**LCC VIII Begins!**

As one can imagine, Saturday nights and Sundays can be very busy for someone in my profession. I have, therefore, been unable to post here with any thoroughness until now.

I want to say again how much I enjoyed this experience this year. I hope many aspiring film makers were able to learn a lot from the comments of the judges. This was definitely a pattern to follow in the future.

I would like to add that I was delighted to hear what the judges had to say about my entry. I knew that mine would not win, I even said so back when the prizes were announced. My choreography, though solid, was admittedly not very challenging. Especially now in contrast to Whiteley's, who's choreography was very creative and detailed. Congratulations again.

Though the message of this film was made for our fallen heroes, the style of this film was made for all of you. I was hoping to deliver something that had never been done before. And I was betting that everyone here would get it. I screened it a few times to some people at church and most didn't get it until the end title card. But I knew you guys would get it. I knew you would catch and appreciate the details. Dorkman, you made my day. You saw everything I did and your comments in particular made me feel as though I had accomplished what I intended to do with the style of this film. And Trey, you nailed it on the head. I wanted people to feel compelled to watch it over and over and even backwards.

What I'm trying to say is that you guys on Down in Front really encouraged me. I believe that you encouraged a lot of us who entered. You could've easily railed on some of us (I listen to your podcasts, I know you are fully capable of such) but you all chose to use gracious and constructive words to build up the community. I've never felt so proud to win second place.

To all those who entered, you all really stepped it up this year. Like the judges said, it doesn't look like anyone just threw theirs together without care. There was a lot of thought, and sweat, and blood, and tears poured into these entries. And I'd like to just point out a few of my favorite moments.

Jeff hibbert, it was nice to see such whimsey in an LCC entry. It almost seemed like a Jackie chan film with the humorous moments.
Constantine, I really like how well you guys executed most of your choreography. It felt intense and I felt like I was watching two people who really knew how to fight.
Nate, clever, clever story. My favorite part was at the very beginning when you guys wrestled down behind the counter with the movie poster then came right back up with the saber. That was an absolute perfect reveal and it set just the right tone for the rest of the fight. And I've never seen anyone use a setting more completely in a fight.
DX6Channel, good job with the blasters. I've been wanting to see someone incorporate guns with sabers. Storm touched on it a little last year but you guys really took it to the next level. Great graphic fx too.
And Whiteley and Shane, good choreo. I always find your stuff to be so creative. I wish I could come up with the moves you guys incorporate into your fights. My mind just doesn't think outside the box like yours. It would be totally awesome to try to hook up to make one killer saber fight. Unfortunately the equipment I use belongs to the church so you all would have to come out here to Cali, I can't take it off campus.

I know there's so much more to say about everyones entries. I think the judges have already said more than I could ever hope to. So good job to everyone who entered, thanks to all who made it happen and may God bless you all.

 

I have to say JP of the few entries that tried to be short films yours was most thought-provoking. While most others were focused on motion-in-space, you?re working on eliciting a very specific series of emotion and as a connoisseur I appreciate that a lot.

Your previous entry was a successful brawl, but a brawl nonetheless; the scripture & dialogue served as a crutch in lieu of an absent story (much as a regular crutch stands in for an absent leg, that is, not well). In this particular case the film the film bring definition to the scripture; ?here is the doctrine, here is example, compare and discuss?.

 

My internet's been awful for a few days, but I did manage to watch "Duel of the Dorks"... which was awesome. That actually felt like a real brawl rather than the fight-as-fast-as-you-can stuff we typically see.

I can't believe you walked on the bowling lanes. I was like "NO NO NO! HOT LAVA HOT LAVA! I thought that was strictly forbidden. Then what you did while you were down there was just good planning. Excellent use of location. I liked Nate, moving backwards and kinda stumbling on the scenery.

Plus, the lightsaber looked awesome. We got a little taste of using the on/off feature of a lightsaber as part of the fight, I've been wanting to do something like that for a while. Very cool.



