Legalisation of marijuana in Canada

Discussion in 'Canada General' started by KitFist0, Sep 5, 2002.

?

Legalisation of marijuana in Canada

Poll closed Mar 24, 2012.
Yes 17 vote(s) 60.7%
No 11 vote(s) 39.3%
Not sure 0 vote(s) 0.0%
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  1. Lady_Lucas Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2002
    star 4
    Good point Izard! :)

    Wow mr. Malkie I better pick up my pieces since you !?tore?! me apart! [face_laugh] I think not.
    You changed your mind pretty quickly on the subject...very interesting. Pot still should be illegal and it is! :)
  2. Admiral_Thrawn60 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 6
    LL, you are only seeing what you want to see. Malkie believes that there is no reason why it should not be legalized. He does not agree with you. As far as I know, the only one who does is YJN.

    Pot should not still be illegal and it soon will not be in Canada. America will follow. Mark my words.

    I respect your opinion, but I want you to understand that Canadians live in a very different society than you do. We are a liberal society. Nothing you can say can change that. What you're doing can be compared to Christian missionary work in Islamic countries, or attempting to spread McCarthyism in China. I'm not trying to be rude. I'm just trying to explain to you what's going on here.

    ____" AT60 "____ predicts legalization in Canada within 2 years and within 10 in the USA.
  3. KitFist0 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2001
    star 4
    Two years ! You're an optimiste !
  4. Admiral_Thrawn60 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 6
    Optimist. En anglais, sil-vous-plait. :p

    Due mostly to the Senate report. We'll see how it's handled by the government.

    It also depends on who replaces Chretien.

    ____" AT60 "____ would bet his first born that it will be legalized at least by 2010.
  5. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    Admiral_Thrawn60 thank you again for trying to explain things to Lady_Lucas.

    You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink.

    Lady_Lucas you really are seeing things that are not there. I said, if anything, I'm more towards legalisation after the reading I've recently done. I certainly didn't say I'd changed my mind. Anyways, it is certainly justifiable to changes ones opinion when given more information. You are almost starting to sound childish.

    In an earlier post I asked you to post some evidence which directly implicates pot (and pot alone) as a contributer to drug related crime. You have yet to provide this information.

    All you are doing now is dewelling on minor points about my position on legalisation.
    As Admiral_Thrawn60 said I can find no reason why pot should not be legalised. You have yet to provide us with a single valid reason.

    M
  6. Lady_Lucas Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2002
    star 4
    Actually Admiral if you could read back a few posts in the beggining Malkie said he did NOT believe in legalization. Straight from the horses mouth!! Secondly check your votes there is almost a 50% split on the poll. So there are quite a few people that agree. So you are wrong again!

    Malkie "tearing" me down is more childish than I have ever been to you. In fact check the boards I have actually complimented you in the past.So try to read more thouroughly. I really think you've made some great points on the medicinal issue!

    Thirdly, talking about(for Admiral) Islam and whatever else you were talking about is off topic!

    I'll bet you $5.00 Canada WON'T legalize in 2 years as fully to the extent of the Netherlands. I'll see you in 2 years and we'll see who's right! (me of course) :)
    Hey you could just give me $5.00 right now!! ;)

    Yours lovingly-LL :D

  7. DARTH2-D2 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2002
    star 4
    First off LL, AT did not go off topic, he was using a metaphore for the type of bury your head in the sand and teach everyone to do so tactics that some people use when talking about pot.

    Second LL has a valid point when she says pot leads to bigger things, but (there is always a but) legalization of pot takes it out of the whole gateway loop, why you say, wont it be easier to get you say, well yes and no. You have to understand the whole drug pusher / junkie mentality. The drug pusher sees profit before anything. finds an innocent kid and gives him a joint, then a few more, then says "hey want something better" and bang a crackhead or a coconut is born. but if pot is legal, and kids have an easier access to it, like ciggerettes without the addiction, they try it, get over it or just smoke it, but the pusher has lost his lead in here. Why buy something at inflated costs that you can get cheaper somewhere else and pushers could not sell pot so cheaply that their return investment is worth while. Pot legal = cost of selling, growing, so on = prices go down. The whole racket goes down the tubes. No one who tries pot on his / her own goes out and seeks a bigger drug without some kind of push from a dealer. I know this from four years of working in the downtown south vancouver in a community centre in various roles. Now Im not for kids smoking dope, but I would rather see it out of the drug dealers hands if they should try it or not and get hooked on bigger things. The whole scenario I just spoke of can be put beside for comparison the whole alcohol ban back way back when... ALcohol was toted as leading to bigger things then too, and drugs was one of them, The Alcohol ban went bye-bye, it was costing to much, and creating a whole business for crime, the exact opposite of what it was suppose to do. that is what Pot being illegal is doing now. Costing money, Creating crime, LL you may be against Pot, I can respect that, you may not want it around kids, I dont either, although It already is around kids but the truth of the matter is and my whole point is, the current system is not working at all and it is time for change. Pot being legal is the start but not the end, with good in school teaching, home taught ethics, government crack down on harder drugs, Television and media ads and strict age laws in place things will get better.
  8. Lady_Lucas Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2002
    star 4
    Good point! THe thing is though as I mentioned in a previous post when pot was legalized in the Netherlands pot use doubled by children. Sure pot is still illegal for kids in the Netherlands but the fact the government says "its ok to do drugs" sent a message to the kids. Legalization really creates more problems and harms children.

