Legalisation of Prostitution

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Humble extra, Jun 25, 2003.

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  1. son_of_the_tear Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 1999
    star 5
    Yoda, yes I'm proud. Not that she was 17 or I was 22.

    But proud of the fact that I got to go out with a tremendous girl who I still care about to this day, even if we're only friends now.

    I don't know if her parents knew if we were having sex or not nor was I going to ask them if they knew. It was our private consentual lives.

    But if you ask me, they probably did know. For one, they're not stupid. Two, she was 17 and well aware of what sex was. Three, her parents knew she wasn't a virgin. So I'm pretty sure her parents knew we were having sex or some heavy petting.


    And I'm sorry. I saw nothing wrong with the fact that I was 22 and she was 17.

    Sorry.

    First of all, that's a very north american concept. Granted, I live in the US, but where I'm from, if a 17 year old girl dates a 22 year old guy, it's not that big of a deal if the parents approve. And I had her parents consent to date her. They had no problem.

    So, what about my brother? He was 20 and she was 16. They've been married for 10 years and are extremely happy. Should he be ashamed?

    He has every right to feel proud. Because he loves her and she loves him.

    Fact is, it is relative. I go by it on a case by case basis.

    And sometimes you can't help it. Sometimes you meet someone special or fall in love with someone and you can't help that. The chemistry is there.

    I dated that 17 year old. But trust me, if she was some immature floozy, no way in hell would I have dated her.

  2. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Men AND Women would not longer feel compunction to enter relationships to satisfy their "needs" for sex.

    See my argument about buying a 747 to get a bag of peanuts.

    However, couldn't it be argued by most peoples experiences that relationships that are entered primarily for this reason don't usually end up all that well anyhow.

    Right.

    Wouldn't it be better for people to choose to commit to each other because of love, respect, and the desire to have children with someone? It would certainly change the view people take of marriage,

    Except for the desire to have children, which should be an individual choice and one only entered into if one is ready to support these children fully--yes. I married my husband out of love and respect for him and a desire for his lifelong companionship--not so I could sleep with him.

    anakin girl

    How many sexual partners did you have?


    Ummmm...none of your business!!!! :mad: I suppose this is a question you regularly ask strange women?

    I am disease free because I am educated on how to remain disease free.

    yodashizzle: I'll address your post after I cool off enough to think clearly.
  3. Red-Seven Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 1999
    star 5
    "Why is that such a "naive supposition"? Why should the government be allowed to tell me what to do? What is this, a dictatorship?"

    Clearly, there is a middle ground between where Shizzle thinks A-G's position is and where A_G thinks Shizzle's position is...

    Simply put, the Government has the right to infringe on bestowed personal liberties when they have the potential to harm others. The complications come in when defining 'potential', 'harm' and 'others'. Plus whether a liberty has been bestowed, or should be.

    I'd suppose that my answers to those definitions would differ wildly, or subtly, from others...but the bottom line is that for me, when dealing with personal liberties, the burden of proof is on the Government, to prove why action or law is needed.
  4. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    Vader666

    Condoms are primaily made of latex... they DON'T let fluids ect through...

    And they DO make female condoms....
  5. Vader666 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 5
    Well I did not mean to pry. I was only trying to find another reason why you're disease free other than condoms...
  6. Vader666 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 5
    Breezy

    They are also POROUS.
  7. yodashizzzle Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2003
    star 4
    S_O_T:

    if you're still friends with people that you've had a sexual relationship with and you both are honestly integral parts of each other's lives and actively friends, i'd say that's great, but you are probably the exception to the rule. surely you can understand my point about there might be one party who is involved in a sexual relationship who thinks it's exclusive and full of promise and gets crushed when the rather insignificant attitude towards sex by their partner is revealed? in short, most people i know now are either married or finding themselves confused by the sort of duplicitiousness of "getting some action." it's all fun and everything's cool until someone falls in love. and who hasn't fallen in love? maybe some people are successfull and married and swingers, heck, i don't know. but most people like most prostitutes aren't as cut and dried about sexual isseus as you are. emotions run their sexuality. last time i thought of all the people i went to high school with, there was one couple who got married and everyone else had lost touch especially with former lovers. actually, MOSTLY with former lovers. being able to change gears emotionally with regard to sex is not a common trait at all. people most often react poorly when you slept with them and then expect them to be cool with your new significant other. again, it's not an absolute, but as a general guideline, people are duplicitous as hell about sex. talk one thing, do another. if the opposite case were so and you were the rule rather than the exception, i'd suggest that the entire world would never abide by monogomous marriage vows and getting some x-tra mouth love would be literally no different than getting a burger with fries.
  8. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    They do the job, Vaderize. Otherwise I'd have been pregnant many times over by now, and I might be diseased, too.

