Legalisation of Prostitution

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Humble extra, Jun 25, 2003.

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  1. Humble extra Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 1999
    star 5
    Prostitution is put simply the exchange of sexual favours for financial reward. However there is more to it than that in a modern society, with two key issues being:

    1. Solicitation- A. Should a prostitute be able to legally seek out custom in a public manner?
    B. Should a customer legally seek out a prostitute/or respond to solicitation?

    2. Brothel Keeping- Should it be legal for a person to maintain a prostitution business and live off the earnings of the prostitutes?


    These questions have had large publicity in my country, New Zealand over the last month or so, as our parliament has debated this issue. I believe our new law follows the NSW (australian state) law.

    A government MP, Tim Barnett (who is incidently our first openly homosexual Cabinet Minister) sponsored a Private Members Bill that sought reform of prostitution.
    A Private Members Bill is a privately sponsored bill of parliament selected by lot and not part of the government or party political programme, it is usually a matter of individual conscience, not party affiliation.
    The Bill must go through several readings, which this Bill passed, albiet narrowly. It had its final reading last night, after which, if successful, as it was it becomes Law (after the enactment date, which is next friday). The final reading of the Bill came down to a 60-59 vote (there being 120 Members of Parliament) with one abstention, so it became law by the narrowest of margins.

    The new Act legalises solicitation, as well as brothel keeping. It imposes strict licencing controls on brothels ie no serious criminal record for aspiring brothel owners or managers. The previous regime allowed customers to respond to solicitation, as well as allowing brothels to run as massage parlours, aslong as the prostitute arranged the price privately, after the massage. The massage parlour owner/manager could only recieve payment for the actual massage.

    The suuporters of the new law say that it will allow the prostitutes to exit the industry easily, since they will not be at risk of getting criminal record. Further it should be safer, as prostitutes can form worker run brothels. AS well as being able to get legally enforceable employment contracts, and will now be covered by government health and safety legislation.

    Below is a link to an opponent of law reform:

    http://www.maximinstitute.co.nz/main_pages/research_page/research.html


    Below is a link to the author of the Act

    http://www.labour.org.nz/barnett/index.html
  2. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    I think we need to agree it's not going to go away and there's a reason it's the oldest profession, so to speak. Legislating in favour of it, if done sensibly and with respect to the prostitute's needs, makes perfect sense IMO.

    E_S
  3. Saint_of_Killers Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 5
    That sounds like a very reasonable law, Humble. I hope the US adopts something similar one of these days.
  4. Humble extra Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 1999
    star 5
    well it was a close thing as you can both see.......for a while, that is, the last two or so weeks before the Bill was passed into law it looked like the reformers would just fail, as there has been a sustained campaign against reform........there have been allegations that the opposition was funded largely from fundamentalist US christian organisations....if that is true then it seems its not just islam that has religious groups sponsoring global conservative morality
  5. Ardens_Furore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 4
    They better legalize prostitution. Before I die, I'd like to have sex at least once. Anti-prostitution laws are discriminatory toward people who just can't get any.
  6. Darth Mischievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 6
    I don't see any problem with prostitution being legalized, as long as it isn't being performed in a business with any close proximity to neighborhoods.

    It sould be subject to zoning codes and regulated.

    (For the record, I don't approve morally of the practice or condone it in any way - I think of it as abuse of women).
  7. Humble extra Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 1999
    star 5
    well, thats a fair point, my views about the sex trade are that they do turn women (in my experience) into objects..........if my experience with drunken visits to strip bars is anything to go by...

    anyway, on another note, this reform targets men as well as women..........one of the key movers of ther Reform was a former male prostitute, incidently the world's first trasndender MP
  8. Bant428 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 4
    i find it sad that people think that sex w/ a prostitute could fill their emptiness -- true love can only be expressed if the people are committed and caring.

    but it's like abortion -- even tho I don't approve of it morally, it's not going to go away, so we should at least have laws to make it safer.
  9. Darth_Asabrush Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2000
    star 5
    I believe in legalising prostitution in the form of "brothel keeping".

    This would make it safer for the women who offer this service by takignthem off the streets.

    The local authority, government and police could have easier access and in some respects control over this "industry" and the it would provide another means of taxation for the government.
  10. Humble extra Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 1999
    star 5
    thats the key issue, its not going to go away if you make it illegal........it just criminalises another section of the community
  11. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    "Why is prostitution illegal? Selling is legal, ****ing is legal, so why is it illegal to sell ****ing?" -George Carlin
  12. Humble extra Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 1999
    star 5
    a wise man is our george

    I personally have a general problem with this type of legislated morality
  13. Dark_Elf_Queen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2002
    star 4
    Prostitution should be both legalized and regulated in the form of brothels. I would hope that they would take prostitution off the streets for the safety of the girls AND boys that are out there risking their lives. Also regulating prostitution would hopefully stop children being abused as I'm sure most people are perfectly aware there are people out there pimping children as young as 10.

    It would also imho cut down on rape and sex related assaults both on the prostitutes themselves and the general public.

    Like someone said above, prostitution is never going to go away and you can't just sweep it under the carpet and ignore it. It's a very real situation that needs dealing with.

    If it was structured in a reasonable way, the prostitutes could perhaps get help with their drug habits and regular medical checks.
  14. Kuna_Tiori Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2002
    star 4
    I'm glad that everyone here seems to be in consensus, even the usually-conservative DM.

    I, of course, support the legalization of the prostitution industry, as well as soliticitation and brothel-keeping. Though, the name "brothel-keeping" needs to go, IMO.
  15. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    I definitely think it needs to be legal. In fact, I don't see why the hell it's illegal.

    I could see forbidding minors to engage in prostitution, and requiring federal checks to make sure the prostitutes don't have diseases--but if they're making the choice to do this for a living, why is it up to the government to stop them?

