Lit LEGACY is back!

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Volderon, Dec 3, 2012.

  1. Skaddix Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2012
    star 4
    Meh Some people dont really change.
  2. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    To what though Nick? Cade's drug-taking was symptomatic of him being broken, by the end of Legacy he isn't and has executed his responsibilities, what would be the next step for him at this point? I'd disagree he is anywhere near the same at the end of Legacy as he is at the beginning.
  3. AusStig Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2010
    star 3

    He kind of is though. Despite his claim 'I am a jedi', in the end he just runs away. He doesn't embrace his destiny he keeps running, he wants to kill Sith not help people. He is still a child, his emotional state is still tat of a kid floating in space.

    Also he had little development inside Legacy.
  4. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    I think that misunderstands the nature of the character - people do change but they don't simply change instantly and in matters of addiction, relapses are quite common. It's strange that in spite of people wanting SW to embrace more realistic and mature themes when it does so, as Legacy attempts to, it's met with resistance. People want Cade to simply sort himself and kill Krayt and that's that, but that overlooks the sheer nature of how broken Cade is at the start and remains. A large part of changing for the better is believing that you are both able and deserve to, that you are entitled to not be broken at all! But few people who are broken pull that off first time.

    As to what being a Jedi entails - is it a lifetime job? Or is it less than that? If Cade is a Jedi for the time it takes him to defeat Krayt forever without going dark in the process, is that not service enough for the galaxy? Is killing Sith not helping people? As to his destiny, it's arguable that like Luke he has executed it! Krayt is dead, the galaxy free from his malign reign and can rebuild. The Jedi? Don't need reviving. Galactic institutions? Also fairly intact. Cade simply isn't needed - nor does he wish to be.

    I get as EU fans it's against our nature to accept endings, but in this case, it works. Cade's done - I'm far more interested in seeing what Ania Solo gets up to.
    Last edited by Jedi Ben, Feb 12, 2013
  5. Skaddix Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2012
    star 4
    Nah he stills need to finish off Nihl.
  6. beccatoria Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2006
    star 4
    ...what's huger than Legacy though.
  7. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    I don't think he does. If he were the same as at the start of Legacy, then yes, he would indeed need that vengeance, as he would need it against Rav too, but a Jedi eschews vengeance and, in that respect, at the end of Legacy, Cade has become a Jedi.

    Considered in realistic, as opposed to melodramatic terms, which SW is often susceptible to, personal adversaries make little sense. It doesn't have to be Cade that deals with them, it can be someone else.
  8. Skaddix Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2012
    star 4
    Cade is a Gray Jedi.
  9. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 28, 2003
    star 6
    To be honest Ben, while he did make some progress, it wasn't to the degree that you would expect a main character to make in a typical "hero" story. Granted, Cade Skywalker was always sort of an anti-hero, but it still just felt incomplete, IMO. I am not saying he needed to become a Jedi Knight, but he needed more growth.

    Who knows, maybe one day he will. But for me, after 56 issues, his growth was simply too limited.

    But hey, I read the series for the GA Remnant/Fel Empire/Third Galactic War stuff, so Cade was just a distraction anyways. :p

    --Adm. Nick
  10. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    I think I'd dispute that Legacy was a traditional Hero story then Nick. It may have had to be marketed as that, but it also, from the start went against expectations and even subverted them! Personally, I would have preferred a more even split focus between Cade and the wider, big picture stories that dealt with Fel, Stasi and the war but it didn't happen.

    To me Legacy asks the question: If being a Jedi has become the "family business", does the latest generation always have to enter into it? And if it does, then what was the Galactic Civil War really fought for after all? There's this notion that if you're a Skywalker you'll have Force ability and due to having that, you must become a Jedi. Legacy asks the obvious counter Q: Why? And then attempts to give an answer.

    Skaddix, if you mean by that Cade still has a need for revenge, I'm not seeing it. At the end of Legacy, Cade has a serenity to his being that he lacked utterly at the start, but also likely believed he would never possess. Yet that serenity also disempowers the likes of Nihl and Rav by removing them as the foci of Cade's life.
    Gorefiend likes this.
  11. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Randy seems to be saying the opposite of what you interepreted it as.

    Cade had grown so much, and they'd rather start over at the beginning of the hero's journey again.

    I also think that Cade did get a good resolution at he end: he embraced that he was a Jedi, and he found freedom with Jariah and Deliah. I can see him being in retirement, doing small acts of kindness as a Jedi as he wanders the galaxy with his friends (just no more wars).

    He also kept growing throughout the entire comic too. After Broken, he decided to learn the ways of the Force again. Then he resisted being broken and becoming another follower of Krayt. Then he decided to be proactive about dealing with Krayt. Then he decided to be proactive, going against Vul Isen, after the Sith atrocities started. Cade also learned how to heal with the light side of the Force, found peace with his father's ghost, reconnected with Wolf and Shado, strengthened his relationships with Jariah and Deliah, and even forgave and healed his mother.

