Discussion in 'Fan Films, Fan Audio & SciFi 3D' started by ObiJuan2080, Oct 12, 2012.
Hooray. Very excited to see this year's entries! One down so far, off to a pleasant start!
Me no can wait.
I will try and keep my reviews short and sweet. Keyword: Try. There are spoilers so watch before reading. My hat off to all who entered.
A few things before you start into it. ADS? Youtube doing or users?
YAY more girls this year than any one before.
DimoN vs Stas
The good, the effects. I was very impressed by the saber effects, from youth to boot. The fight though I think could improve from take a step closer guys, editing tighter and changing your camera angles a little. I look forward to your next entry, as Ricky_Calrissian stated, you have the potential to do great things.
Award: Missing Limbs Collection
Jedai (Samurai Epic Star Wars Film)
If this was simply a stand alone fan film, it would be on my top 20 fanfilms. As an entry to a choreography contest, it is a solid entry though there was few moves or actions stood out. I loved your choice for making it black and white. Some glorious shots. And my favourite line yet uttered in LCC, “Sanity over-rated.”
Award: MMPR Putty Mindset
Sciurus art group
It is hard to review this one on choreograph from a single angle. I do give a nod for fighting with lightsabers in the dark; it does look neat (if only you guys had a better camera). Only move from the fight I loved and was around 2:08 – if only your whole fight was witty in that regard.
Award: Art Film
John Vs. Marvin
The good: camera work and choice angles (for the most part). Sadly at 1:12 you guys dived into stick waving... a step below stick bashing. I kinda got what you were trying to do, but the angle used reveals it.
Award: Creepy Stalker Cameo
You guys nailed the costumes, make-up and effects. Fight was interesting. I was distracted by random american flag on the column. Music choice at beginning and end was... ODD.
Award: Boys and Toys
The pacing seemed a little off at times. The whole sequence at approx 2:25 was pretty sweet.
Award: Greenery Aplenty Award
Jan vs Tobias
You can tell this was a staged fight, with some truly amusing and complex moves only hindered by the speed in which it was executed. And for your age group it is very impressive. Would be interesting to see what a Jan/Tobias vs DimoN/Stas double team action would end up like.
Award: Granny Speed
First; ignore Ricky_Calrissian comments on the Canadian red **** he overlooked the big american flag you boys rode passed to even out the nations shown. Watching I was just awaiting for a slip, because getting hit with looks like fishing poles is going to sting at the very least. I loved that most of your stick bash as the blocks would kill you if you didn't block... so not really stick bashing. And your speed is incredible. I'm sure you guys just inspired one of next years crew to do a lightsaber fight in to pick ups going down hill fast with your bike sequence. (Please do not do that.) There is so much that went on in this entry it is hard to imagine what you will bring to the table next year. Congrats.
Award: First Bike Duel Ever and BARE FOOT HIJINKS! (Yes, two as I'm sincerely impressed.)
Rise of the Fallen
Wow another entry that could easily be a standalone fanfilm. Fight was creative and some original stuff in there.
Award: Real Men wear tights and tassels
Round 1 Infinity
Three fights for the price of one. I loved the concepts here. The third fight had a bit too much stick bashing. Really loved the waking up effect; truly trenchant. I believe your choice to not have a soundtrack was a benefit and helped sell your fight well especial with your sounds effects.
Award: Round 2 divide by zero to end the universe.
I kind of wished for more rage from the fight. I think it would have went well with the characters and their outfits and the music you guys picked.
Award: Live Action Anime or Bacon Sizzle Sound Effect
Some cool usage of force F/X. You guys are certainly dressed for a John Woo showdown. Sadly the fight got stale as the sun set.
Award: Epic Opening Establishing Impossible Shot
The Sith and the Jedi
Wow. Just wow. Harrison has become a bonafide amazing director and his crew has always improves and gives a good show. This is nothing like any of their other fights to date and has just floored me. That aside the fight seemed to lack some impressive moves. Might be me being to impressed by the quality of everything else though.
Award: Handsome-ness Fight
In Search of a Master
Each block was to block a hit that would otherwise hit the person. I liked that a lot. It is probably why I loved this one best. Also the fight was not about to kill each other. Something I like in many of my favourite LCC entries over the years.
Award: Best Liam Neeson Impression Award
Some of this reminds me of Art of the Saber with the establishing shots. They are genuine beautiful. And the force karate chop also impressive and well done.
