Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Bazinga'd
, Dec 14, 2017.
You shall be burned at the stake for heresy
do I not get a last meal request at least?
Hmm this is hard. I’d have to go with ROTJ at the moment. I still love it though
I think this is just the effect of a movie being the middle child. The first set of films in both trilogies set up so much that the middle film does feel a bit fluffy at times, more then it should.
Of all the non-arguments, this has to be the funniest yet.
To quote TFA, "That's not how the Force works."
Imagine actually believing this.
To quote TLJ "Your mother"
Yes, this makes the movie bad
Good, save your breath. STOP DEFENDING THE LAST GARBAGE!
General warning. Stop with all the flaming posts/responses. Act civilly to the opinion of others. @anakinfansince1983
To quote TFA, "That's not how the Force works."
THATS HOW SPACE WORKS
Ok guys it's time for part two.
Rey is only a better fighter then Luke because she force pulled a lightsaber to her when he only had a stick
That's just an opinion
Ok, that i can understand
No, those specific rich people were evil because of how they got rich
Humor is completely subjective, what about that scene in episode 5, where Leia kisses Luke, wasn't that supposed to be funny, now every time i watch it i have to explain to the new fan in the room that they didn't know they were related yet. Just look at any of the humor in the prequels.
He never said Ray didn't need training, he said she didn't need the books
Luke saw Kylo's future, and thought he could save the galaxy, but what he actually did was set the events in motion.
That can be left for ep. 9, or the books and comics.
Ray being a random is the only one that nobody predicted, it was the only one that was surprising
Can you please explain why this is bad
What makes Luke returning in spirit form good, is that nobody went to the island and forced him to do it, he made that choice by himself. And i don't understand what Virginity has to do with any of this. Luke had a wife in the old canon, if that makes you feel any better.
I'm going to go ahead and say it, Rey might be more powerful in the force than Luke, and moving rocks isn't that advanced.
I didn't see any lens flares, but whatever.
I am in no way attacking this guy, i am just responding to his arguments. I know what the mods are like on here, so to i know better that to personally attack someone
Actually, what he meant was that she already had the books. The books are safe on board the Falcon, not in the tree.
There were plenty of lens flares in the film. Just like there were plenty of lens flares in the older movies (especially the prequels).
I agree pretty strongly with one of Benster ‘s points: Canto Blight is not an indictment on rich people. It’s an indictment on war profiteering, which is evil.
If there were no honest nonexploitative ways to make money, that would be an indictment on our world, but I don’t believe that is the case.
I think its both. We know from Rose's perspective its about war profiteering and we see it in the actions of DJ. But with all the extravagance and opulence of Canto Blight, its hard to ignore the social commentary.
The Phantom Menace. No question.
Admittedly, I have a hard time accepting Disney's movies as 'real' SW (though without any opinion whatsoever on how other's should view them - I am very tired of fans and anti-fans alike touting their own interpretation of SW and the new movies as the only correct one, and dismissings other views as a failure to properly understand SW/the new movies), which automatically makes TFA and TLJ the only real contenders for the title here. (Ok, R1 is a Disney movie, but it works with the old movies rather than cheapening the ending of ROTJ in order to tell the same story one more time, so I don't mind it so much. Also, Big DV! <3 )
While I had more fun watching TLJ in the theatre (in spite of the gags... !) than I had watching TFA, the more I think about it, the less I like it. The main problems for me are:
a, Luke's character development which... just doesn't work for me, and I can't make it. I can - in theory - appreciate a narrative investigating what happens when a very idealistic and optimistic person has to deal with abject failure, and I think the point that we are none of us immune to depression is an important one to make. But here, with Luke, I don't buy it. (AND I'm mad about being stuck with a new EU where Luke is busy morosing all over a remote island rather than doing awesome things, because I love Luke and I WANT THOSE AWESOME STORIES.) (Also, milking a giant beast. Did not need that, even if I think it's reasonable to assume Luke is deliberatedly trying to gross Rey out to get her to leave.)
b, that everything seems to be there for the sake of the plot, rather than as a result of characters' and galaxy's nature, if that makes any sense. I just don't buy into the worldbuilding, and SW has never felt smaller. And, unlike TFA, it ends without any interesting set-up for the next installment: it just promises us more battles, and no real reason for me to be invested in the outcome.
c, where are my excellent villains at? Snoke was utterly pointless, and while I rather like him being offed so unceremoniously, I also want answers - where did he come from? His death left me feeling very unsatisfied, even if the Rey and Kylo team-up was the highlight of this movie for me. As for Kylo - what does he even want? He's been given no proper motivation at all. Snoke started poisoning his mind when he was young and then he was traumatized by Luke trying to kill him? Okay, fair enough, that's bound to mess with anyone, but I'm still not seeing what he truly WANTS, or why he should want it. He does get bonus points for being a hardcore Vader fan, though - me too, Kylo, me too. Hux is over the top and thus boring. I can only imagine what my darlings Piett and Veers would think of his undignified behaviour... Phasma was criminally underdeveloped.
d, I really missed the new trio sharing screen-time. Finn, Rey and Poe was the highlight of TFA for me, and I would have loved to see more of them together. (Side note: Like with Luke, in theory I'm all for the new superpowered hero being a nobody, but with this being SW and part of the Skywalker saga I'm not really digging it here. After TFA I was hopeful that her being so extremely skilled without training would be explained by her actually having had some training earlier, but apparently not. :/ )
Admittedly, a lot of these issues are the result of the set-up in TFA, but I still consider TFA a better movie, because it felt like cohesive whole and worked better structurally.