    Condoms are, as Breezy said, made of latex--the same thing that doctors use in surgical gloves to keep germs off their hands. If they're as "porous" and ineffective against germs as you say they are, I'm never going to the doc again.

    yodashizzle:

    the reason why i say it's naive is because people have a tenadancy to either be afraid if sexual issues altogether and live somewhat repressed lives or they tend to buy into the college atmosphere idea of sexual liberation. which means any sex is good sex. and it's just ridiculous to me.

    To you. To me, if it's not hurting anyone, it's fine.

    it's just nonsense to embrace freedom without responsibility. the latest generation is the freest most irresponsible generation in history. we wanna party and all be rock stars. and no one wants to pay the bill when the party's over. we all think we're just exploring our sexuality. then we get our hearts broken by someone who just wanted a booty call.

    No one said anything about embracing freedom with no responsibility. We should all be responsible for protecting ourselves from pregnancy and STDs. And protecting us from broken hearts is not the government's job. Life sucks sometimes. Hearts get broken. This doesn't mean that there should be regulations on sex.

    the thing about human beings is that we REALLY like sex, but we've attempted this very immature double standard whereby we hold others responsible for emotionally hurting US (when we are cheated on, dumped for another lover, etc.) yet, we never seem to hold the same level of responsibility towards OURSELVES.

    That is an entirely different problem and should not, as I said, be regulated by the government.

    i know dozens of people who have hurt/ manipulated/ deliberately looked to "conquer", etc. people with sex, myself included. but most people do a pretty bad job of being consistant when it comes to defining sex and what responsibility it entails. or they settle down, get out of the game, marry, and after a while get bored and get a divorce because they're chasing a dream that's pretty hard to realize and most people have a lot of work to do when it comes to achieving long term relationships and cohabitation.

    Once again, another issue that the government has no place in.

    living with a person is hard.

    You don't have to tell me twice.

    heck, if i got married (to my 14 year old asian prostitute i'll be acquiring via the internet), i'd want her to live in her own house and i'd live in mine. unconventional? sure. but the maybe we'd have a chance together. look, i have a dream, allright?

    Whatever floats your boat.
  9. yodashizzzle Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2003
    star 4
    [John McEnroe]" come ON! YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!!!"[/end John McEnroe]

    look, i know you're not serious any more than i am about a 14 year old being cool. i mean, that's REALLY messed up for a 29 year old to be getting a 14 year old who seems to be wiser than her years to sleep with me for a few bucks. and my point about the age thing was that you're supposing that just becuase YOU feel that 16 might be okay for consensual sex, why not 15? why not 14? finding an appropriate age is a subjective thing even if an OBJECTIVE criteria of maturity could be agreed upon. so, in all seriousness, you're gonna have people who REALLY want 14 year old Vietnamese hookers. and then it's be 13 year olds. and pretty soon, we're so protective of our civil liberties, we haven't noticed that our society has a bunch of endemic problems that occurred because we wanted to be so damn free. we're not obliged to be good people, but i'm not obliged to tolerate a hooker on the street either. i'm just saying that if you honestly feel like your liberty to do what you want is being infringed upon because of laws against prostitution, we don't see it the same.

    why are there laws that say i cannot scream profane words at people in a pubilc place whenever i'd like? i'd really like to sometimes, but i am relatively sure i'd be told to stop and if i kept expressing my awesome free nature, i'd probably find myselkf in jail. what's the difference there? are those civil liberties being ruined? it's not hurting anyone. what if i want to show pictures of people having graphic sex on a banner i want to wave all day in front of my local library? only adults would see it. i'll stick to just the adult section entrance. and the people depicted are consenting. why can't i? it's just two people ********?


    RED-SEVEN SAID:

    but the bottom line is that for me, when dealing with personal liberties, the burden of proof is on the Government, to prove why action or law is needed.

    well, where in my scenario about being expsoed to graphic images of sex (as exposure to open prostitution would parallel in my arguement) would the burden of proof be with the government? to protect my rights to have such things out of the public view or the rights of the person wishing to express themselves (or openly solicit for sex)? see,l i dont' see it as neccesarilly being a requirement that something can "HURT" others before the government can pass legislation that prohibits things. it's not really "hurting" someone to show a banner with people having sex on it is it? but it still isn't acceptable in the large social sense nor is it it acceptable in the legal sense. so would that be cutting short civil liberty?

  10. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    why are there laws that say i cannot scream profane words at people in a pubilc place whenever i'd like? i'd really like to sometimes, but i am relatively sure i'd be told to stop and if i kept expressing my awesome free nature, i'd probably find myselkf in jail.

