Lit LEGACY is back!

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Volderon, Dec 3, 2012.

  1. Esg Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    The Alliance is basically a rump state at this point though
  2. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Stazi at least has a military, popular support of a lot of the galaxy, and whole sectors that were secretly supporting him through the war.

    [IMG]
  3. Karohalva Jedi Grand Master

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    May 27, 2008
    star 2
    I never knew Legacy was gone.
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  4. AusStig Jedi Grand Master

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    Feb 3, 2010
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    That is a bold claim to make given that the map you are using as evidence shows that;

    1. Stazi has no actual control over any territory, but that the Felpire has a large base of operations in the 'north' of the galaxy.

    2. The galaxy never seemed in a hurry to throw off the Sith, up until the genocide of Dac. Even then all he got was some ships.

    3. There is limited textual evidence as to the size of the fleet Stazi commands. It appears to be as big as any given imperial fleet. Though others think it is bigger.

    4. we already went through this song and dance before in this thread.
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  5. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    I wasn't using the map as any evidence, just to show the sectors that were secretly supporting him through the war.

    The comic books are the evidence that: Stazi has a military (duh), and that after Dac and the other atrocities, he has a lot of the popular support of the galaxy.


    My main point is: it makes sense to have the Fel Empire and the Galactic Alliance agree to some kind of unity government after the fall of Krayt's Sith Empire. It even makes sense for the Jedi to help. But what doesn't make sense is the for the Jedi, consisting of much less than a million, with no territory, being the third member of a Triumvirate Federation. They have equal say as the other two galactic governments, but they're not even a planetary government. It doesn't make sense to give the Jedi equal say as the Fel Empire and GA in governing the galaxy.
    Last edited by Summer Dreamer, Feb 9, 2013
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  6. AusStig Jedi Grand Master

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    Feb 3, 2010
    star 3
    1. I assumed Stazi was getting support form the areas highlighted on the map.

    But about the Jedi;

    Yes I agree completely that they should not be part of the Triumvirate. "Jedi do not rule others but serve them for the good of all."

    It's part of their code, which they seem to forget when ever they want now days.
  7. Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2006
    star 4
    The Jedi would make effective galactic leaders... if they weren't themselves led by K'Kruhk. The Whiphid is a coward who relies on archaic 150-year old Jedi philosophy and appeals to what happened during the Clone Wars when making decisions. Fresh blood is desperately, desperately needed. I was really bummed when he didn't die in Legacy War.
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  8. AusStig Jedi Grand Master

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    Feb 3, 2010
    star 3
    I agree with everything except the bold. Jedi leading the galaxy would end up no different to the Sith, or maybe worse. Jedi are the wise wizards at court offering the ruler good advice, they don't rule them selves. Power corrupts and all that.
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  9. Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost

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    May 15, 2006
    star 4
    Not by themselves, but I think they'd be OK in the scheme of the Triumvirate. If K'Kruhk were dead.
  10. AusStig Jedi Grand Master

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    Feb 3, 2010
    star 3
    Jedi in power should NEVER be treated as a good thing. I like it in the Dark Age because it shows how bad things had gotten, it was because the Republic had collapsed or maybe the jedi were a bit corrupt.

    Either way it was not a good time.

    The lay person is very afraid of the jedi being in power, Pals hinged his plan on that and it worked I can see this going very badly for the jedi.

    Why not have the HUTTS part of the galatic government, they did almost as much as the jedi and they hold like a third of the galaxy.
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  11. Todd the Jedi Mod and Sitcom Dad of SWTV

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    Jedi did lead the galaxy during the New Sith Wars. Then they basically kept the Sith at bay and prevented the Republic from crumbling altogether. The galaxy is a lost better off during 138 ABY than it was then, so I'd imagine Jedi working with the GA and Felpire would work out just fine.
  12. Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost

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    May 15, 2006
    star 4
    I'm really just trying to argue that K'Kruhk is a chump.
  13. Karohalva Jedi Grand Master

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    May 27, 2008
    star 2
    Hypothetically, how would you propose this work? A state-subsidized "church" like in, say, Czarist Russia? Or make the supreme authority also primate of the Jedi Order, like the Anglicans? Or some other non-European example?
  14. Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2006
    star 4
    I really don't care. I'm just trying to hate on the cowardly Whiphid is all.
  15. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Well, we actually have seen Jedi rule that haven't gone bad. There's Tenel Ka, and Allana will likely take her mother's place too. Roan Fel was also a Jedi, and though he did turn to the dark side in the last moment of his life, he ruled for years in the light side, just pushed over the edge by his brother-in-law. Roan's father was probably an Imperial Jedi that didn't go dark. Marasiah will probably resist going dark.