Had I chosen amongst the movies I consider actual SW movies, I'd say AOTC - it's weirdly structured too and just doesn't interest me as much as the other movies.
Easily TLJ. My reasoning is that it was honestly the most incoherent film I've ever seen, much less the worst SW film. None of it made much sense on any level. The prequels were flawed but at least they were coherent. TLJ was all over the place. And what they did to Luke's character and the concept of the Force...And what they did to every single plot point built up in TFA....For shame, for shame.
You raise a good point. Maybe it's because of the simplistic writing, maybe it's because of the direction taken but I cannot honestly accept the Disney films as anything but fanfiction. It's not even because of the absence of Lucas. There's just something "off", something that doesn't quite hit the mark, about any of the films Disney has released so far. Parts of Rogue One and parts of TFA come the closest to feeling like real SW films but those bits sadly don't outweigh the bulk of the films which really do just feel like high budget fanfiction put to film.
I wish they hadn't cut a lot of Padme's scenes. Have you ever seen the deleted scenes of Padme in ROTS? She comes off a lot better and is given a lot more agency. Honestly, as much as I dislike Natalie Portman as an actress, I actually liked her as Padme. She was a strong female lead in TPM and AOTC and then in ROTS she barely does anything, kind of a let down.
My least favorite is Attack of the Clones. I find that a lot of the acting and dialogue is not that good (and when the two are together, it's even worse) and the characters generally seem lifeless and hard to connect to. I have found that generally, my most favorite of the movies to date are from the original and sequel trilogies and I think that being able to connect with those characters is what makes them such high favorites for me.
Now, I do like Attack of the Clones. The stuff with Obi-Wan is good, the Geonosis stuff is fun, and the late Christopher Lee as Dooku is a treat. But, I find that I like all the other movies better, and I think its that they dodge the traps this one fell into a lot better.
Attack of the Clones, followed closely by TLJ. It just carries this dull vibe throughout, and it’s kind of hard to explain why.
I love TLJ, but I agree about Attack of the Clones. It's somehow missing the life that the other ones had.
I love all the SW movies so far, but creativity and originality are things I value highly in writing, music, art and film and for that reason The Force Awakens is my least favorite SW film.
Also, I do not appreciate the self aware MCU type humor being shoe horned into SW just because Disney owns both properties.
I will gladly take GL's brilliant Attack of the Clones, quirks and idiosyncrasies and all, over the cultural homogenization that is making many art forms rather formulaic and rudimentary.
This is how I feel as well. Some of the things I originally had issues with have been resolved through research and discussion but not enough to rate this film any higher on my list of favorites. Rian's comments in interviews don't help the situation for me either. I've asked myself on more than one occasion whether or not I watched the same films Rian did growing up. For example, his comments on how he felt that Rey being a "nobody" shows that you don't have to be from a special family in order to use the Force. Were the PT films not full of alien species and different humans who were not Skywalker but were Jedi or Sith and could use the Force? I feel like he tried to explain something that honestly didn't need to be.
By some objective standards, I think TLJ is a different movie then the rest of the saga. So when we say "least favorite movie" are we really saying that our opinion is based on the differences rather than how we feel about the story line?
I'd guess it varies from person to person. Some people are more bothered by problems or choices in the crafting of the film, others seem to have more subjective criticisms of the story not being what they wanted (e.g. I don't like the current Amazing Spider-Man comic series not because the writing is bad, but I don't agree with the way the character's story is going, much like how some TLJ viewers were unhappy with Luke's story because they didn't feel that's what should've happened).
OK, I haven't seen TLJ or R1 yet, so sue me. After TFA I just lost all interest in Disney-style SW. Also no theater nearby seems to play TLJ in the original version (non-dubbed) where I live. Or maybe it's just the closest movie theater's website search engine isn't working. In any case I just couldn't be bothered enough to make an effort to watch it. I'll catch it some day on the web or whatever.
Not giving reasons right now. The reasons are there in countless other threads and probably better expressed by other users. Best to worst:
1. ANH: well, it was the first, what made me interested in the saga in the first place
2. AOTC - ROTS: yes, pretty much a tie for me, at the moment at least
6. TFA: even after years I'm still reluctant to accept this as part of the saga, sorry....