    I live in the Bible Belt, and even here I'm not sure you'd be arrested for doing that. You might get your ass kicked, but I don't know that you'd be arrested. If you got arrested for cussing someone in public, the cops really need to find something better to do.

    what if i want to show pictures of people having graphic sex on a banner i want to wave all day in front of my local library? only adults would see it. i'll stick to just the adult section entrance. and the people depicted are consenting. why can't i? it's just two people ********?

    *shrugs* Dunno.
  11. yodashizzzle Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2003
    star 4
    I live in the Bible Belt, and even here I'm not sure you'd be arrested for doing that. You might get your ass kicked, but I don't know that you'd be arrested. If you got arrested for cussing someone in public, the cops really need to find something better to do.


    i also live in the south. so i can agree that the ass-kicking might be forthcoming. but i can guarantee that you'd be arrested on the charge of disturbing the peace. and i don't really have a problem with someone arresting a person who is doing nothing but disturbing the peace. not holding a political rally, mind you, not expressing themselves for anything other than being loud and obnoxious. just yelling like a moron in order to deliberately upset passers by. part of life is about freedom, yes, but there's another part that involves (at least for me) not having to put up with other's intolerable bull****. if someone starts yelling at me in public and does so all day screaming profanity and generally being a nuisnace, the cops had better protect everyone else's right to peace. trust me, with some of the experiences i've had, i know the point of having to enforce "disturbing the peace" laws. people acn hold whatever opinion they like and express it freely. but they're not free to incite riots, deliberatley cause panic with false alarms, yell obscenities at the top of their lungs during city council meetings, or walk up to me and say " sucky sucky...five dollah, me love you long time" unless they're quoting from Southpark of Full Metal Jacket or cracking a joke.
  12. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    deliberatley cause panic with false alarms,

    Causes harm.

    yell obscenities at the top of their lungs during city council meetings,

    Hmmmm...reminds me of some local school board meetings.

    or walk up to me and say " sucky sucky...five dollah, me love you long time"

    Not sure it's forbidden--but you have the right to say no.

    Now, on the rest of your post, if someone is following you around and screaming obscenities, that would be considered harassment--which falls under the category of harmful to others and therefore should be regulated.

    Legalized prostitution, in which the seller is willing and the buyer is willing, is not harassment.
  13. Vader666 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 5
    It's not a question of will or not. It's a question of honor. People who approach whores or vice versa and accept the proposal are destroying their prestige. Can't this person find another way to have sex?

    I don't think it's that hard to hook up with a someone and have sex without paying..

    One who has sex for money is one who is selling his/her body. Would you for example sell your eye or any other organ for money? This is more or less analogous to buying sex..

    anakin girl

    You boast a lot about the fact that you've had sex and still did not contract a disease. It's not an inevitability. You may have been lucky or careful while choosing your sex partners. Ok I don't think you mind answering this question: How long have you been married?
  14. yodashizzzle Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2003
    star 4
    Not sure it's forbidden--but you have the right to say no.

    yes, it's forbidden. even the prostitution that's legal in the state of Nevada prohits the sort of open solicitation that is the common method used by street walkers. if someone says " do you want a BJ for $5" to a cop, they're gonna be arrested. as just legal matters go, saying that toan undercover cop in a sting operation will come with some consequence.

    Now, on the rest of your post, if someone is following you around and screaming obscenities, that would be considered harassment--which falls under the category of harmful to others and therefore should be regulated.

    why do you call it harrasment and not free speech? why is it harmful just cos i don't wanna hear it? maybe i'd find it really funny at first. if i thought it was funny on a subjective level one day but the next was really tired of it and felt harrassed, why is it qualitatively any more or less acceptable?

    Legalized prostitution, in which the seller is willing and the buyer is willing, is not harassment.

    it can become obnoxious in certain areas where it's so rampant that it borders on harassment. would you be okay with legalized prostitution if you had a female relative who thought it was a valid lifestyle? and if so, would you ever ask them to reconsider that 'career' move after they'd had sex with a few thousand partners? do you really expect me to believe that that person is going to be a well adjusted person? then why should i fail to not discourage it and embrace legalization? if i had a relative who had been a prostitute, would i really be proud of them? honestly? no. it'd be unacceptable and something i'd hope would have been prevented. even if they REALLY love sex, it's still pretty ridiculous to take the hypothetical where a family member is injected (uh-oh, Freudian slip) and with a straight face say, "hey everyone! this is my grandma, the whore! who's got 50$? i'm feeling naughty !!!"
  15. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Nine years, Vader.

    However, I am not answering any questions about prior activities.

    It's not a question of will or not. It's a question of honor. People who approach whores or vice versa and accept the proposal are destroying their prestige. Can't this person find another way to have sex?

