Legacy #50: Extremes, part 3 (of 3)

I think characters that got cut in half by a lightsaber can be presumed dead, but thats just me.

I just don't think your giving an accurate portrayal of the scene and are jumping to conclusions that even you don't think are true. There is a lack of evidence to support you claim, both IU and OU and its already confusing fans that look upon the Wookieepedia as a "source" for information.

Now if we actually had a character declaring that they felt him die that would be different, that would be evidence, what was presented is far more subjective.

 

You know, I like this theory. I think that the Nict's should be one of those Anaxsi families that has a traditional of naval service that stretches back to the Old Republic.

Then again, I do have a bias.

--Adm. Nick

 

Sinre: It could happen, I like it.

Very appropriate.

And here's the kicker, the 'evidence' is even subjective to the particular characters involved. When Talon killed Elke, Marasiah immediately says, "I felt that Sith kill Elke." She does not say that in this situation and it concerns the love of her life? Denial? Possible. However, I would expect a much stronger reaction from her if she truly believed Antares had just died.

The same thing with Shado. He believed Cade Skywalker was dead, for years.

Yet, Cade wasn't dead.

Cade was Shado's BFF and it's highly probably that Vao was much more in tune with Cade than he is Draco, and he was still wrong. I like Shado, he's a fine Jedi Knight and fantastic with the sword, but his track record at calling death is 0 and 1.

So, again, no evidence of a death, just one vague comment and assumption made by Shado who isn't an eye wittness and certainly isn't infallible when determing death through Force feelings, which vary from user to user.



Jeff, as far as Azard goes, he got the Kenobi Special For Sith Lords, so yeah, I'll go ahead and call that one. Had that happened to Antares, I'd call it, regardless of my affection for him.

Of course they would kill one of only two of the One Sith that I like in a total making-fun-of them kinda way. I loved the fun John would poke at him in the narrative, 'Darth Azard is not one bit pleased at being bossed around by this silly little scientist,' or words to that effect. That, and when, he called Tries a 'Fel Forceling,' only to have his ass Force pushed off the boarding ramp. Loved it. He made me laugh, when I needed to.




I'm not upset that he died though.

 

But, since you insist on ignoring that...

It isn't the article's place to make assumptions or draw conclusions based on vague author statements. The article has presented the situation as it canonically happened, and will continue to do so until contrary canon, or authorial confirmation, occurs.

Your assertion that what happened on the page is subjective --- which is an argument independent of what Jan said --- is a fallacious argument which asserts that comics as a medium are inherently subjective. How do we know that Azard was cut in half? The single panel that shows Sazen slicing him could just be a deep gash. The fact is, Draco's two best friends in the entire galaxy feel him die in the Force. What more do you want? A coroner's report? An obituary? A funeral? Legacy had only twenty-two pages to wrap up. Stating that Draco died is an accurate portrayal of the scene.

Regarding Jan's statement, there's too much we don't know about War or Draco's arc in it. What she said is not enough evidence of his survival to contradict what was canonically presented on the page. And what was canonically presented on the page was death. Yes, I believe that he's alive, but that's based on hunch and hope, not on canon. As I said, until contrary canon or authorial confirmation occurs, the article will represent what was canonically presented. And that's death. Anything else is fanon, plain and simple. Jan's statement is noteworthy in the "Behind the scenes" section, and that's all.

 

And thus is why the Wookieepedia will always fail in my eyes.......

If canon is not clear the need to write fanon shouldn't be the answer, but then I've argued this before with no result. In any case Jeff, I'm willing to give you your Wookieepedia, I'm just not willing to reccomend anyone use the site to deterimne facts.

Poor Ephin Saretti can't even enjoy his retirement, no doubt another judgement call I disagree with.

 

If you can make an actual case for the canon not being clear in this case, go for it. But you haven't yet. But ZOMG you're kewler than Wookieepedia!!!!!2 so why is there even a need for you to make a convincing argument?

 

On a milder note, a Darth Wyyrlok fan costume is this week's sw.com costume contest. Whoa.

 

You brought this up in the first place Jeff and immediatly started calling reasoned arguements against your self proclaimed proof of his death "fanon", because you know better apparently than the rest of us. Yet you don't work for LFL and I don't see how you can come to that definitive conclusion based on the panels in the comic.

Look at the comic, what actually appears on the page - its not enough to declare anything. Any number of different senarios could have taken place. He could have died, he could have turned to the dark side, Niin could be affecting Draco's Force signiature somehow making Marasiah and company believe he was dead. The only character that could offer a believable opinion on the subject is Niin himself and he did not, not only that he was trying to turn Draco. He never even suggests that he is going to kill Draco.

Havok does state that he's going to prove to Draco that he belongs on Korriban instead of Bastion but at no time says "I'ma gunna kill you"

I get what you are saying about how the comics medium works, but that in itself is an arguement against making definitve claims. When something is intentionally presented as being ambiguous its OK to admit that we simply don't know what exactly happened as opposed to trying to write it ourselves.

Note that at this point the discussion has taken a turn that has nothing to do with collecting data and hard facts off site and everything to do with one fan declaring that his opinion is canon while telling others that theirs are fanon.

As for being "too kwel" for Wookieepedia, that is not the case. I've found it a useful resource for researching what book or comic I should seek out for various projects. Thats its real strength in my opinion. Not the actual text written there, which too often proves confusing and innaccurate.

And this is not specifically a shot at you Jeff, its an opinion about how I've found that system works over the years. I'm glad that your trying to make it as accurate as possible even if we disagree on this Draco issue, but thats aside to my real issues with that site.

 

Ah, but that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm not attempting to represent LFL --- I'm attempting to represent the article. And as the author who brought it to featured status, that's my responsibility.

Declaring your intentions to kill someone isn't required for death... first degree murder isn't the only way to do the deed.

Yes, any number of different scenarios could have taken place. I'm not, nor have I ever, argued that he's definitely dead. What I'm arguing is that even if death isn't what occurred, it's unambiguously what was presented on the page. If survival is revealed in a subsequent issue, it will be John & Jan saying "Gotcha! He's not dead after all." It will be the same as Krayt. Wookieepedia listed Krayt as dead after Issue 31, and that was the correct thing to do. But that death was even more ambiguous than Draco's. It was a shock of force lightning, but it didn't have Krayt's two best friends in the galaxy feel his death in the Force.

The body of the article represents what happened on the page, and the bts makes a note of Jan's vague statement. It couldn't possibly do anything more and still make a claim to neutrality.

Wrong again, my friend. Never have I once stated that Draco is canonically dead, nor that my opinion is canon. I'm arguing for the quality of the Wookieepedia article that is my responsibility to maintain the quality of.

I do regret the aggressiveness of my last post, and I want to apologize for it. But to be fair, you did make a few posts that absolutely reeked of anti-establishment "I hate Wookieepedia!!!"

 

Well, I'm just flat out confused by these words, but anyway.

 

I'll out-peace face you yet!

 

I read this just now and the final issue is a cliffhanger! What the crap?

Wait a minute... is there room for the Star Wars Sequel trilogy after all?

 

There are 6 more issues coming out, the LEGACY: WAR miniseries.

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