  16. The_Italian_Stallion Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2003
    They better legalize prostitution. Before I die, I'd like to have sex at least once. Anti-prostitution laws are discriminatory toward people who just can't get any.

    [face_laugh]

    I like that reasoning, Ardens_Furore.

    In fact, I think you ought to sue the federal government. ;)
  17. FlamingSword Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2001
    star 6
    I'm kinda torn over this. (Not that I lay awake at night wondering about it or anything).

    On one hand, prostitution is wrong. Sex isn't just something to be bought or sold; it's something that two people share out of love for mutual pleasure. I can't imagine anyone wanting to do this out of the joy of being a prostitute. Why would any women do this except out of a desperate need to earn money. But maybe this idea comes from society and some women are quite happy doing it.

    On the other hand, prostitution is never going to go completely away. Any prostitutes you find today are possibly abused, abusing drugs, and who knows what else. If prostitution were legalized with certain requirements, these women might get better medical care and so forth.


    anakin_girl: but if they're making the choice to do this for a living, why is it up to the government to stop them?

    It all depends on the reason they choose to do this for a living. If you have no other way out, wouldn't you? But I guess government regulation could help there by setting some basic guidelines about prostitutes and prostitution.
  18. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    FlamingSword: There are some women who view sex as simply a physical thing and not an expression of love--which was my point. It is not up to the government to tell women how to view sex.

    I feel for the women who are prostituting themselves to support a drug habit or just to survive, period--and I think making prostitution legal and providing regulations, such as testing for venereal diseases and forbidding minors from engaging in prostitution, would help this problem somewhat.

    I personally can't imagine choosing to have sex with a random man for money--but everybody is not me.
  19. womberty Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2002
    star 4
    but it's like abortion -- even tho I don't approve of it morally, it's not going to go away, so we should at least have laws to make it safer.

    Worst. Argument. Ever.


    Rape and murder aren't going away, either. Shouldn't we have laws to make them safer?
  20. FlamingSword Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2001
    star 6
    anakin_girl: There are some women who view sex as simply a physical thing and not an expression of love--which was my point. It is not up to the government to tell women how to view sex.

    True, but by legalizing it, the government is saying that it's all good and fine to view sex as merely a physical tool. But the government isn't telling every woman how to view sex. But neither is it now. A woman can still have all the physical sex she chooses if she can find willing partners. She's just not getting paid for it. Neither by legalizing or abolishing prostitution does the government say anything about how women should view sex; except for accepting payment for it.

    I do agree with your argument for legalizing it. It would hopefully help the women who are now doing it for the reasons you described.

  21. womberty Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2002
    star 4
    "Why is prostitution illegal? Selling is legal, ****ing is legal, so why is it illegal to sell ****ing?"
    -George Carlin



    Selling is legal, donated organs are legal, so why is it illegal to sell donated organs?
  22. KaineDamo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    Because donated organs are intended for patients that need them??

    Sex is for everyone, mack.
  23. skywalker325 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2002
    star 4
    It would also imho cut down on rape and sex related assaults both on the prostitutes themselves and the general public.

    Statistically, you are probably wrong. If you've read such books as the "Final Report of the Attorney General's Commission on Pornography," you would understand that, in fact, there is a very clear progression between porn-->(prostitution, though this "step" is often skipped, but I feel it fits in rather well)-->rape-->murder. This progression has been well-documented through complex studies of criminals and criminal behavior.

    It's dangerous to assume a (seemingly logical?) "fact" that prostitution would cut down on these things. Perhaps, for one night, a man (not any man, please don't take this personally--I'm referring specifically to men who would otherwise be out raping someone) might pay rather than rape. But he will run out of money sooner or later, and his drive/desire for sex will increase...I think he will end up raping in the end, anyway.

    Rape and murder aren't going away, either. Shouldn't we have laws to make them safer? haha BINGO!

    There are some women who view sex as simply a physical thing and not an expression of love--which was my point. It is not up to the government to tell women how to view sex. Maybe, but as someone said after this, why not do it for free then? If they truly view it as just a physical thing they desire, they can go to parties and have sex with anyone they want. I have worked in inner-city Los Angeles with many poor women and spoken to prostitutes--as young as 12 years old!, and none of them told me they enjoy their profession. All of them hope to earn enough money so that they can go back to school, or get a "real" job, as several put it. I think prostitutes are, in a sense, all (brothel or not) "forced" into this by economic circumstance. So instead of giving up on these women, the government ought to provide jobs for them--not welfare, which would be inevitably spent on drug addictions--but more people to work with the homeless and poor and help them get what they need, try to convince them to go to homeless shelters, and if they really didn't want to do that, help them on an individual basis. I hardly think that (legalizing) the physical and emotional pains of prostitution is the final answer--we need to keep looking.
  24. womberty Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2002
    star 4
    Because donated organs are intended for patients that need them??

    I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that an organ donor can't charge for his or her services. While some people have been able to donate certain organs (such as a kidney or part of a liver) while alive, I think it is illegal for anyone to offer their organs (or anyone else's) for sale.


    It would also imho cut down on rape and sex related assaults both on the prostitutes themselves and the general public.

    Someone who wants to rape a woman is quite unlikely to stop and think "No, wait, I'll just go pay someone to have sex with me." Rape is about power, not simply sexual gratification. And those who rape prostitutes do so because they think those women are filthy - legalizing it won't make it moral in those men's eyes.


    haha BINGO!
    I'd have to say, though, that prostitution is not quite on the same level as abortion in my view. It's a lot harder to distinguish who is the victim when it comes to prostitution.
  25. Jedi_Stratus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2002
    star 1
    this is a STAR WARS FAN BOARD!! obviously we favor it!


    ;)
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