Now, just gotta get my wireless to cooperate long enough to see the rest of them...

 

Thanks, Vapes (and JP and everyone else ). To answer your lane comment, it's perfectly fine to walk on the lanes when we did, since they wipe them down every night (which requires a mechanic such as Tim to walk the lane anyway) and re-oil them every couple of days anyway. However we had to make sure once we walked on the lanes that we didn't step on the approach, which is a no-no, because then you have a lot of cleaning to do or else bowlers will be slipping on your tracked oil So we had to always walk across the lanes (usually by hopping on the capping between them) and down to the carpet at the end when we were done. Actually falling and slipping around the lanes isn't as fun as it might look, mostly due to the fact that when you fall, you're falling on oil, so you get real messy real fast. Repeatedly falling flat on my face when Tim tripped me with the force wasn't too enjoyable, nor was pushing myself up, lest my hand slip on the oil and cause me to faceplant again

We had a number of ideas with regards to the oil that I wish we could've explored more. One in particular that I found to be fun was skating across the lanes, like from lane 1 to 32, simply by getting enough momentum and placing one foot on each lane like you're ice skating. We weren't sure how to incorporate that into a fight though. The stick bashing leading up to the wrist grabs and switching spots was actually an oil sequence, where we had planned on cutting between close-ups on our faces and close-ups of our feet to show that we weren't in fact using normal footwork, but were actually sliding along the lane. It didn't play out the way we had it in our heads though. Maybe a nice wide shot would've been affective there.

 

I agree, Nate, a completely satisfying, enjoyable piece. A "Wish I had done that!" work for me, congrats.

 

Nate,
How did you do the lightsaber effects (number of layers, blur amounts, etc.)?

Also, where did you use a CG lightsaber?

 

I'm sure for every shot the blur amounts, layers, and numbers vary. You should just post your entire AE project

 

Watched Whiteley's entry. First off, bravo for making a fight that long and getting all the effects done for the deadline. I can see why sound effects weren't finished, which is totally excusable in this case.

This fight has an amazing intensity that carries almost the whole way through. Aside from a few run and chase moments, it kept me pulled into every moment. The sunset silhouette shots by the bridge literally made my jaw drop. The videography was amazing and well planed, the whole thing feeling consistent in style and the cuts served the fight rather than defining it.

Choreography was hard to keep up with, you were moving so fast. There's some really great moves here that you could blink and miss. There's also two very different character styles, with the flannel guy kind of flailing about and going for the openings and the other switching to backhand and moving with his whole body.
My only real problem happens very quickly: After getting stabbed in the leg, even stumbling a little like that, the dude would not be able to stand. I don't know if you've ever broken a bone, or a bone in your leg (which I have) but it hurts. My whole body was shaking when I was just sitting down afterward when we were trying to figure out how bad it was. Dude should've been on the floor crawling away.

Then there's the Force powers. That's some of the best visuals and most creative uses of the Force I've seen yet. Great death, too. You guys really took the basics of what tools these guys have and pushed their limits.
Props for emulating the last shot of To Know a Jedi, by the way.

A solid entry and an entry I'm sure entries will be compared to for years to come. Very good work, guys.


EDIT:
JediPastor... cool.
I don't even have anything to say. That was just plain cool.

drewjmore
I think you backed yourself into a corner here. I understand going for the super-quick, two moves and the fight is over... but your presentation of it leaves something to be desired. If anything, you should've just gone for it and shown the moves. Maybe lead off different, put them in the situation rather than finding them in it. It didn't help that I'm still having internet issues so the first time through I wasn't sure if the pauses were cuz of the movie or the player acting up. A cool idea, but the execution needs work.

