LEGACY #0

Discussion in 'Literature' started by wild_karrde, Feb 12, 2006.

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  1. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 7
    In the prequel trilogy, Darth Sidious was trying to destroy the last of the Jedi. Doesn't mean they're is only a few, it doesn't have anything to do with numbers at all, just trying to sound dramatic to attract attention. That's advertising. They wouldn't advertise "an old Senator tries to destroy the thousands and thousands of Jedi Knights" for the prequel trilogy. Why would they for this?

    Example,

    The Unseen Queen

    The epic Star Wars odyssey enters a new frontier as the heroes of the New Jedi Order confront a monstrous evil?insidious, unseen, and insatiable. . . .

    Despite being given new worlds to populate, the insectoid Killiks have not found peace. An unknown enemy has been attacking the new nests?and the Killiks hold the Jedi responsible. Traveling back to the Unknown Regions to unravel the mystery, the Skywalkers and Solos discover an evil far more familiar than they ever expected . . . and even more terrifying. Why does the Dark Nest want to kill Mara? Will Jacen?s apocalyptic vision trigger another galactic war or prevent one? And perhaps most ominous of all, what deadly secret are the Killiks hiding?

    To find out, Luke, Mara, Han, and Leia must embark on a perilous journey into the uncharted void between right and wrong. The ferocious Unknown Terrors are only the beginning of the awesome challenges that lie ahead in their quest to fathom the unfathomable. For an obscure dispute is about to explode into chaos, pitting Jedi against Jedi?and threatening the very galaxy itself.


    Do you see what I mean now?
  2. Commander5052 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2005
    star 4
    Darth Fudd... He was a cartoon character the same as your father. He betrayed and murdered Warner Brothers. [/Obi-wan] :p
  3. Master_Shan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2005
    star 3
    That was a shamefull bit of marketing, I agree...almost as bad as TSW, but using the word "last" in that sense is...riddiculous. Its like...saying im trying to wipe out the last of the brittish when the brittish population is as healthy as ever, JUST becaue there is no back-up group of brits hidden in germany or something. Thers only one jedi order...so anytime anyone attacks them there trying to wipe out the last of the jedi? Come on that makes no sense.
  4. jfostrander Writer: -Legacy -Republic/Jedi/Purge

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    OOO:
    >>I was being facetious, incidentally. <<

    So was i.

    Sometimes i wonder if I should have a big flashing sign that says "JOKE!".

    Just kidding.<g>

    JOKE!

    -- John
  5. jfostrander Writer: -Legacy -Republic/Jedi/Purge

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    star 4
    Master Shan:
    >>But seriously I feel awkward reading about luke and co. now, cuz in my head im just thinking its all for not, your gonna be wiped out AGAIN. <<

    Sigh.

    I've been reading this argument and variations of it ("Since the peace they established wasn't lasting, everything Luke et al did was for nought.") and I Just Don't Buy It.

    1) It assumes a state of stasis as being optimum. What was once done should be for all time (or a long time) to have validity and meaning. That the achievements and victories and sacrifices of one generation need to last forever or it was all for nought. I don't agree. The victories and sacrifices of those who fought in WW1 are not cheapened or invalidated because WW2 happened twenty years later. Each generation faces its own challenges. That's true in life and we're trying to create something that is true. SW is myth but it has a grounding in reality or it has no relevance to our lives.

    2) You don't know what's in LotF yet. So you don't know what condition the Jedi or the galaxy are left in by the end of it. I'm not commenting one way or another on it but why don't you see THAT as a potential threat to everything Luke has done? Aren't you concerned that what happens there might also make everything Luke has done for nothing?

    3) One hundred years have passed from the end of LotF to Legacy (approx.). That's a longer period, potentially, of peace for the galaxy (possibly) and for the Jedi to grow (possibly)than has occured since the Clone Wars. (I say possibly because we haven't filled that in too much beyond what we need for our series; we want to leave it open for what others may do.)

    4) This argument presumes there must be a "reward" for Luke et al for what they have done. Taken to its logical conclusion, NOTHING should have been done following the end of RotJ. If they all don't live "Happily Ever After", then it was all for nought -- according to the argument.

    To my view, that makes for a stagnant SW -- and a stagnant SW is a dead SW, IMO.

    Launching the new series means we need a major villain and a major occurence. That's what really drives SW overall. SW is epic and epic things must occur. You need to create a framework, a backdrop, for that. It is Star WARS, after all.

    Look, I appreciate that some people genuinely have concerns and maybe some just don't like the sound of what we're doing in LEGACY. That's fine. I respect that. Nothing I have ever done appeals to 100% of the audience. That's just a given. I really am not belittling your concern, Shan, or those like you.

