. If memory serves correctly its never been about the film aspect. Its the choreography aspect that is the heart of the contest. Most people who want to enter DONT because they feel they can't provide a decent production quality. I know, I used to be one of them, and someone I'm helping with an entry right now thought the same way. If anything the thought that these entries need to be more like films deters people's motivation to enter. Its hard to come up with a cohesive film based solely upon a lightsaber fight (see ep. 3). What are these "unrealistically restrictive" rules you mentioned that are hurting the comp? Aside from maybe the size limit of the file, they are all pretty standard and necessary. They've been changed around and around for the last nine years, and it seems that we're finally in the groove of things. If I was entering a lightsaber competition for the first time, as appealing as a macbook may be: I'd want to win a saber from The Wieber. What's more of a real prize for a saber competition than a saber?

 

If I'm not mistaken, we had 14 entries last year. Seems to be continuing to do pretty good.

I'd expect 10 or more this year... it always seems bleak toward the end with dropouts, but a lot of entries manage to show up.

 

There will be at least one, I'll make sure of that.

Unrelated: Can anyone tell me how to make a lightsaber sound effects track that doesn't sound like utter crap? I don't have the ear for making the pre-existing lightsaber sound effects work. What program should I use (I'm trying it in FCP, but it's not easy). It's really frustrating because I have the music lined up pretty well right now, but I don't want it to be drowned out by background noise. I could drop out the sound completely, but I think I'd lose the impact of certain things (but then I could call it a style choice or some junk.)

 

I know someone in here has the zip file for the lightsaber SFX we pretty much all use.

 

What do you guys listen to while rotoscoping? I listen to film soundtracks and trailers music (Two Steps From Hell is my favorite).

 

...You just won the internet right there. For myself, its a mix of anything Hans Zimmer, Riders in the Sky, and anything Michael Giacchino.

And in attempt to stay on topic: bumper coming soon.

 

I'm referring to the fact that people already judge the entries by story, visual appeal and special effects, despite this supposedly being a CHOREOGRAPHY contest, and despite everyone, including the official judges insisting that they're only voting for the best CHOREOGRAPHY. Why not just acknowledge the reality of it and reward it? It's NOT hard to come up with a cohesive film based solely on a saber fight. Look and any year's top 3 and you'll see they all exhibit cohesive storytelling. Hell, Eclipse is still a fan favorite (it took 2nd place in LCC 3) and they barely swing a saber until 3/4th of the way through, and then the sequences are 2-4 moves long and simplistic at best! Watch that and tell me it was judged solely on the choreography. Ironically I was bashed at the time for pointing that out because everyone was drinking the "story is grand" coolaid that year :/

In terms of a prize, yeah right. If I offered you the choice you'd take the macbook pro (unless you're an idiot).

 

Anything and everything from every genre of music in my library, to various podcasts, audiobooks and of course, Down in Front. Then again, I do a fair bit more roto than most on this board Gotta keep mixing it up.

As for the prize, I'd take a SaberShop saber. I have a MacBook Pro already. Plus the latter will always be budgeted as a future purchase as I keep my systems up to date. A SaberShop saber... not so much.

Edit 2: I'm actually in agreement with you, tumblemoster, about how the judging is done. I just don't think it goes down the way you say. It most definitely should be a more general fight scene contest, with all aspects of filmmaking emphasized. However, I have frequently been frustrated when it all ultimately comes back around to choreography. Reason being, it isn't worth anyone's time to choreograph the greatest lightsaber fight ever and not give a crap about presenting it in a coherent and exciting way. If you make a great all around film or fight scene, you can show that off to people; potential employers even, and they can see your cinematography skills, or directing skills, or visual effects skills, etc. If you all you have is a few shots on a tripod in your backyard with no effects, but the choreography is stellar... great. Nick Gillard could've used you about seven years ago.

It was mentioned above that judging based on filmmaking ability rather than strictly choreography would scare people off. To that, (and this may sound harsh) I say "so what?" God forbid people actually strive to make a film with some polish in a contest hosted by a Fan Films Forum. Personally, I'd rather sit through six or seven really enjoyable short films than 20-30 stick fights with little to no thought given beyond that big C word. Maybe I'm a little biased and personally frustrated because I've had two entries now that had some of the highest polish in their respective contests, and had to settle for third place because it keeps coming around to choreography. And frankly, the only time I ever heard anyone comment that the choreography was lacking in Duel of the Dorks was during LCC, when everyone was so obsessed with that aspect. Outside the contest, people love it as a film. Guess which one matters in the end

Our entry last year was never about winning the choreography aspect. Tim and I knew someone was going to beat us there. But we were concerned about making a movie. LCC simply gave us an excuse and a deadline. The rest of it was us trying to make our best film yet; from making sure the [small] story made sense throughout, to getting the visuals we wanted, to making sure the sound was always just right, to having an original score. It was also a huge opportunity for me to supervise a team of VFX people.

In the end, I just think a more general Star Wars Fight Scene contest could be much more beneficial to the entrants than the current incarnation of LCC, and much more entertaining for the audience. But I've been tooting that horn for awhile now.

 

So... You're an idiot.