Award: James T Kirk Karate Chop
You guys made me laugh. I love entries that do it for the gags. And adding in some creative moves and weapons is just a bonus.
Award: Most Annoying Music Ever
Oh my. /Takei Voice – Harrison and his crew does it again another quality entry. I liked this fight better than TS&TJ one. This has everything.
Award: Best Fight Music Ever
Echelon: Boter vs. Vaportrail
There are some nice elements to this entry. Some cool ideas; water bottle to steam, the force tosses... Not a fan of the orange tint from the lamp posts. And I appreciate we came into the fight midway though I think there should have been blood on faces to help establish that fact more.
Award: 80s vibe
RvSB | Nemesis
First thing, I love the fact this fight had a clear defined beginning, middle and end. The fight is a David and Goliath fight. And I loved that neither fighters broke out of that. No super awesome comeback for SB out left field of impossible. And the burning eye scene amazing! A lot of new moves and ideas, I was loving this entry. Free well done entertainment.
Award: Fancy White Shirts
I have not chosen to post my top 3 or 5 or 10. I will leave that to the professionals, it is far too hard for me to pick just 3 let alone rank them.
What the hell. I'll post them just before the show. I reserve the right to be influenced by the judging, but I doubt it. I went through the entries and said, "Is this one better than the last one?" and ranked them in a pile of index cards. Normally, I wouldn't try to rank them in order, and they may drift around or get into a tie with others if it were totally honest, but if I HAD to rank them, they'd be like this:
After much deliberation, I decided the number one entry is...
1st Place - Ferocity is the best because it has the best choreography without any obvious wasted moments or missteps. We haven't seen lightsabers that fast since Revenge of the Sith (or anything Whiteley has done).
2nd Place - RvSB: Nemesis. It's second because there is a little bit of less than awesome choreography. There's more interesting choices in this one, but it's not all 100%.
3rd Place - In Search Of A Master. RvSB has more interesting ideas with the choreography (not to say that this one didn't have some, too). It's still a very precise and skillful fight that I love.
4th - Prevail - As a whole, Master is better. The first half is frantic, but not all that special. The latter half is where it takes OFF, with the naginata.
5th - Slice - It's quite a bit slower than the above entries (except for Master). It has some wild ideas, but again, all but the last ten seconds of the saber-on-saber is sort of perfunctory. And that half isn't as rad as the half in Prevail, even with the brand new light-kataka. It's also hilarious. I have a feeling Whiteley and my styles would jive well.
6th - Echelon - I'm actually surprised this one is this high. The saber on saber isn't perfect, but MAN they are trying a lot of stuff here. Slice is just more successful in its overall execution.
7th - Hilltop Duel - It's below Echelon because it's sometimes hard to see what moves they're doing, and they get into some stickbash territory. But DAMN they're fast. When they get a few more entries done, these guys could rule the WORLD.
8th - Round 1 Infinity: I prefer Hilltop because they still had moments that stood out, I guess you could say Setpiece Moments or something. This one was well executed, if not reaching for the stars, but all the intrigue came from the setup rather than the choreography.
9th - DimoN vs Stas: It's a lot less gracefully executed than the above, even with more Setpiece Moments. Still good and fast.
10th - Rise of the Fallen: It's below DimoN because even though the choreography is faster and more vicious, it's not as interesting and there's less of it. It's still stylish and passionate.
11th - The Prize: I just couldn't QUITE eke this one above Rise of the Fallen. It's just too slow and careful. It has some neat moments, but it's pretty plain.
12th - The Deal: They're faster than the Prize, but NOTHING interesting happens except the lunge at the first part and the two-on-one stuff (and even that stuff is only OK).
13th - Child's Play: The two-on-one in The Deal is cooler than anything in this fight except the whip and the girl in makeup. They don't even shoot the main actor FLIPPING right so you can see his whole body so you have context for where he's moving! Pretty much all of the actual saber-on-saber isn't great (which is a shame because they clearly spent some time on it).
14th - REUNION: Even the badly shot and utilized flips in Child's Play were at least performed correctly. There are some ideas, like the flip over the woman on the ground, but at the angle they're posing at, it looks like it shouldn't work that way. I think there wasn't a lot of practice on this one to test if ideas like that were actually practical (or they just faked them and didn't care). I'd like to see this one without the effects, because I think the jerky lightsaber moves makes it harder to figure out where the stunt blades are.
