Saga Least favorite film of the Saga and Why?

That's not bad.

 

I'm thinking that these digressions on plot points of the movies should have their own thread now?

 

I think that this assumes quite a lot of what Yoda and Obi-Wan thought and had no way to know beforehand.
How would they know that Luke's identity would become known to either Vader or Sidious?
I doubt they planned for Luke to make his presence known.
Also, Yoda did not expect Vader to admit that he was Luke's father.
And they also did not want Luke to leave before his trainign was complete and after that, they wanted him to kill/conquer/stop both Vader and Sidous.
Luke was only brought before Sidious because he surrendered to Vader and the only reason he did that is because he believed that his father could be saved. A notion that Obi-Wan seemed to reject.

Other thing, why did they wait three years before telling Luke to go to Yoda?
Luke and Leia are now both hunted by the Empire and both are together so if the empire gets them, both could get killed or captured.
And these two are the only two hopes for the galaxy. And they let the empire chase after them, trying to kill them for three years?

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To me, the reason why I still rate TLJ over the PT, despite it's many flaws, is investment.
With TPM, the film didn't really grab me and the main reason was the characters. I fond them overall rather bland and boring and they didn't seem to care about what happened.
And there the problem is the acting.
So I am not really invested in the film or the story, I am just passively watching the film.

Same problem with AotC, Obi-Wan is a little better but now we have an Anakin that is actively grating to me. And a love story that does not work.
So again, I am not invested and is now annoyed with one of the characters.

RotS is the best because now Anakin works, at least in the first part.
But it still has the bagage of the first two films.

I did like TFA and I was invested with the characters. The film had flaws yes but I was interested and cared about the characters.
TLJ does a lot wrong but I still have my investment with the characters and that makes the film more enjoyable to watch.

Had TLJ been the first film and I didn't have my investment with the characters, then it is possible that I would agree with you.

But this is getting off-topic.

Bye.
Old Stoneface

 

To elaborate further, that's not bad but wouldn't you still criticise Luke for leaving before Snoke & Ben Solo had been dealt with? Would people question why Luke couldn't simply commune with Yoda & Obi-Wan & learn some more wisdom that way?

TPM is & will probably always be my least favourite. It's just dull, ponderous & as several of its own cast members have noted "flat". That's a word that sums it up very well. The movie flat-lines until the final 10 mins or so. Far too little too late by then. A lot of people seem to disagree these days but I think AotC was a big improvement. Sure there are some awful scenes & acting but at least the movie has an exciting momentum.

 

Thanks! I would envision something an opening of

Well, in my mind Luke did try to stop Snoke, and failed, much like Yoda before him. He did find out that Snoke was an individual from the time of origin. Only then did he leave for Ach-To to seek answers, having been told to go there by Yoda.

 

I abstain from voting. I did overall not enjoy the new trilogy sofar (although some elements are great). TLJ is worse than TFA imho, but Abrams setup lots of restrictions for Johnson that had to be dealt with, making it an almost impossible job to make a more satisfying ep 8. I understand that there has also been lots of pressure, fired directors etc. behind the screnes so it 's not fair to blame either Abrams or Johnson.

Disney-Lucasfilm should have done a global approach to the new trilogy, construct at least the general story development for three movies. (Well, maybe they did but it appears to me as if VII and VIII have been written by totally different teams who haven't communicated with each othet)

 

Regarding #3, I would much rather put my hopes in the son of one of the most powerful Jedi ever and a small military than 40 standard Jedi alone.

 

The Last Jedi because of the way the story is structured narratively and is a poor sequel to the Force Awakens. Too many things that just don't make sense and drive me nuts in that movie. Not to mention I really didn't enjoy Luke's characterization in the film or Yoda basically being the crazy version of himself instead of the wise master that Luke came to respect. Oh and Force Ghosts using lightning FFS why not just show up hit Kylo Ren with a bolt and boom trilogy over.... Just don't like that movie!

 

Why?
The Jedi tried to put their hopes in one very powerful Jedi, Anakin, and look what that got them.

Also, the Jedi are not Gods and faced with overwhelming odds, they loose.
So one very powerful Jedi might be better than 3-4 normal Jedi, but not 40.

And why waste resources?
If 40 Jedi survived Order 66 and the purge, why not try to get in touch with them and have multiple plans.
If Luke proves useful, and how could they know that at the end of RotS?'
Then good but where is the harm in having some back up?