    I can, maybe you can. But maybe someone else can't. And why should the government legislate honor and prestige?
  16. Saint_of_Killers Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 5
    Hey Vader, did you learn about this supposed ineffectivness of condoms at the same school where you learned homosexuality was a psychological disorder? [face_laugh]


    "People who approach whores or vice versa and accept the proposal are destroying their prestige. "

    Prestige? Maintaining the 'pretige' of citizens is not the job of the government. And prestige only matters if you base your own self worth on the others' perceptions of you.

    "Can't this person find another way to have sex?"

    You mean like picking a girl up at a bar, buying her some drinks, buying her dinner. That's still prostitution, it's just payed for in beer and food rather than cash. Or a thousand dollar diamond engagement ring. At least whores are honest about it.
  17. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Saint_of_Killers, as always, I applaud you. ;)
  18. yodashizzzle Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2003
    star 4
    At least whores are honest about it.

    even if i'm not on the same page as you S_O_K, i can at least recognize a level of truth here. that's a good point. unoffical prostitution is certainly evident in society. what you describe is definitely a part of the sexual picture. to be perfectly honest, i sometimes view every relationship as nothing more than an exchange of goods and services between people. a kind of "uber-whore" view of life. everything can be had for a price. if not in money, in love or dedication, but it's still a trade. giving and taking, i'll scratch your back if you'll scratch mine. that's the way the world works. basically it a matter of people making choices:

    i want......THIS.........for which i'll give you..........this.


    i'm a whore. no denying it.
  19. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    And like Saint_of_Killers, I'd rather have it out in the open than have people pretending and faking.

    would you be okay with legalized prostitution if you had a female relative who thought it was a valid lifestyle?

    Since I think it's a valid lifestyle myself, why would it bother me if a female relative of mine thought it was valid?

    and if so, would you ever ask them to reconsider that 'career' move after they'd had sex with a few thousand partners?

    I don't make the number of partners my family members have had any of my business.

    do you really expect me to believe that that person is going to be a well adjusted person?

    Some people aren't defined by who they have sex with or how many.
  20. Vader666 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 5
    Please stop calling me Vaderize. I'd appreciate if you call me by my name. Thanks :)

    I can, maybe you can. But maybe someone else can't. And why should the government legislate honor and prestige?

    Oh so you are saying that a person who cannot have a mate should go to a prostitute and have sex. That's the alternative? I don't think God brought anyone redundant into this world. It is my belief that any person can have a partner no matter how bad they look. There is always someone of the opposite sex with same caliber. An ugly guy can always go for an ugly girl.

    Married for nine years. Ok now allow me to make this deduction. Assuming that you did not cheat on your husband (or vice versa), you have remained with one sex partner for nine years. I'd say the possibility of contracting a STD is 0%. Agreed?

    You may have had premarital sex. Let's take that into consideration. I'd say that was in the region of 4 years (i.e. 18-22) in your life. There is a slim chance that you could have contracted a disease. I assume that you used condoms etc.. In that short period I don't think you can come to the conclusion that condoms are safe. How do you know whether your sex partner actually had some sort of a disease?

    Saint of killer

    No that did not come from my medical school. This is a culimination of common sense and awareness of recent studies made on the effectiveness of condoms. And please don't bring the subject of homosexuality back. It's amazing how many people still remember that incident..

    You mean like picking a girl up at a bar, buying her some drinks, buying her dinner. That's still prostitution, it's just payed for in beer and food rather than cash. Or a thousand dollar diamond engagement ring. At least whores are honest about it.

    No it's not the same thing. Who is to say the girl will just kneel down and bend for him? She may actually have a brain and decide not to have sex with some stranger.
  21. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    You may have had premarital sex. Let's take that into consideration. I'd say that was in the region of 4 years (i.e. 18-22) in your life.

    Not saying when, not saying for how long, not saying how many.

    I assume that you used condoms etc.. In that short period I don't think you can come to the conclusion that condoms are safe.

    Doesn't seem like a "short period" to me.

    How do you know whether your sex partner actually had some sort of a disease?

    Exactly. Most people don't have VD.

    And why are your stats better than the ones I've found and the ones I've known from experience?

    Fixed your name in my last post, BTW. Vaderize is in the other thread I've been posting in.
  22. Saint_of_Killers Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 5
    Vader, I'd be interested in seeing these studies you're talking about. Do you any links?
  23. Vader666 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 5
    Exactly. Most people don't have VD.

    That is because you did not sleep with a whore.

    Saint

    I did not get my info from the net. It came from Medical Journals..
  24. Saint_of_Killers Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 5
    What medical journals? Which issues?
  25. Vader666 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 5
    Can't remember which issues. I'm not subscribed to any journal. I sometimes go to the college library and read a journal from there. They bring the latest issues..
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