    Here's a real life story how pot destroys people.

    Mica from TN said:
    I used to think that marijuana was "no big deal", until I married a pot head less than 2 years ago. It never occured to me that this drug would affect my life in such a negative way. My new husband has no motivation, no desire to do ANYTHING. If we ever go out to dinner...he is sometimes so stoned that he falls asleep at the table. He is paranoid. He has trouble remembering details or sometimes even entire events. We had discussed having a family but I don't want to bring a child into the world who will grow up saying, "Yeah my dad is a pot head." Also, did any of you know that there is a direct relation to marijuana use in men and babies of those men being at High risk for SUDDEN INFANT DEATH SYNDROME? (ARCHIVES OF PEDIATRICS AND ADOLESCENT MEDICINE, 2001, Jul. ALso! My husband was also growing it in the backyard, unbeknownst to me. The utility meter reader informed me that if I did not get rid of it he would tell the police and we would BOTH go to jail. I'm in medical school for God's sake! I am not going to ruin my reputation for THIS. Anyway, I panicked, poured rubbing alcohol in the plants and when my husband found out....he kicked me out of the house. That was 3 months ago We are now getting divorced. He has chosen marijuana over me. As far as legalizing the drug, are you crazy? I understand the need for cancer patients who rely on the effects of marijuana to ease pain but how many of you actually HAVE CANCER. At least those who need it for medicinal purposes could carry an ID card...They do it in Canada! Has it ever occured to you that the people who desperately need it cannot get it because of irresponsibility of those who abuse it? Marijuana is a DANGEROUS DRUG! It impairs motor and cognitive functions. Do you want to be slow and stupid? That's not much of a goal for life. Mica
  9. DARTH2-D2 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2002
    star 4
    Well LL that was some story, and I dont doubt that it was true. The thing is the woman in the story knew the man smoked pot when she married him. she may have not known there was pot growing in the yeard, and she should have known, no argument there. Throwing her out for killing plants is a bit extreme but I have heard of guys who kicked out a girl for throwing out clothes, collections of things, but these were not husband and wife situations except one guy who blew when the wife through out boxes of valuble collectible antiques without asking him what was in the boxes that were sealed and said dont touch, fragile on it. those at least I can condone but not this story. The man here seems to be one of those people who pot has become an addiction, now before you say Im changing my mind on the addiction thing, Im not. Anything can be an addiction. chocolate, coffee (im addicted to diet cola, I had a craving attack last night big time, withdrawls and everything) Sex, spending money (not just gambleing) TV, internet, games, whatever... There was a period of time where I smoked every day a joint or two or three, I became like the person in your story. lazy, tired, I forgot things. but then I quit just like that. for six months, not even a wanting, not a care. My memory came back and I am aware of whole conversation that happened without me so to speak. I smoke a little here and there now, and prefer a pot buzz over a drinking buzz. no hangovers, no anything other then my arthritis gone for a time and my back is straight. I dont think I should be arrested for smoking what I do, either does the police I have talked to, either does priests and teachers, respectable every day people who enjoy pot once and awhile. we should not be punished for a crime that does not make sence. The man in your story needs help and he didnt deserve a family in the first place. Those types are rare, anyone who grows mostly is for money, not for them selves unless its a plant or two, which is just a hobby for them, and if they get caught for a plant it should be regarded as a person with a joint, yes the amount can be more here but money is not being spent on crime, like a lot of dealers use it for. These ID cards right now are not the best idea, One man I talked to, has one for AIDs. his card lets him carry pot and smoke only. He can not grow or buy legally. He routinely gets searched by the cops who are looking for plants and if he is caught buying he gets arrested. what good is that, he is a target. they should leave the poor man alone and let him die in a few years anyway. I dont debunk anything you said but education is one of the keys here. another is tougher laws and enforcment on the badder drugs. I still dont believe pot is as bad as the other drugs and should not be labeled as them. I think pot is not as bad as alcohol, people dont crash cars routinely while under the influence of pot alone. (it may happen once and awhile) Drinking and driving kills thousands every year and drinking is not ilegal. Cigerettes kill thousands and its not elegal but it should be stopped from production altogether in my opinion. Making cigerettes ilegal is not the choice here either, it will become a black market business just like pot is now and alcohol was back in the proabition days. Dont get me wrong here, I dont want everything to be legal. That wont get us anywhere. Tougher laws for the bad drugs and better education on the effects of all drugs, cigerettes, alcohol, gambeling, and addiction awareness in general, gun awareness, abuse awareness and more things that will drag us off topic. Keeping things the way they are is wrong, things need to get better and crime needs to be snubbed out. start by making crimes of pot not be crimes and work on the rest. that is my stance and it has been all along. I respect your opinion LL, and everyone elses. I'm glad Malkie could learn and grow from his research he did for this topic. LL I hope you learned something and if you take anything away with you other then what you brought in, thats good. I know I have, and I have
  10. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    Secondly check your votes there is almost a 50% split on the poll. So there are quite a few people that agree. So you are wrong again!