The rebel alliance would be far stronger if they had ten or so Jedi helping them.
Other Jedi could be in hiding and others still could look for students and try to train them.

The first draft of ESB, had Luke's sister in hiding in some other place in the galaxy and she was also being trained as a jedi.
This is smart, they have two hopes, both are being trained but not in the same place and it seems that neither knew that the other existed.

So they are not putting all their eggs into one basket.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

The Jedi believe that it was partially their fault for Anakin's turn, so they think they can keep Luke from turning. And one Jedi helping the Rebel Alliance on hit and run missions would raise some suspicions from the Empire, but if 40 Jedi were directly helping the Rebel Alliance? Palpatine would most likely send Vader, along with the 501st and all of his best troops as soon as he found out. We saw how the 501st suddenly attacking multiple Jedi turned out.

 

First, the Empire does not know where the rebel base is located so even if they knew that some Jedi were there, without a location, they can do little.

Second, why would the rebels aiding the rebels make their presence known to the whole galaxy or the empire?
They could be dressed like other rebels and help them in less obvious ways.
If the rebels had to get inside a military facility then I imagine that the mind trick would be very useful.

Third, what if a random accident happens and Luke is killed?
Now their main hope is dead and they have little backup.
Yes they have Leia.
But putting all your eggs into one basket is not smart.
That Luke is the main hope sure but if they know that other Jedi are out there, why squander those resources?
Plan for other outcomes, have back up plans, try to prepare as best you can.

Lastly, again, why did Yoda and Obi-Wan wait three years before telling Luke to come to Yoda?
The empire is now hunting him so he is not protected by being in a remote planet and off the empire's radar.
He is hunted and Leia is with him and if the empire finds them, they could both die or be captured.
And now both hopes are gone.
This seems very risky and needlessly so.

Bye for now.
Blackboard Monitor

 

Sending 40 Jedi instead of 1 makes sense from a practical, worldly point of view. But the Jedi are supposed to be more spiritual and otherworldly than the average, practical person. It seems that the prophecy said that balance would come to the Force through 1 Jedi, not 40, so they were right to place their faith in Luke alone. If I can cross genres for a moment, it was a leap of faith.

 

Their faith in Luke had nothing to do with the prophecy.

 

It's been shown that one Jedi can hide their presence in the force so that they cant be sensed by the Sith, and I'm not sure that 40 Jedi being on one planet wouldn't be able to be sensed by Vader or Palpatine.

Imo it's far less likely that Luke would die of an accident than a random Jedi, considering that Luke's mentors have both taught him not to be reckless.

I agree with that, Obi-Wan should have told Luke to train with Yoda like right after the destruction of the Death Star.

 

I think that I have to make one thing clear, I am talking about the period after RotS and before ANH.
If 40-50 Jedi did survive and Yoda and Obi-Wan knew that, then to me, it makes little sense to squander those resources and not try to reach out to them and try and make some sort of back-up plan.

That they would not ignore all that just because "Oh we have Luke and he'll solve all our problems when he is grown up."
Back then, even if a random accident was not very likely, the result would be a disaster if Luke were to suddenly die. So trying to contact some of the other Jedi and make some sort of plan. That some will hide out in the fringe, others could go to Bail Organa and help him. And others still could look for potential new recruits.

In short, having 40 Jedi very useful and even if Yoda/Obi-Wan have Luke as their master plan, they would be rather dumb to let those Jedi fend for themselves and not even try to use them in some way.

As for sensing others with the Force, it is not very consistent in the films.
Vader and Palpatine could sense Luke from across the galaxy in ESB. And Vader could sense Luke on the shuttle in RotJ but Palpatine could not.
Luke could sense that Vader was on Endor.
Vader did not sense Obi-Wan when he was over Tatooine, only when Obi-Wan was much closer.
Anakin did not seem to sense Obi-Wan hiding in Padme's ship in RotS.

So what would happen or not is hard to say for sure.
And having all 40 Jedi with the rebel base is not smart. Spread your forces out when you are this outnumbered so that not all is lost of one base falls.