 

That's certainly called for. Excuse me for preferring a prize be directly related to the contest, and something plenty of us don't already have

BTW, I added to my post up above ^^

 

First off: Your entries are exactly what I'm talking about. You did have great story, but you were beat out by good story, good cinematography/effects, AND better choreography. Understand, if you have it all, you should win, and I would submit that for almost every LCC, that has been the case. What I'm saying is that how it SHOULD be judged is already how it's judged, and we should acknowledge and reward that. The truth is most people fight for crap, their technique blows, their movements are awkward, and they have no business choreographing a fight scene in the first place, BUT these people still win the contest. Why? They consider the filmmaking, the story, the fun, the excitement, as well as the "choreography". It's funny, everyone in this contest always talks about judging only the "choreography" and none of them understand that good choreography tells a story just as much as cinematography and dialog do. It's in the name, yet you all insist fight choreography is some how separate from the entirety. Might as well watch a yellow belt test kata...

As far as a prize, yeah, I was wrong, you're not an idiot, you're and idiot and you're full of ****.

 

The only reason you won two years ago was due to some flashy wirework to cover up ill-thought choreo. And for the record: I'm a PC. So.. It really didn't appeal to me at all. Celebrity judges and apple merch? I'd rather not participate in a contest fueled by greed. If you have money to blow on something like that, go help out ObiJuan who has been petitionig people to help him attain a new setup to work with, don't come here and wave it in front of us like we need it. We don't. The jerkstore called, they're running out of you,

 

Jason, I don't know what your deal is lately. Maybe you're always like this and I just paid no prior attention. But seriously, pull the wire harness out of your crack and realize not everyone thinks like you. Your video workflows are yours, other people (particularly people who have major editing experience under their belt) have their own. We all have our opinions on LCC and various entries, but they're opinions, dude. I even mentioned that I've been saying the same thing for awhile now (years actually). Just because you disagree doesn't give you the right to call people names left and right. You're actually ruining your credibility with every post, at least in my eyes... not that you'd care.

 

Let us ease the tension in here a bit guys. This contest isn't about who is the better fighter or who has the best equipment or who can use it better, it's about having a good time. This contest was founded on the concept of imaginative kids wanting to show each other how awesome they are at playing with lightsabers.

I'll be the first to tell you that Nate and JediPastor beat the snot out of us when it came to production value and polish. All I set out to do when I wrote out Rivals' "story" and choreography flow was to have an all out saber brawl with every force power in the book in surprising and creative ways. I'm not a professional fight choreographer and I'm not a filmmaker, and I don't really want to be. I'm just the grown-up version of a kid who got in trouble for stealing his Dad's tomato sticks and using them to fight off imaginary Sith Lords. It was fun then and it's still fun now. We had a blast making Rivals, and I think it shows. The same with the other entries; Have fun making it, I'll have fun watching. Winning and losing and judging and calling people idiots take second fiddle in my eyes.

 

I can't speak for previous years, but last year (and again this year) choreography is still the thing we judge, and while we appreciate a solid film around it, we don't award points for it. Last year JediPastor and Nate were both robbed, if we were supposed to have been judging the filmmaking of an entry. But we weren't, and we didn't.

Duel of the Dorks is still my favorite from last year, but the winner was Whiteley because the judges thought his choreo kicked ass. *shrug* End of story.

 

Ditto ^^ I too think we kicked your ass in production value and polish

We almost need multiple categories in the contest.. best choreography, best directing, best VFX, etc

 

You'd better be kicking my ass with that stuff. I had two fighters, an HV20, and only six days to do all the effects. By myself. No crack team of people who actually know how to use after effects. Which I kind of don't.

If I were entering a general Lightsaber Fight Scene Competition, I would never, ever had entered Rivals. Luckily, the contest plays to my strengths.

 

Ha! Rivals is actually pretty impressive for a 6-day post job. This is all we could pull together in five days, prior to DotD. You uh, might recognize DotD's premise

 

Haha. "You know those things are plastic, right?"

Nice to see you were able to improve on the idea.

 

In response to the stuff above:

Brendon and I probably wouldn't have bothered working on another entry so soon after our last one, and just gestate on making the next one better (there were a few technical hurdles I said I'd get past before trying a new one, but that didn't happen). But I had a certain idea that I'm pretty sure hadn't been done that appealed to both of us (I won't say what just yet; once the contest is over, it'll be clear). So we worked on making the fight around this one theme. After we shot it, we realized the difficulties inherent in that idea made the choreography harder to understand. So we sadly had to start over.

Especially as I struggle with the damn sound design, I'm growing increasingly less satisfied with it, but it's the same thing I went through last year with our first entry (which was no masterpiece, but I'm satisfied with). I can't help but think our entry became pointless when I abandoned the theme, but nobody would have liked it if you couldn't tell what the hell was happening.

On the other hand, I think I've finally figured out Compressor. Yaay. It only took five years...

 

See, this is where I have a hard time with Moster. For all his bravado and chest thumping...I just don't see the goods to back it up. You have good performers and production value on your youtube page, but your choreo is kinda meh. Athletically demanding and well performed yes, but a bit tired and not very innovative, for the professional you claim to be. I have no problem with people who are confident in what they do, even fit borders on arrogance, as long as they back it up. But your bragging eclipses your actual work.

The tl;dr version is, why exactly should I listen to your opinion? I've asked my stunt friends if they've heard of a TumbleMoster or your real name and literally no one has heard of you. That's fine, in and of itself. My name doesn't travel far outside of the Editing or MMA world, and I'm ok with that. You, however, come here and act like you're the small town boy who made good, and expect the locals to fawn over you when you come home to visit. For an imdb page that is primarily short films, I don't see how those two perceptions equate.

 

Actually, Eclipse got third in LCC3, not second. Ryan vs Brandon got first, and second went to Mae vs AdidasJacket. Tumblemoster's entry got fourth, and he's never forgiven us for it.

Though his team did win LCC VII.