    Now, whether that's good or bad is another discusson. But it can and has been done.

    I just prefer it to be Jedi separate from the order, not the entire Jedi Order itself becoming a governing force. That did happen during the New Sith Wars, but that was when the Republic had basically collapsed, it doesn't seem necessary to do it after Krayt's Empire has been defeated. Yes, the Jedi should help in the rebuilding and helping set up the new governments if asked, but not being an equal force to the Fel Empire and Galactic Alliance.


    Yeah, THAT would have been really new and interesting to see.
    Last edited by Summer Dreamer, Feb 9, 2013
  16. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    RE: Support for the GA Remnant, it actucan be roughly broken down into four stages:
    1. Initial covert support post-Caamas (ie, secret Mon Cal support, etc)
    2. Influx of warships and supplies following Genocide on Dac (ie, GA-sympathetic sectors and planets donate prior to Ralltiir mission)
    3. Increased support from galactic populace during Evacuation of Dac (ie, regular citizens from across the galaxy sending ships to aid in the evac)
    4. Post-Evacuation of Dac influx of additional ships & recruits (Noted in Legacy WAR #2)
    The GA's strength at the end of the war was in terms of influence and support from an undefined but growing number of worlds (presumably former GA worlds) and a increasingly powerful fleet. Infulence and popular support count for alot. The GA Remnant did lack any official borders or member worlds during the Second Imperial Civil War/Second Rebellion, but following the collapse of Krayt's Empire there is no doubt that many worlds would align themselves with the GA faction of the new Federation Triumvirate.

    Can I just take a second to mention how much I love the term "Second Rebellion"? Cause I do. One of those awesome little gems in the EGTW.

    --Adm. Nick
  17. Karohalva Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2008
    star 2
    Technically, Hutts are woefully misrepresented in Star Wars. They're stereotyped as a criminals, but the reality is vastly different, nigh Hutt in proportion we can say. While their commercial activities are demonstrably at odds with Galactic Republic standards of legitimacy, none of their cultural imperatives or traits are in defiance of their own civilization's laws or mores. Within Hutt parameters their activities are not criminal but rather wholly legal and the pursuit of them is frequently laudable. Dismissing this as merely characteristic of criminality's rejection of social strictures is poor reasoning because, unlike examples of organized crime in Earth's past and present, the Hutts' ways predate the introduction of Republican laws criminalizing their deeds. I posit that it is far more reasonable to see the Hutts as a parallel civilization of unadulterated and amoral capitalism existing within a racial and tribal hierarchy whose social order prioritizes dominance over other species. These species fulfill the function of indentured servitude for a system which is built upon a precept not of the individual as citizen but rather upon tribes and clans as the quantum unit of society. Insofar as the individual of subject species does exist for Hutts, it is not as a person entered into a social contract whose purpose is mutual or reciprocal. No, the individual in Hutt sociology is a unit of labor, bricks in a pyramid which exists to facilitate ascension of the Hutt species. We might not approve their civilization but we ought to appreciate it as a civilization, not dismiss it as a lawless underworld. Actually, in Hutt Space, "crime" is the lawful overworld.

    This message has been brought to you by the Association of Sentientologists for Impartial Galactic Historiography.
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  18. AusStig Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2010
    star 3
    Wait wasn't it only one Mon Cal?

    And I agree that they got more support, but I still think it mostly came from the areas highlighted on the map. which, along with a couple of Core Worlds, would make up most of the GA post the Second Imperial Civil, not 'Second Rebellion. Geeze Nick stop trying to rename the conflict in order to down play others roles. ;) Why not just call it Civil War 3: This time it's against the Sith.

    These is off topic,

    Nick what do think of the jedi being part of running the galaxy while the Hutts are excluded?
  19. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    According to Monia Gahan in Legacy #20 and the LECG, the Mon Calamari "have supported Admiral Stazi covertly these last seven years, with parts and supplies." So it is clear that the Mon Calamari people as a whole supported the GA Remnant, which isn't suprising given their long history of support to the Rebel Alliance, New Republic, and Galactic Alliance.

    The term Second Rebellion comes straight from the Essential Guide to Warfare. It was the term used by the GA Remnant and their supporters for Stazi's resistance against the Sith post-Caamas. One assumes that this term was also used among former GA worlds under Sith-Imperial occupation, such has Chandrila, Duros, or Sullust. To simply call the entire conflict the "Second Imperial Civil War" leaves out the GA Remnant's portion, which grew considerably between 137-138 ABY. That is why my preference for the overall conflict's name is "Third Galactic Civil War", as it comprises the actions of all factions.