15th - Jan vs Tobias - I don't want to pick on a newbie, but there were three attempted "cool" moments in REUNION. Jan had only one. I suppose since it's shorter, maybe there's a higher ratio of this, but I still can't quite rank it higher than REUNION. On the other hand, it's the only time I've seen To Be Continued where I've thought, "Yeah, I want to see the rest. Show me what else you got."
16th - The Sith and The Jedi - YES, I actually like Jan vs. Tobias better. That has ONE "cool" moment. This one has NONE. I was absolutely bored to death by this one. I think someone thinks they're jedipastor. I wasn't thrilled with The True Measure of Devotion, but at least the actual choreography they pulled off in that one was DIFFICULT or at least INTERESTING. This was so obligatory, gussied in slow-mo with flawless special effects. It's a crime to waste that much time making something of so little interest.
17th - Sciurus - Sith and the Jedi ranks above this one because it only repeats itself ONCE. I swear, these guys are doing the same things over and over. Am I crazy here? Maybe they're sparring exercises. Nothing benefits from the static camera angle, but this one had very little of interest.
18th - Jedai - Believe it or not, I actually like Scirurus' choreography better mostly on the virtue that they have nice long takes to do their long sparring sets AND they have sets with more than a few sets with more than a few moves. (I know it's supposed to be like a samurai film, but quick hits could be more interesting and better executed than this.) There is only a shred of interesting choreography in six minutes of fanfilm. Let's be clear: the fanfilm is actually great. I won't complain about the acting or the effects or any of that. I think they're all good. The story is also more compelling than it's closest analogue, Rise of the Fallen. But you bring so many people together for a choreography contest (which I'll remind you, that's what this is) and THAT'S the choreography you're going to enter with? I'm not even convinced it's an improvement from the choreography in Inversions. You have the fundamentals of filmmaking down. This much is clear. I beseech you, make the choreography the primary focus next time.
19th - John vs Martin: I have no real love from Jedai from a choreography standpoint, but... at least I knew what the frig HAPPENED in it. Someone got chopped this way or that, someone fell, bing bang boom. I have NO idea what happens in John vs Martin. Sometimes, it looks like they're not making contact. I can't tell where they are in relation to one another. There were plenty of takes that looked like they totally messed up and just kept going. This is inexcusable. I don't even know which one is John and which one is Martin because both names appear when the black guy is on screen!
There we go. That's my reasoning. But what the hell do I know? Nothing, that's what.
Am I the only one who's gotten banned from the chat room, without even entering any text?
What was your username?
Check your PM Inbox (upper right, between your username and Alerts).
I've only watched through them once, but at the moment I think my favorite three (off the top of my head) are Rise of the Fallen, Slice, and Ferocity. Based mainly on entertainment value. I'm not a great judge of choreography.
My name is Aaron, I play the bad guy in 'Rise of the Fallen' Thanks for all the great and constructive comments etc they really inspire us to do more in the future.
I thought I would use this forum to answer some of the questions people had about the film:
- The major one is regarding the choreography (or lack there of), it was my job to come up with the chor' and I did have some awesome, technical and just plain cool stuff organized. Originally it was going to be a 2 vs 1 fight, but one of the guys dropped out at the last minute :/ (literally a couple of days before filming) and I didn't have time to come up with new stuff, so we had to create a whole new fight on the day. Some of the fighting was even free-form (myself and the other fighter have been studying swordsmanship for about 12-15 years) It was a little weird to do stage fighting on the fly, so unfortunately it didn't come out as cool as I had hoped.....But next year *rubs hands together and laughs evilly*
*A note about the choreography: People were saying how it looked like we were really trying to hit each other and what not. It looks that way because of our training and the fact that if one of us stuffed up a block/parry, we were going to get hit. I actually got hit in the crotch, funny for everyone on the day (I'm actually thinking of editing a bloopers reel together, so stay tuned)
Some of the other things raised....
-Some people thought there was too much blood....We did it that way purely because it was cool, especially in slo-mo. Trust me when I say we could have used a lot more heh
-The fight in the stone structure was very brief I know, it was like that only because of time restraints and having to create chor' on the spot :/
-At times my footwork was lacking, especially at the start. This was only because my boots had absolutely no grip on the grass (!) Some of the outtakes are of me falling on my ass because of this exact reason
-A lot of people have commented/praised our final death scene The original idea for the death I had envisioned was even worse (!) but again, due to time restraints we couldn't fit it in (We filmed and edited it all together in 4 weeks !!!)