    But I really don't agree with the premise of your argument and the above is why. Things CHANGE; it's part of life. And that's something that SW should reflect as well. "Happily Ever After" means the story is OVER, IMO. I don't think it is.

    With due respect

    -- John

    PS To keep with the name of the thread, I'll just say that LEGACY 0 will have a lot more information. Not all but a lot.
  6. Rouge77 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2005
    star 5
    Peaceful galaxy is not in my mind a same thing as stagnated galaxy. Change for the sake of change is not a good thing. And really, a galaxy of millions of inhabited planets can´t never be totally in peace, there will always be local conflicts. When we think of the scope of the galaxy, even these "local conflicts" can be huge... So I would like to see the galaxy as a whole to have peace. It doesn´t need to be wrecked, when one can as well wreck a sector of a galaxy or a cluster of stars. Especially when all stories, whether they are precented in the form of books, comics or movies - or like SW, in all of them - can only tell a tiny bit of the story as a whole. Not all masterpieces of art are painted on huge canvases, so why use the whole galaxy as a canvas? On Earth the Thirty Years War was a devastating conflict, even when it was mainly fought in a one country... So, I would like to see a Jedi Order - that isn´t on the brink of a destruction - handling "local conflicts" instead of seeing a galaxy that is torn apart every few decades or centuries in huge conflicts. I don´t mean that LEGACY would be like that, as I don´t know what it´s true setting will be. I just hope that it just doesn´t take a huge wrecking ball and hit the galaxy with it. Nero thought that it was best to build on ruins, I hope that the SW franchise doesn´t follow him.
  7. BobaMatt TFN EU Staff

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    1) It assumes a state of stasis as being optimum. What was once done should be for all time (or a long time) to have validity and meaning. That the achievements and victories and sacrifices of one generation need to last forever or it was all for nought. I don't agree. The victories and sacrifices of those who fought in WW1 are not cheapened or invalidated because WW2 happened twenty years later. Each generation faces its own challenges. That's true in life and we're trying to create something that is true. SW is myth but it has a grounding in reality or it has no relevance to our lives.

    But the point of myth is not merely to show us what we already know. It's the mythic quality that makes us want the epic struggle in which the heroes have been involved, triumph after triumph, to leave a lasting impact on the galaxy, to "last for 1,000 years" as so many people, drawing on myths to create mythic status, seem to be fond of saying.

    Of course, this isn't necessarily threatened by Legacy. The truth is we don't yet know what the imprint left by our heroes is, since we have not yet been given much storyline. Bashing it because it may or may not sound vaguely reminiscent of a fanfic you once read is juvenile. In the end, the writers do what any fanfic writer does, albeit with more resources at their fingertips. They tell stories in the Star Wars universe. How about we stop bashing the entire comic based on a tiny, vague teaser summary and give the writers the benefit of the doubt that they are, like anyone else here, Star Wars fans interested in the good of the Galaxy? Let's at least wait until the issue comes out.

    By the way, can we expect any more tidbits of info before May?
  8. Zorrixor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Though I'm looking forward to LEGACY myself I can see where people are coming from not wanting Luke's achievements to be watered down.

    I think a problem is that in the Star Wars mythology if you compare the peace that was established after the Battle of Ruusan to the peace Luke will probably leave when he finally passes away it will seem somewhat trivial. After all, while it wasn't a perfect state of peace, there were 1000 years peace from the Sith at the very least, even if they eventually returned to screw the galaxy up worse than ever before.

    I think that's part of the problem people have. We can look at real life and while its certainly true that there has never been any stretch of peace for more than about 50 years, in Star Wars everything is bigger, the galaxy, the technology, and even the time periods, stretching into the thousands of years (a scary fact: the Jedi Order was meant to have existed for longer than our entire known history in real life, we know very little of things 5000 years ago, yet the Jedi Order stood for 25,000). If you just look at the films when Obi-Wan says "for a thousand generations the Jedi were the guardians of peace and justice" it brings a sense of awe for just how successful the Jedi Order had been, even if Obi-Wan was exaggerating a little.

    From a realistic point of view you can obviously argue Luke did a great job re-establishing the Jedi Order, one that will presumably also stand for a thousand generations, but that obviously Luke isn't going to magically have fixed everything in one lifetime, when it took the previous Jedi Order thousands of years to get everything right - and even then they weren't perfect!

    As I said, I don't have a problem with this, and I personally think its sensible that Luke's Jedi Order will need challenges to help it grow and evolve, but I can see where other people are coming from when they seem a bit disheartened that Luke's Order appears to have achieved much less than the previous (as clearly 100 < 1000). If, as I'm expecting, when LEGACY is released everyone realises the Jedi Order hasn't been destroyed and that the new Sith threat isn't going to be anywhere on the scale of Palpatine I'm sure most of the fears people have will quickly go away, but until they get that confirmation they're still going to worry about the idea that Luke couldn't achieve a length of peace anywhere near the duration of the ones the previous Jedi Order managed to sustain.