Bye for now.
Blackboard Monitor

 

Attack of the Clones was too boring to me as a kid. Lucas wanted SW to appeal to kids but there's just a badly done love subplot that's only redeemed by auralnauts' 'EP 2: the friend zone'. However it did give one of my fave scenes, which is badly acted but has tons of character depth, and that's Anakin killing the sand people in revenge for his mom. It showed why he wanted to save Padme so badly, how alone he felt, how the jedi didn't understand him, etc. I thought that was brilliant on Lucas's part. If only he showed Anakin to be more of a hero then the fall would've been more tragic

 

Oh good I'm glad I didn't just hallucinate that video.

 

ROTS
It was so disappointing for me.
First battle was great but after that I was not happy. Sudden irrational change in Anakin, Padme nowhere to be found and the last stupid battle on the floating pads.

Most of all, whole prequel story make no sense when you consider world in ANH only 20 years later and ROTS didnt repair that problem.

 

I love AOTC and I still love that video.

 

Although I don't "love" AoTC I like it a lot better than the other two "least liked" (been gone for a couple of weeks, always interesting to see how the poll has evolved in the meantime).

 

The Last Jedi and it's not close. It completely ruins the character of Luke Skywalker and the OT as a whole. I cannot overstate how much I detest this film.

 

The Phantom Menace. Everything is just kind of dull. There are some great scenes in it though, and little Anakin is absolutely adorable.

 

The Empire Strikes Back - I hate how the perspective switches and there's no ending.

 

For me, it will always be Attack of the Clones - even though it was the first Star Wars movie I saw. My opinion was solidified after rewatching it again recently, for several reasons.

• The movie is perhaps the least engaging of any of Star Wars films, its flat out boring to watch. Even if the film starts out with a bang (literally), it is plagued with the same issue as the rest of the prequels - long scenes where people talk at each other. That in itself wouldn't be so bad, but the setpieces are usually flat and use basic shot-reverse shot technique that makes everything feel drab. Half the film seems devoted to scenes of this nature, which certainly doesn't cause it to be very interesting.
• The CGI has aged like cottage cheese in the summer sun. It's an unfortunate fact that the CGI in the prequels has not aged well, and the overreliance on special effects makes all the environments seem incredibly fake. Kamino especially looks artificial, as do most of the other grand environments, which in turn takes me out of the scene. Near the end when the clones arrive and it devolves into one giant battle scene, there is no weight to anything and it proves unengaging.
• The romance between Padame and Anakin was not very well-executed, and given that it too takes up a lot of screen time the entire arc drags the story down. I'm not sure if it's just a dialogue issue, or of the chemistry between the actors is off, but it doesn't make sense within the context of the movie why they get together. Padame expresses early on that Anakin was making her uncomfortable, and later listens in on his admission to slaughtering women and children in cold blood. Seeing as Padame comes from a peace-loving world and is a very compassionate person, it doesn't seem well-within whats established that they end up marrying at the very end. Dialogue for these bits needed a lot of re-tooling, that goes for most of the film too.
• Speaking of Padame, she is shown in the movie to be a senator and no longer a queen like she was in the last movie. While I'm sure this is explained in other media, there really is no established explanation by my recollection as to why there is this change. It would seem very confusing for any casual Star Wars moviegoer as to why there is a change - especially when she still has a body double working for her on the ship. Is that something all Senators get, or just her?
• Count Dooku's sudden appearance in this movie is also a jarring change from the previous film - as he's an antagonist that just seems to appear out of nowhere without any established mention in the Phantom Menace. It makes everything seem rather disjointed to have a have this antagonist spring out of nowhere. Dooku should have at least been mentioned or implied in the last movie, to make an easier transition. Without the Emperor puppeting events in the background, there'd be a lack of any real explanation as to why he's a major figure so suddenly.

Those are just several of my complaints, but I wanted to trim it down to the few that stood out to me as of this time of writing. I just am put to sleep by what happens in this movie, which isn't really something that happens when I watch the other films. While The Last Jedi may have more inconsistencies when it comes to the world at large, there are many setpieces and directorial choices that at least make it worth watching. Attack of the Clones is a film I'd much rather just skip over.

But hey, that's just my opinion!

 

I'm constantly going back and forth between TFA and TLJ. Interestingly, they're a very different type of bad to me, the former being somewhat inoffensive given it's so much like a pastiche, but one entirely lacking in creative ambition. The latter, however, does feel like a more personal work striving to make some type of meaningful statement, but for me it's so messy and reliant on warped character logic and motivation that I actually prefer the soulless homage approach.

So yeah, TLJ by a hair I suppose, in terms of bottoming out my rankings.