    Well, in respect to the Hutts, they have never been super involved in mainstream galactic politics (ie, empires & republics), so from a certain point of view I understand it. However, the exact nature of the Hutts invovlement in the last stages of the conflict are not clear, but I do agree that if they were a major part of the opposition to Krayt that they deserve some say. Of course, Hutt Space has always been a separate entity from the "mainstream" galaxy, so I am not even sure if the Hutts care about the Core Worlds and the rest of the galaxy.

    As for the role of the Jedi, I personally am against them being involved in politics unless the situation is truly dire, like during the Pius Dea Crusades or the New Sith Wars. I am not sure if the post-Krayt galaxy warrants Jedi being active in the political discussion about what form of government should be formed, but to be honest that ambiguity is part of what makes the discussions to form a new government so interesting. I imagine that within the Jedi Order you have a certain degree of disagreement on how active they should be. There have always been Jedi that are pro-democratic government and involvement (Mace Windu, Corran Horn, Kenth Hamner) just as there has always been Jedi opposed to direct participation in government (Kup Durron, to a lesser extent Ben Kenobi, etc).

    --Adm. Nick
  20. Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2006
    star 4
    More revelations on the comic's conception from the Stradley interview:

    I think I mentioned earlier that retailers had been asking for more "Legacy." I think what they really wanted was a regular monthly series. I tried to convince John Ostrander and Jan Duursema to go monthly with "Dawn of the Jedi," but both felt strongly they were a team and needed to be involved in every issue. Since a month-in, month-out schedule will kill any artist, we looked at resurrecting "Legacy."

    For a number of reasons I didn't want to go back and pick up where the previous series had left off. For one thing, I felt too many direct comparisons between creative teams would dilute fan enthusiasm for the series. I also felt that by the end of his arc, Cade Skywalker had become too involved with the movers and shakers within the galaxy. I couldn't see where to take him. That's when it struck me there had been no Solos in "Legacy." What were the Solo descendents doing 140 years after "A New Hope?"

    I immediately pictured a young woman who might be a chip off the Han Solo block. I also thought about how, barring any Force powers or Jedi legacy, who your great or great-great-grandparents might have been is of virtually no consequence in most people's lives. Are you Abraham Lincoln's great-great-grandson? Good for you. That and a buck or maybe more will get you a cup of coffee.

    So Corinna and Gabe came up with Ania Solo, a feisty junk dealer whose best friends are an ice miner and an old assassin droid. She's about as far as you can get from the seats of power, and she likes that just fine. However, this being Star Wars, and her being a Solo, trouble has a way of finding her.
    Last edited by Jeff_Ferguson, Feb 11, 2013
  21. Skaddix Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2012
    star 4
    To be fair Cade started out far away from the seat of power. Although I am not sure I agree with that argument. I mean what once Luke becomes grandmaster is it impossible to write stories about him? He started pretty far from the center of power. Honestly, most fantasy stories start with the hero pretty far away from the center of power. Besides Cade is one of the easiest cases, he is not exactly a guy who follows rules or wants a desk job.

    So it will be interesting to see where Ania goes. I mean yeah she starts out in the middle of nowhere but if we have 3 different Imperial Knights dropping by and chasing after a lightsaber how far can she stay from the center of power?
    Last edited by Skaddix, Feb 11, 2013
  22. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    Cade is also Force strong, apparently so strong that he's almost as annoying as Luke himself :p

    I think this concept of a Solo who isn't Force strong is just what Dark Horse needs right now. A little bit of an escape from the main character being a Force user with a name everyone knows. I'd love to see a really intelligent heroine matching wits with Imperial Knights and am kinda interested in this whole lightsaber angle.

    The lightsaber looks to have that silvery glow of an IK saber but who could it have belonged to and what makes it special? So far the entire plot seems to be completely lacking of Jedi and I hope they keep it that way.
  23. Skaddix Jedi Grand Master

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    Feb 3, 2012
    star 4
    Yeah not force users is a nice change of pace.
  24. General Immodet Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2012
    star 4
    In my opinion, the appearance of Tholme's Neti girlfriend Jedi (Tra Saa) was more annoying than the appearance of K'Kruhk.
    K'Kruhk has gained cult status over time. I like him. Whipids can live very long.
    I always thought K'Kruhk would die at the hand of Darth Krayt, but it did not happen.
    I still think it would have been nice to see Lowbacca serve on the Council.
  25. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    I gotta agree with Randy here. One of my few genuine complaints about Legacy was that Cade's story just didn't seem to go anywhere. Sure, he somewhat embraced his destiny and quit deathsticks, but his character ended up being rather static. Hell, at the end of WAR, he is basically the same scoundrel, albeit not addicted to drugs and having worked out his family issues. I really wanted Cade to have more growth and I don't feel we got it.

    --Adm. Nick