Contantine Razumno
This is what happens when you try to spend your whole fight being hardcore. The location changes, but the fighting itself didn't much. I didn't count how many times you guys did the low cross hit, but it was a lot. I was fixated on that move more than I was anything else just because it stood out as repetitious. I did like the style of the opening and how European this felt in terms of cinematography. Right up until they start fighting, I couldn't help but think of the camerawork in The Seventh Seal. That doesn't exactly translate to lightsaber fighting, but the wide shots and large, contrasted presence of your characters really helped it feel like a grand battle between two ancient rivals. The nifty teleporting thing helped too, not to mention completely solving the run-and-chase problem to get to different locations. The choreography needs a little more work to give the fight flow and different stages of intensity, but you had a lot of the right things going for you.

 

Reminder that voting is open until Friday. There are currently 53 votes cast. Vote early! Vote often!

Actually, don't vote often. It's verboten.

But if you haven't voted yet do vote!

 

First my impression on Jeff Hibbert: I have to say I love this video! At first glance I thought it was a couple 30 year old guys stick bashing with no effects, but I was wrong! Heres the thing: I thought your guys choreography was really good and sometimes it was really awesome! When all those guys ran out of the kitchen I found myself laughing and when you guys broke that bowl it was awesome! Right when you guys were at the fridge I was like "is he going to..." YUP you did! I thought that was a nice use of the environment. I really liked how you both were overall pretty aggressive with the hard hitting and the grunts and groans. I liked the personality of the kick at the end and the guy going "owe". I laughed at the end too with the ladies underwear... pretty darn funny. BUT you had a couple needless spins where the other guy could have killed that person and I didnt see anything that was too complex, but hey thats okay! Your fight rocked and my team and my family liked watching it! Your team should def enter next year so we can see how you improved; once again great job!

 

Finally listened to the commentary and judging, you all covered most of the ground. Hearing from our local celebrities and role-models in such a supportive and friendly way was a real pleasure to be involved in.

I'll throw in for the Paintball/Lightsaber team, entereed under 'Greg Helfer' and B.P. Stoyle. The audacity of playing out a tournament style team battle really spoke to me. A huge task admirably executed.

I also loved Jeff Hibbert's entry, in my notes I scribbled, "they went to the kitchen," in Dorkman's sense of, "going to the mansion," but they had me early on with convincing interplay and nice commitment throughout.

I won't quibble about the winners, you've got to reward the high-production value stuff when you get it. Although I dared to hope that I'd set myself up as the "most in need of custom hilts" underdog.

Really pleased with the reactions to my effects work; even I have referred to my entry as a glorified fx test. That I sold the cloning, and got aknowledgement from Mr. Doty that the brevity of my choreo had merit...well, I am over the moon about the constructiveness of the discussion and I'll be hunting around for those film suggestions. Never been much of a fighter or fight-movie fan, and I guess that came across more than I meant it to. During my re-editing process a friend suggested a "David Lynch" take on it, which emboldened me to bend the rules and make up my own grammar. Better than no entry.

Vapes: I'm still planning to finish the long(er) form film, and I'd love to get more notes from you.

Great contest this year, looking forward to next!!

 

Anyone who has the originally uploaded .mov versions of Entries 1, 2, and 3 (Dennis Engelhard, Gregory Smith, and Jeff Hibbert), I'd like to get copies. Please By the time I got to downloading, vimeo had already switched those three out for smaller .mp4 versions. Sneaky vimeo.

 

CG Lightsabers were done for:
- the shot at the start where Nate uses the force to get his saber off the ground (1:31)
- the 2 shots where Tim throws the lightsaber at Nate running down the bowling lane and it hits him in the leg, then bounces into the gutter (3:07)

 

Snap, I did my voting wrong..

 

You mean you didn't cast a first-place vote for us?