Again a big thank you to everyone that commented on our film, it really is inspiring us to do another next year. The guys behind the magic (vfx etc) are from slapshot films, they have a few short films on youtube ('Glove Warfare', 'Lumen', DeathLoop') Check them out they are really good at what they do.
If anyone wants to, give me a shout on Facebook, we have same really cool behind the scenes photo's up
Wow. had no idea that a whole character was missing. You did a really great job, I really enjoyed the movie and I believe I had it in my top three; if not, then my top five. Far and away my favorite film.
And again, I loved the blood, fit the visual style really well
Howdy folks! I'm the fellow that shot / cut In Search of a Master. I was also in Jedai as 'jedi running across ridge,' 'bearded walking jedi next to bald jedi,' and then I get cut down at about 3:01.
I just wanted to pop on to say how encouraging seeing all these favourable comments has been! (Which is to say very.)
I of course would have had to do a horrendous job to make Sam Slater's (the apprentice) choreography / performance look bad, but this was really my first foray into shooting a lengthy fight scene and was a huge learning experience for me. Most of my video experience has been with parkour videos, including one from a while ago of Sam, (something I also dabble a bit in myself but fights are a whole different beast. I've watched plenty of fight shorts, and like to think I paid attention to how they're filmed, but after shooting an entry into LCCX I realized how little I kept in mind. I've been taking a lot of mental notes while watching this year's fantastic entries.
It was shot handheld with a Sony A65 and the standard 18 - 55mm lens that came with it. I'm hoping by this time next year I might have a nicer lens or two, as well as some sort of steadicam rig. Although there's a chance someone else might have to film if I end up in front of the camera and not behind it. We'll see how that goes though. Jedi parkour fight scene? Who knows.
Again, thanks tons. I don't think Sam, Chris, or myself were expecting things to go this well for our entry.
These are the comments I left on the YouTube pages. Figured I'd post them here as well.
LCCX DimoN vs Stas
The visual effects are well done, but I agree that the footwork is awkward and a the motions are a bit too slow and unrealistic. Looks more like a dress rehearsal. And The Matrix music has overstayed its welcome in saber videos. I used Matrix music in my LCC3 entry, and even then it seemed over the hill. I will give you this, you have some great ideas, just needs some more practice and more realism in the performances.
Well done, nicely shot, but I have to agree that the choreography itself was a little lackluster. All those moves could have been great in a battle of 1v1, but with 1v20 it looks like the multiple Jedi forces are weak and just there to be cut down. Works well for a dramatic effect, but for a choreography competition I'd recommend just doing 1v1 next time.
Sciurus art group
Get yourself a cameraman next time. Having more diverse shots will do wonders to maintain interest. 5 minutes of fighting in the same square with a tripod shot gets boring, regardless of the action. I was getting bored after the first minute. The choreography was decent, but the footwork needs improvement, though it slowly got better towards the end. I'd recommend taking this and shooting it in a new environment and move through the location more.
John Vs. Marvin
I don't know how much "choreography" you guys actually planned out, but a lot of this looks improvised or fake. I see you utilized the "swing around" technique to cheat some of the choreography, but it looks bad if you aren't in a tighter shot or have fx added, and is actually off-putting. Try having more consecutive fighting without breaking away (getting punched, falling down, losing your saber, etc), work on selling the fight more with your body movement and acting, and practice more.
Cool costumes, make-up, and effects. I was impressed by the guy's flipping around, but I wasn't impressed by the fight choreography. While I'm a little turned on by the Zabrak chick, she really didn't sell her moves at all, and I mean no offense, but looked bored. I'd recommend you put your efforts to good purpose and have two competitors who can actually fight. I'd also love to see a fight that used the lightsaber whip in it more, rather than just flicking it around.
Nicely done. I really like the location, where'd you shoot it? As far as the choreography goes, be careful how close you get to each other because it looks like stick-bashing at that point. Also be careful with using one hand in fencing-style because it can look silly if not done right. But otherwise I enjoyed it very much and would love to see a sequel/rematch with the one guy missing his head.
Jan vs Tobias
Felt a bit lackluster, but practice more and work on your speed, and it'll be better. I'd also say work on quicker editing as well.
The handwork is some of the best I've seen so far (though I'm watching the videos in order). But you've fallen into stick-bashing territory where you're aiming at each other's blades not their bodies. It's cool and it's fast, but it doesn't sell. Careful how close you get to each other because it looks awkward. I'm impressed though, good luck with future videos. Hopefully you'll get more helpful suggestions.