    Of course you could just say "there wasn't peace between the Battle of Ruusan and the rise of the Empire, that period just hasn't been explored", which would probably be true if and when that period is ever explored in the EU, but pessimists just don't think that way...
  9. Rouge77 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2005
    star 5
    If, as I'm expecting, when LEGACY is released everyone realises the Jedi Order hasn't been destroyed and that the new Sith threat isn't going to be anywhere on the scale of Palpatine I'm sure most of the fears people have will quickly go away...

    I would be pretty satisfied if this would turn out to be the case... Now if they would also put a decent Galactic Republic and a couple of Solo descendants in, I would have nothing to whine about.;)
  10. wild_karrde Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 1999
    star 7
    I just think it's funny the assumptions that some people make:

    1) An Empire must be evil - Says who? Pellaeon's Empire sure isn't, they're basically good guys as of the end of the NJO.

    2) "Last of the Jedi" means Cade is the only one - Why? Keep in mind that as of the end of DN there were less than 100 fully trained Jedi Knights/Masters. One well-placed nuke and the Jedi Order goes bye-bye.

    3) The Sith returning negates the Prophecy - Since when? All it said in the films was that Anakin would bring Balance to the Force. Never said how, the Jedi just assumed that it would be by destroying the so-called "dark side". We all know that the Old Jedi Order were wrong about a lot, which is why they died out, so who says they were right in reading it? Even Yoda admits as much in RotJ.

    4) There has been no lasting peace - how do you know? How do you know that after LotF the galaxywasn't a peace for 99.5 years? Like I said before, even 10 consecutive years of peace in the GFFA would be quite the accomplishment. Peace is an unnatural state for nature.

    5) Cade is a greasy badass anti-hero because he has long hair, a tattoo, and wears a sleaveless undershirt - don't even get me started. How many internet geeks have long greasy hair? How many have ink? How many dress in ratty clothes?



    Question for John or Jan - what sort of format will issue #0 take? Will it be a short story like the KOTOR/Rebellion flipbook is supposed to take, or will it be more like a handbook with entries for different characters, places, ships, etc?
  11. Zorrixor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Saying that, I will be so happy if there is actually a nice empire for a change. This has become a problem with society in general in that people just seem to have made the word "empire" synonymous with "evil". Its as if governments MUST be bad and ruled by evil dictators unless they're a republic.

    I've always wondered if Star Wars is actually to blame, given how iconic the "evil empire" has become, or if its just all the filth they waffle on about in British schools teaching us to hate our history and making us feel as if we should be ashamed about everything we've ever done.

    The Roman Empire doesn't have this problem, people have always been in love with that and seen it as great, so why is it empires must always been seen as evil? :(
  12. Rouge77 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2005
    star 5
    The problem with Empires is that far more than Republics they are "good" or "bad" depending on who rules them. Pellaeon´s Imperial Remnant is "good", because Pellaeon is a relatively decent guy in the end and is able to act reasonably and isn´t - for example - a paranoid maniac who likes killing people for the sake of it. On the hands of some person like this Pellaeon´s Imperial Remnant would have been "evil". So the character of a single person can make Empire "good" or "bad". Of course, "good" Republics can quickly change to "bad" Empires, as we have seen, both in SW and in real world.

    EDIT:What comes to the Roman Empire, people have not been in love as much with the real Roman Empire, than the ideal of it, the ideas that it embodied to them. So that when people speak about the Roman Empire, they really are speaking of their very own version of it, that has never existed in that form outside their own mind and their writings.
  13. BobaMatt TFN EU Staff

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    star 6
    BTW, it seems that the Empire and the Jedi are together in their fight against the Sith, so...
  14. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 7
    Re: Roman versus British Empires...

    Give it about 1400 years and people will be getting all nostalgic for the British Empire, much as we do for the Romans...

    JB
  15. MercenaryAce Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2005
    star 5
    "The Roman Empire doesn't have this problem, people have always been in love with that and seen it as great" Now a adys the trend has been to portray the Roman Empire as evil. They did make people fight to the deaath (oky, not usualy to the death, but it did happen a lot) for family fun, were agresive expansiontic, had slave, committed inumerable war crimes qnd so on. course, I don't judg old countries because no country back then was good.

    Oh, and non-republics are inherantly evil, IMO. People are easily curropteble, and the more power you give them, the more they will abuse. Great and kind dictators who actualy care about the people do exist, but they are an exception.