 

DX6channel

Not bad. The speed is there. The choreography is there. The performance is not. If you two weren't so rigid, this might've worked a whole lot better. One move I recall was a swipe at one guy's head, where the swinger missed simply because he missed, not because the other guy moved even an inch.
The guns... worked better than most. I'm not a fan of switching around weaponry when it comes to the LCC, but usually when people do include other elements in their fights, it's a completely separate section, whereas you guys seemed to find a way to keep them involved in the fight as a whole, not just when fighting with sabers got boring.

Not bad at all. Keep practicing, learn how to act like there's danger present and I'm sure you'll come up with something much better in the future. Cute use of the saber at the ending, too. That thing comes fully loaded, haha.


jsullivan
I don't get why it took a minute for this fight to get going. Nothing much happened until then. He could've just gotten out of the car and go. Good old school trash talking, though.
It seems like there's a lot more lock/miss/melee than actual swinging/fighting. Not to mention this guy keeps running. From a GIRL. A blonde one. In a miniskirt. Man up, dude. Man up.

The section at 3:10 could've been cooler if you'd made it happen faster and had more of a build-up in the earlier fight before it comes to this point. As-is, it looks like just another way to not have any actual fight choreography and more Force powers. Nothing too exciting happens here, I kept hoping, but it's a run-and-chase piece.

 

I'm confused. What point is there to voting since the winners have already been decided?

 

They haven't really said what, but I assume there's a prize for audience favorite as well. I could be wrong. In the past it's the audience vote that took precedent, I believe, but I could be wrong.

 

What was decided was that since the popularity vote can be messed with, even with security precautions taken, that a special panel of 5 Judges with good Choreography credentials, review, critique and decide the 1st place, 2nd place and 3rd place winners. Those winners will then receive prizes (this year, 1st and 2nd place received prizes as oppose to the two years before where only 1st place was awarded the prize). People who stepped in to give away prizes like Evil-Henchman who gave away custom made sabers for two years in a row and this year, Ryan doing the same, are always appreciated.

When I was approached about prizes I was all for it mainly because I knew it would motivate entrants to pick up their game. I like to think that it worked. Like many have already said, the entries get better year after year. I like to think it's because of the addition of a prize give-away. Some may argue that it should be done for the love of it and just plain fun and I agree. It is fun, but in the end it is a contest and I'm glad Evil-Henchman and Ryan stepped in to help.

The popular vote is still around because I would also like to see, on a public forum, everyone else's opinion. Who they thought the winners should have been had they picked differently than the Judges. If they picked the same three but in different order etc... And I'm sure the entrants are very interested in seeing what these other people think.

 

Xander vs. Moffatt
Well, at least you guys knew your film was silly going in. The commercial... I can't really count towards the choreography, but your choreography was interesting in a couple ways. You definitely tried to use your environment, which is a major plus. The fight itself wasn't very well-rehearsed and you fall into the same problem as a lot of beginners as having very rigid form. (Hey, even I did this. You should see Spenceley vs. O'Hern.)
Did you guys film this with a tripod/no cameraman? If so, it is possible to do it, it just takes a little more planning. You can get close-ups and dramatic angles so not everything is a medium-wide with you moving off-center, but you just gotta know where you want the camera to be for each take.

Like the last one, I see some good ideas, but the execution needs work.
Keep practicing!

 

I'd like to make a request and ask some of you more experienced filmmakers to talk some trash about my entry. I've entered this thing for four years now, and everytime one of my entries gets reviewed, I learn so much more that can be applied for the year to come, and filmmaking in general. A lot of people have talked about what they liked, but I'm curious to know what didn't work for people, specificaly a visual effect, cinematography error, or choreography beat.

No one has really mentioned the force speed segment, which I spent a long time making look right and nautural. I know the third speed shot in the alley doesn't hold up to well, and I'm curious to know some ways I can improve it for the SE. Also, what did people think of Shane being pinned to the wall, unable to move, then suddenly in a posistion to attack Aaron with a throat jab. Moreover, I'm very curious as to what people thought of Shane popping his shoulder back into place with the force, as it's one of my favorite gags.