Rise of the Fallen
Wow, I was blown away by this one. Usually the comp. videos are good at choreography, story, or fx, but you managed to pull them all off together. I'd love to see a breakdown of some of the visual effects. Anyways, I was completely sold on the choreography and would say this is by far my favorite of the comp. so far. 2 questions: where'd you shoot this and how'd you get Vinnie Jones to play the saber-staff guy?
Round 1 Infinity
Nicely done. Gets a little repetative at times, but I enjoyed it.
I dunno if I'd rate this that well on a choreography scale, but it was very entertaining, and I think that the cheesiness was great and should have been played up more. Couldn't help thinking that the guy took lessons at the Albert Wesker School of Acting.
Cool video man. I'd love to know how you did that opening shot that cranes up to the roof. As far as the choreography goes, I liked it but it ventured into stick bashing a few times. Other than that though, I say well done!
The Sith and the Jedi
Very well done. I actually liked the normal-speed stuff more and think the video would have been better and more judgeable at regular speed, because unfortunately the style takes away from the choreography for me. However, I did like the style a lot and think as a short film it was done very well. If I might ask, what's the music from?
In Search of a Master
Nicely done. Kinda refreshing from the Jedi vs Sith stuff most people do. The choreography was great, one of the best this year. The location looks familiar, you mind if I ask where it was filmed? Props for the shwarma-style ending, haha.
My favorite so far (though I'm watching the videos in order). I loved everything about this. The cinematography, the fx, the costumes, and all that with great choreography. This might be the winner right here. The lightsaber whip caught me by surprise, which these videos rarely do. I'd love to see a finished version of this, very well done.
Very nice. Some of my favorite choreography this year. And a funny premise with a good pay-ff (of sorts). I am however bummed that you guys did the arm-blades because that's an idea I've been wanting to use for a couple years, and was actually hoping to use next year for the comp. I had a very similar design, and while I won't feel as original using it, I'll praise you guys for pulling it off so well.
While I can agree a little bit with the "George Lucas School" comment, I'd have to say that I was impressed with the complex and speedy choreography. You definately have the best energy of any of the entries this year. The acting also sold it well. Good job!
Echelon: Boter vs. Vaportrail
Good job guys. I'd like to see the final verison when it's done. I've been absent from the JC for a few years, but I always enjoyed Vaportrail's work.
RvSB | Nemesis
Really well done guys! I loved, LOVED the camerawork. The choreography was solid as well, and it kept my interest for the whole 8 minutes. I'd love to see a version with completed effects and all!
In the end my top choices would be:
2. Rise of the Fallen
3. RvSB | Nemesis
5. The Sith and the Jedi
6. In Search of a Master
@Vapes: what does that mean?
I'm finishing up the effects & sound for Prevail, does anybody have any tips on what I could do to improve it? Is the whip animated good? And also do you guys like the contact flashes I used?
Play around with using some motion blur on the lightwhip (the very first layer, not on top the glow), and then boost the alpha on it so its not so faded and see what that looks like. The thing with sabers is when you roto them the blade is fanning out (motion blur), so you should try to follow suit with the whip to get the same look. Though, with the whip moving like it does that may not come out exactly right, but you may get a very nice surprise.
I was actually of the opinion that the motion of the lightwhip effect was smoother in Child's Play, might want to look at that one, get an opinion of how well they did it then study it a bit.
It means this:
Enjoy, everybody! Again, excellent work and hope to see more from you next year!
Cool LCCX entries compilation vid Vapes.
Some nice entries this year. Good luck to all.
I didn't really like the style of theirs; I think they used a real bullwhip for that one. If you look at pictures of a lightwhip from the comics you'll see that they don't look like a real whips, they are much smoother; that was the style I was going for.
Ah... having not read the comics, I went with what looked more grounded in reality. Kinda back to the ol' dark saber discussion.
DX6, I liked that yours was a bit thicker. Maybe too much in a couple shots, but the whip was drawn very smoothly, unlike some I've seen, which look awkward and lightning-ish.
Plus the spark effects were great. That shot from behind the Jedi as he rolls to escape the whip is one of my favorites moments in the compilation vid.
When will the voting results be out?
I'm working on getting the voting results.
Voting closed on Saturday and we had 254 votes cast, whoo! I think that's a record. I've been busy, but have almost completed verifying that there was no shenaniganizing (no evidence so far) and calculating the results. Assuming the baby doesn't wake up in the next hour or so I should be able to finalize them and get them online.