    Actualy, you know what would be nice. For Star Wars to actualy stick up for democracy for once. Throughout all those books, all you ever hear about is how corrupt the system is, and how ineffeceint it is, and how stupid the masses are. I don't think I've heard one kind word about democracy in any star wars story.
  16. jfostrander Writer: -Legacy -Republic/Jedi/Purge

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    >>Question for John or Jan - what sort of format will issue #0 take? Will it be a short story like the KOTOR/Rebellion flipbook is supposed to take, or will it be more like a handbook with entries for different characters, places, ships, etc?<,

    More like a handbook but don't expect it to answer ALL your questions. It'll probably start a few more firefights.<g>

    -- John
  17. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    May 28, 2003
    star 6
    Right now my main hope is that their is at least some good government to route for, whether it is the Galactic Alliance or not. I can accept more wars and such, but I really like having a government or organization to root for.

    Is there any chance of that in this new series Mr. Ostrander? I am not fishing for spoilers, so if you cannot divulge that info I understand.

    --Adm. Nick
  18. Joser_Kyind Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 10, 2005
    star 4
    John, I'm really looking forward to Legacy, but May seems way too far away. Any chance you could give us some sort of cryptic clue that will make sense once we've read issue zero, but will keep us occupied trying to puzzle it out until then?
  19. jfostrander Writer: -Legacy -Republic/Jedi/Purge

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    Gang

    i know you want more info, even cryptic clues, but I really did promise DH I'd stay tight-lipped about this.

    -- John
  20. JacenSolo89 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 22, 2005
    star 2
    I think LEGACY is a great idea. Hope it's cannon...

    Here's my assumption on what it's about:

    Sometime after LOTF, the Jedi Order continues to do well. Ben Skywalker takes up the mantle of Grand Jedi Master after Luke is dead (which will most likely happen, I'm sorry to say). Ben marries a woman and they have a child. Ben raises the child and the child eventually grows up to marry another woman (or man) and they have Cade Skywalker. Cade starts his Jedi training, but never finishes it because either a) he feels responsible for the death of a friend or something or b) because he simply doesn't want to be famous just because his last name is Skywalker (living in the Skywalker shadow). Cade leaves the Order at around the age of twenty or so and decides to become a pirate/bounty hunter and meets Rav and blah blah blah.

    Meanwhile, the Jedi Order is in a crisis. The dreaded Sith have returned. The Galactic Alliance becomes the "Empire" to basically try to strike back at the Sith. The Jedi and Sith duke it out in a all out war, ending with Ben (if he's not already dead) or Cade's father's demise. The Jedi Order starts to panic now that their leader(s) are dead and run for the hills to try and solve this problem.

    At this time, maybe the Force ghost of Luke Skywalker appears to Cade and tells him what has happened.

    I'm not saying any of this is true. It's probably not even close. That's just what I'm assuming. Also, this reminds me of KOTOR 2 with the Jedi Exile...John, may you give us a hint? Or at leats let me know if I'm close or on the right track?
  21. wild_karrde Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 1999
    star 7
    That's cool, I like a long, unfolding serial (like LOST, which is on in 50 minutes, yay!). That handbook format is a good way to intro some of the characters so we'll at least have a bit of background info and therefore fewer panels in the actual comic will be needed for that :)
  22. Havac Former Moderator

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2005
    star 7
    Whaddya mean, 1400 years? I'm nostalgic now.;)
  23. wild_karrde Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 1999
    star 7
    Being French-Canadian, I'm not so much nostalgic for the Brits :p
  24. Zorrixor Force Ghost

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    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    That is true I guess, especially since people would dislike the Romans more if they focused on their empire as a whole and not just the fairy-tale parts of it about heroic gladiators and other things, when in fact there was all kinds of slavery and political corruption that they'd condemn if they knew more about it.

    Still... while empires generally are a bad thing in real life, thats part of whats meant to be fun about things like Star Wars - they're not real. They're meant to be about escaping reality. Personally I don't like it when books and films try to 'champion democracy' or whatever else, I don't want them to be politically correct, I want them to be fun and enjoyable.

    Pellaeon and the Remnant is a nice example of that, its actually a nice empire for a change. The same is true to a degree about the Hapans as well. Just because something has the name "Empire" in it doesn't mean we should automatically think its evil, especially since most of the time in fiction the name the author uses isn't correct according to political theory anyway, but just designed to sound cool. I prefer diversity than just seeing everything use the word "Republic". Its not as if its uncommon in fiction to see "empires" ruled by democratically elected representatives, but just called "an empire" because it sounds better than calling it a "federalist republic" or something equally bland.
  25. Charlemagne19 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    Counterpoint, Rome for all of its horrors should be taken in context.

    If you focus on the worst parts of say Rome and China...yes they deserve condemnation.

    Plenty of aspects of our own society deserve it.

    However, one would be hard pressed to argue the societies outside Rome were preferrable.
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