I'm looking at you judges, Silentbat, Laz, Spiff, Ricky, Vapes, Nate and anybody else. My favortie part of this contest is the constructive critisim, because I always learn so much from it. I'm writting up some reviews for the other entries, so I'll try to get them up soon, though I think I'll wait for the popular vote to be over with. Can't wait to hear back.

 

Oh... you just wait

 

Haha, I think I was IM'ing with Laz when I was watching that. "Dude... what the.. GROSS"... or something. (I have a thing about bones.) That was the creative use of the Force I was talking about, lol. I've been wondering why Force-users (not Jedi, they have a code) wouldn't get all blood-bender on their opponents and really mess 'em up. Force push? How about Force hold-their-arms-behind their-back. Or Force-stop-hitting-yourself.
Comedic suggestions, but you get what I'm saying.

I was just giving an impression after having seen it, Whiteley. If you want, I can watch your entry again later and give you some more thorough notes. Just gotta finish up everyone else's first.

 

My only real criticism of the piece as reviewed was 1) the lack of sound design and 2) it was wall to wall action, and a couple of breaths would have accentuated the choreography, which I've gone on about how I am a fan of.

The force re-location of the arm was a cute gag, but again, sound design would have benefitted it a great deal. The force assisted sprinting I didn't care too much for, but it wasn't too distracting either. Some better lighting would have helped a bit. If you don't have access to a bounce board, go by a large piece of cardboard or particle board, wrap one side in tinfoil and tape it down. It's a quick fixx to get you some better light outdoors.

That said, it was some very smart choreo. Next fight scene, think from your characters inside out and block your steps based on the story and the motivation of the leads.

 

All right... I won?t do a hard breakdown right now, but I?ve brought some of the LCCs with me to work and I?ll have another look at yours during lunchtime. In the meantime, I?ll start by assuming that you?ll tinker a bit more with post production to improve stuff, like the abovementioned sound design. If not, it would be worth it now that the LCC is done to adapt this into its own short film. So saying that, onto the choreo.

The first thing about the entry that?s different from your older ones is the fight progresses over several different areas, what I call ?arenas?. This is a good thing; even if the particular environment isn?t used, the different backgrounds help establish different moods. Open spaces inspire freedom, closed spaces inspire oppression, etc. The trick lies in pacing out arenas. Like I mentioned (as an observer in) the live judging, I believe you could have removed the alleyway fight and still would have won the contest. But! The fight is really, really good. So what?s wrong? Would you believe? it?s too good?

You could have chopped the alleyway out and release it as its own winning entry. What happens is that it dominates the film, in good part because here is where the consequences of the fight start to kick in; there?s pain, there?s desperation. It?s also the part of the film where you see the intent isn?t an honourable contest of skills, but murder. And see, it doesn?t quite fit with the previous sequences, because all the other moves to other areas were really consequence-free; it?s still the same two fighters, two weapons, two skill sets? and the title ?Rivals? hints that this same fight has gone on before with little gained or lost. Like AstroninjaStudios mentioned in the live event, this year there was a lot of ?running away?, mainly as filler. Like I mentioned before the ideal reason you change arenas is to change mood. But ?arena? can be misleading, I don?t just mean a place, but also circumstances; it?s any condition that caused the fight to shift. And prior to the alleyway - or more particularly up until the hit & run ? the circumstances don?t shift much, at least not enough to justify the change in background scenery. I get why, you want to audience to be warmed up, to establish each guy skill sets. However, your warm up is so long you?ve convinced the audience that the warm up is the main fight, so by the time the brutality in the alleyway begins the audience is too fatigued. They can?t properly appreciate

A) that the alleyway is a metaphor ? e.g. the fighters are on a collision course and

B) The alleyway is interactive: stuff in the alleyway is used in the fight, and the alleyway takes damage.

How to improve it? Again, change the circumstances of the arena, not just the location of the arena.

More later.