    its actally 60:40 "yes" to "no". Two thirds of people who voted agree with legalisation, ie the majority of people are for legalisation. Even when its right infront of you, you still refuse to see it. [face_plain]

    You have also refused to post any valid evidence that pot in involved in drug related crime. Why not ?

    M
  11. Izird Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    star 4
    I don't care whether or not pot is involved in crimes, because after all, alcohol is involved in all kinds of crimes, and it's already legal!

    Also, I do concede that pot is less harmful to the body than alcohol, but guess what? IT'S STILL NOT GOOD FOR YOU! Why the heck would we legalize and start selling yet ANOTHER thing that destroys our bodies?!? That's just stupid! If the government cares for the health and welfare of the citizens of Canada, they won't go through with it.
  12. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    my point was directed at Lady_Lucas

    ANOTHER thing that destroys our bodies?!?

    Post proof of retract please. (peer reviewed articles only)

    Pot has actually been shown to be protective against brain damage in head injury tests.

    read:-

    Cannabinoids and brain injury: therapeutic implications, Trends in Molecular Medicine, Volume 8, Issue 2, February 2002, Pages 58-61
    Mechoulam, Raphael; Panikashvili, David; Shohami, Esther

    or

    Neuroprotection by ;-tetrahydrocannabinol, the main active compound in marijuana Journal of Neuroscience, Volume 21, Issue 17, 1 September 2001, Pages 6475-6479
    Van der Stelt M.; Veldhuis W.B.; Bär P.R.; Veldink G.A.; Vliegenthart J.F.G.; Nicolay K.

    there are many, many other ones.

    M
  13. Lady_Lucas Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2002
    star 4
    Thanks Darth and Izird. You both have made great points! I am also glad you like my costume! :)

    Just to be specific Malkie....
    60:40...that's not a 2/3 ratio. 2/3=.6666666
    1/3=.3333333

    To be more accurate..only 3 out of 5 say Yes, 2 out of 5 say NO. That's pretty close!
    :)

    YEs I am also glad this disscussion is being handled well, everyone is making pretty good points!
  14. ana-PADIWAN-2-3 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2002
    look again oh viewers, I too support mary-jane in her epic fight to rid her of the shackles of the modern world and return her to all her glory
  15. Izird Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    star 4
    Malkie, the protection against brain damage thing is a positive thing, yes. However, you are a doctor, correct? A pharmacist, if I recall properly. Please tell me, if someone asked you for your professional advice on marijuana, would you advise them that it is a good thing to take on a daily basis?!? You would be the first doctor I have ever heard of recommending that.

    Also, I have already recognized that pot has some good properties, but it does a lot of harm to many areas of the body. I don't know where or how to site specific articles, but I saw a poster in a local high school that depicted what pot does to each area of the body, and it was scary!
  16. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    whatever

    I'm still waiting for your evidence on pot in drug crime. Seems you can't provide it.
  17. Izird Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    star 4
    Ok, that's LL's point to prove, not mine. But seriously, please tell me what you would say to me, a client/patient, asking if I should make a daily habit of smoking pot.
  18. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    . However, you are a doctor, correct? A pharmacist, if I recall properly.

    I'm not a Medical Doctor (MD), nor am I a pharmacist. I have a PhD in Pharmacology (which means I do put Doctor before my first name).

    Pharmacology is vastly different to pharmacy. I don't deal with people, I don't give recommendations I don't give out prescriptions, I don't actually know different name brand drugs.

    I do know exactly how active ingredients in medications work on specific areas of the body, and I know which targets to look at when designing new drugs.

    So, any opinion I give on the daily use of pot is based entirely on my knowledge of the cellular effects.

    In my opinion the benefits of daily pot usage vastly outweigh any possible long term effects. The relief given to suffers of MS, cancer-chemotherapy, or AIDS justify (to me) the use of an illegal substance. There are no decent alternatives.

    yes, ok, now I've stated my biological opinion. Myself and others are currently looking at the specific targets that the ingredients of pot (THC mostly) act on, so that we can make new drugs, based on pot that have all the beneficial effects, without any side effects.