    There really wasn't anywhere for him to go at the end. (Just a few small things, like with his uncle's family, with Azlyn, and with Gunner). There weren't any more ways he could really be challenged and grow as a character. Kind of like where Luke was at the end of ROTJ, except the Jedi Order and galactic government didn't need to be created from scratch again. And we know how difficult it's been for most authors to write Luke post-ROTJ.


    It looks like Ania Solo is a similar character to Cade, starting in a similar place... except she's never had Force-training before, so she'll start as a complete novice, not a prodigy like Cade.


    I know the Hutts have never been involved in mainstream galactic politics before... but they started to, at the end of volume 1 of Legacy. It would have been really interesting and never-before-seen story potential to finally see them trying to integrate with and govern the rest of the galaxy.
    Last edited by Summer Dreamer, Feb 12, 2013
  12. DarthMane2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 4
    Come on, your telling me that they couldn't give us another 50 issues of Cade shedding tears about something or another? Bull crap I say. They gave us 50, why not 100?
    Last edited by DarthMane2, Feb 12, 2013
  13. RC-1991 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2009
    star 4
    I think a subtext to Cade's arc is that he deduces that, while it's his job to kill Krayt, it isn't his job to be a figurehead of sorts.
    Jedi Ben likes this.
  14. Skaddix Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2012
    star 4
    I would have to agree these are suppose people good at creative writing.
  15. AusStig Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2010
    star 3
    I feel the main reason Cade came off as 'static' or boring, was because he lacked a good foil. Luke had Han and they played off each other well, Luke wanting to help others, Han in it for the money. They had disagreements and these helped the characters grow. Cade lacked a good foil. Sia was one in Broken, and Wolf was one at the end. But for much of the Series, I found it difficult to look at one person and say "This is Cade's foil". He also didn't really grow, he was uninterested in being a jedi at the start, and took every chance he had to run away from his problems. This COULD have worked out if Cade was more funny, a bit like Zann, getting dragged into big events despite trying to not care. But I stopped caring about him very quickly, 'if he doesn't care why should I?'. That's the problem with a main character like Cade, unless they are; fun to watch, compelling or sympathetic, they get really boring, really fast. I found Cade was at his best in terms of character in the 'Claws of the Dragon' arc. After that he kind just wandered around.
    Ulicus, AdmiralNick22 and Esg like this.
  16. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Yet if Cade really didn't care he'd have disappeared a long time ago, thrown away the Skywalker name and just decided to vanish. It's that gulf between what Cade says and what he does I find interesting.

    I think in character terms Legacy was inferior to KOTOR, which was a far stronger ensemble piece. What Legacy had was an overwhelming level of ambition, big ideas and a massive cast. It was arguably utterly unsuited to being told in monthly 22-page instalments but that's what it had to do.

    As to the next 50 issues of Legacy vol 1, it could have happened but not without some major changes and developments - most series can have 1 big plot for 50-60 issues but no more than that really.
  17. Skaddix Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2012
    star 4
    Not really I have read mangas that do it for that long. I am talking monthlies to so roughly equivalent. Fullmetal Alchemist same big plot for 108 issues.
  18. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Not really sure we're comparing like-for-like though are we Skaddix? I'm thinking primarily in terms of US monthly comics. I think it can be said manga operates a little differently.
  19. Skaddix Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2012
    star 4
    Hey it was a monthly Manga that averaged about 20 pages so roughly equivalent. Although I suppose the difference at least in that type of manga boils down to the fights.
  20. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Which tend to be more substantive?
  21. Skaddix Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2012
    star 4
    Yeah and Better.

    I mean come on fights just don't feel awesome in comics. Some force push, some force lightning and some saber swinging.
  22. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Good fight choreography in comics is something of a rare art - Infinite Kung Fu is great fun, but I never felt the flow of the fights in it for instance.
  23. DarthMane2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 4
    Well to me the characters around Cade were at the most interesting. I didn't care much for his companions(I only made it to issue 9 so names escape me), but I liked the Storm trooper characters, the Emperor, Cade's Mom, and the Galactic Alliance characters. The Imperial knights didn't have much in the way of character, but were a cool concept. The Jedi were bricks and The Sith were a Big Huge Bore. All pretty much the same in terms of character, and all trying to look Bad Ass and cool. Still, it's worse because the main hero is probably the least interesting of them all.

    It's a flaw with Dark storytelling IMO. In these Dark stories the characters always tend to blend together because so many are AWESOME, COOL, and EMO etc. There are very few fun characters. I didn't find KOTOR to be high art, but the characters were far more interesting.

    I will give Legacy credit for the big ideas and ambition, but it would be nice to have characters to connect to. One's who aren't all stiff, black wearing, crying all the time, etc.
  24. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Legacy can't beat KOTOR for characters but I do love Stasi! Especially his put-downs to Cade.
  25. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 28, 2003
    star 6
    Well AusStig, we might disagree on Stazi and the GA Remnant, but it appears you and I have found a topic we both agree on. :p

    --Adm. Nick