    Here's a little tit-bit for you. Your body produces natural cannabis!!!!!. Yes, thats right ! The active ingredients of pot (we call them cannabinoids) work on specific targets, and your body produces cannabinoids that work on the same targets (called endocannabinoids). *

    Any propaganda you see in highschool, on television or the media in general should always be taken lightly. They are guilty in modifying the truth to get their point across. I only deal in scientific fact.

    Malcolm

    *Neuroscience: Endocannabinoid signaling in the brain, Science, Volume 296, Issue 5568, 26 April 2002, Pages 678-682
    Wilson R.I.; Nicoll R.A.
  19. Lady_Lucas Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2002
    star 4
    Here you go Malks. This is straight statistics. You can find them for yourself on government websites. Read carefully and you will see how Marijuana DOES affect the crime rate! Cheers! :)


    Drugs & Crime Data
    U.S. Department of Justice
    Office of Justice Programs
    Bureau of Justice Statistics
    September 1994, NCJ?149286
    Fact Sheet: Drug-Related Crime

    Drug users in the general population are more
    likely than nonusers to commit crimes
    The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services

    (HHS) National Household Survey on Drug Abuse asks
    individuals living in households about their drug and
    alcohol use and their involvement in acts that could get
    them in trouble with the police. Provisional data for 1991
    show that among adult respondents (ages 18?49), those
    who use CANNABIS(MARIJUANA) or cocaine were much more
    likely to commit crimes of all types than those who did not.

    Table 1. Criminal behavior and substance use
    among 18- to 49-year-olds, 1991 provisional data:

    The first column(with highest %) represent the combination of the person under the influence of Alcohal, Marijuana and Cocaine. 2nd column under MArijuana and Alcohal. The third column Alcohal Only.



    Any violent 26.1% 14.6% 4.8%
    crime

    Any property 24.7% 13% 3.8%
    crime

    Driving under 57.2% 30.8% 12.3%
    Influence

    Sold drugs 15.1% 2.2% .1%

    Source: Harrison & Gfroerer, 1992

    So there you have it Marijuana needs to stay ILLEGAL!
  20. Admiral_Thrawn60 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 6
    its actally 60:40 "yes" to "no". Two thirds of people who voted agree with legalisation, ie the majority of people are for legalisation. Even when its right infront of you, you still refuse to see it.

    In addition, many of the people who voted are foreigners. There has been an increase in guests from south of the border here lately, and no doubt a few of them voted, which would inflate the "no" side, and provide misleading statistics about how Canadians feel about the issue.
  21. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    your data is grossly out of date - do you have more up to date information ?

    secondly, I am still looking for you to provide me with direct evidence, of cannbis, and cannabis alone to be involved in drug related crime.

    Alcohol was mentioned in every column of your table. Alcohol is a stimulant, as I mentioned above, stimulants are frequently associated with drug related crime. I'm sure we'll all agree that drunken people can cause a huge amount of problems. Cannabis is a depressant, it does not have these associated problems.

    I appreciate your source though - it is certainly a reliable one for population information.

    Your data clearly indicates the effect of cocaine use on inducing drug related crime. In the columns, the removal of cocaine reduce the percentage of drug related crimes by about half in each case.

    I'm all for keeping cocaine illegal, but you still need to provide me with data that shows cannabis, and cannabis alone induces drug related crime. Otherwise, please refer to my above evidence (including article) where cannabis was shown not to have any significant effect on crime.

    Thanks

    Malcolm

    edit: just incase you were going to say this: its an invalid assumption to presume that subtracting the alcohol alone percentage from the alcohol and cannabis percentage will leave you with the cannabis alone percentage.

    edit2: also, note the use of the word "provisional" in your data :)

  22. Admiral_Thrawn60 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 6
    You might as well ask for the moon, malkie. LL will not come up with the information you want becuase it simply doesn't exist. Not from respected sources, anyway. Anyone who says cannabis increases crime is biased and misinformed. I know that you know this, and you're trying to make a point.

    Also, if possible, LL, try to use statistics that show increased criminal activity among cannabis users in Canada, since we are different from the United States.
  23. KitFist0 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2001
    star 4
    1.I've closed the poll for reasons that A_T60 posted
  24. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    well, the poll is closed, and the majority have voted for cannabis legalisation !

    I know the data Lady_Lucas is looking for does not exist, but I'm trying to get her to say that. Surely that fact that I posted evidence that pot legalisation had no effect on the crime rate should have been enough for her [face_plain]

    She's entitled to her opinion, but she has no evidence to support what she's saying, so her view point has no standing.

    Malcolm
  25. KitFist0 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2001
    star 4
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