Lit [Legends] Making sense of the Hand of Thrawn books

KJA's also confirmed that that was Hambly's mandate (to create a lasting love interest for Luke), but after Zahn was signed on for HOT and convinced them that Luke should be with Mara, the planning team did a 180 and KJA was suddenly tasked with getting rid of Callista in Darksaber.

Well... no. At the end of Champions of the Force, Iron Lord's right in that there's a scene where Mara softens toward Lando and says "Ya know what maybe I'll give you a chance." Then Hambly depicts them as being in a relationship one year later. That's not Mara 'all of a sudden' sleeping with Lando; it's her and him presumably having been in a relationship for a year, and sex is part of that relationship because they're adults. It's not a throwaway scene where Hambly has Mara completely reverse herself, but rather an extension of a scene Anderson wrote at the end of COTF. And all this is while Hambly's been told that Callista will be Luke's lasting love, so it's not a spit in the face of an eventual Mara/Luke pairing, either. That's why it was never denounced as petty authorial interference --- because it wasn't that at all.

 

Whoever told Hambly that Callista would be a lasting love interest, hadn't read The Crystal Star, which is set after Children of the Jedi is supposed to be set, and in which a point is made of Luke's singleness:


“Just like old times, hey, kid?” Han Solo said to Luke Skywalker.
Sitting in the copilot’s seat of the Millennium Falcon, Luke grinned.
“Just like old times except the Empire isn’t trying to shoot us out of the sky—”
“You got that right.”
“And Jabba the Hutt isn’t after your hide for dumping that spice load—”
“Yeah.”
“And nobody is trying to collect old gambling debts from you.”
“Also true,” Han said, thinking, But I might get around to running up some new gambling debts. After all, what’s a vacation for?"
“Finally, you can’t ogle every beautiful woman who comes by.”
“Sure I can,” Han said, then hurried to defend himself as Luke chuckled. “Nothing wrong with looking. Leia and I know where we stand with each other, we trust each other, she’s not jealous.”
Luke burst into outright laughter.
“And you wouldn’t mind,” he said, “if she flirted with the Kirlian ambassador. Good-looking guy, that Kirlian ambassador.”
“Nothing wrong with looking,” Han said stubbornly. “Or a little innocent flirtation. But the Kirlian ambassador better watch his hands. All four of them. Hey, kid, listen, flirting is one of the best inventions of civilization.” Han grinned.
Luke hated it when Han called him 'kid.' That was why he did it. He stared out into hyperspace.
"You ought to do more flirting yourself," Han said.
"If I might be of service, Master Luke," See-Threepio said, leaning forward from the passenger seat. "I have an extensive library of love poetry at your disposal, in several languages suitable for the human tongue, as well as etiquette, medical information, and—"
"I don't have time for flirtations," Luke said, "or love poetry. Not right now..."
Threepio sat back in the passenger seat. At the corner of Han's vision, the droid looked like a shadow. To disguise himself, See-Threepio had covered his glossy gold finish with a coat of purple lacquer. Han had not yet gotten used to the change.
"Don't be so damned dedicated," Han said to Luke. "Don't Jedi Knights get to have any fun? Little Jedi Knights have to come from somewhere. I'll bet old Obi-Wan—"
"I don't know what Ben would have done!" Luke spoke in a tone of distress, not anger. The fundamental loneliness of the young Jedi struck Han deeply.
"I don't know what other Jedi Knights did," Luke said softly. "I didn't know Ben long enough, and the Empire destroyed so many records, and ... I just don't know."
Han wished Luke could find someone to share his life and his work. Han's marriage to Leia grew and strengthened with each year, with each day.
As his own years of happiness continued, Han was increasingly troubled by his brother-in-law's solitude.


Though I suppose Hambly and Vonda McIntyre could have both been given their "book contracts" at the same time - mid-1993 - and not have known what one another was going to write.

By early 1994, I would guess that Zahn had managed to convince the Story Group of that era, that Luke was going to marry Mara - with Hambly only being tipped off about it in 1995 towards the end of writing.

 

Bantam continuity

 

As Yoda might say: "Always in motion is continuity."

 

Hambly and McIntyre were both signed on for a hardcover novel around the same time, according to the Readers Companion's entry on Hand of Thrawn --- they were both part of the original twelve-additional-novel deal that Bantam worked out after the success of Zahn's trilogy. So it seems more probable that Hambly was told to "create the great love of Luke Skywalker’s life" (quote from KJA in this interview) but that McIntyre wasn't told about it, or possibly The Crystal Star was completed before the details of Children were worked out. Probably a good thing that they didn't tell McIntyre to throw in a "'The great love of my life is waiting for me back on Coruscant,' Luke grinned" line or something, though.

Hambly herself said "I was offered a contract for the book that became CHILDREN OF THE JEDI, and it was the editor who said, "I'd like you to do the story of the great love of Luke's life (link here)." KJA's full quote from that above-linked interview is:

haha I never thought of that, but I'm cynical enough to give it some credence. Especially if Zahn thought that he would be helping lead the planned Dark Horse Invasion storyline. And, I mean, look at Car'das's face. He's Lucas.

 

Plus his first name is Jorj.

 

Interesting - did Zahn actually think he was going to do the proto-NJO invasion storyline early on? I'd never heard that before.

 

This conversation about Car'das came up before, and IIRC there wasn't really any substance to it - he's named after some other tuckerized real-world George, not Lucas. The Japanese cover artists were just feeling playful or running with fan speculation.

 

As much as I didn't like Callista or Akanah, they didn't deserve the fates they got in FOTJ. As much as I didn't like Pellaeon, he didn't deserve his fate either.

Fey'lya, a bit on the fence, but Sal-Solo, should've happened in NJO and been much, much, MUCH more painful.

Ta'a Chume should've bought the farm instead of Teneniel Djo.

 

This line of conversation reminds me... when are the Japanese LotF covers coming?

 

Never give up hope! Betrayal will come any day now!

Randy ended up revealing quite a bit about Dark Horse's planned Invasion storyline, but I think the idea that Zahn and Stackpole would be major players in it was never actually confirmed by anyone. Just speculation based on Zahn introducing the Unknown Regions Threats & the Empire of the Hand in Vision and Stackpole feeling like he needed to address them in Dark Tide.

 

Zahn did get the opportunity to go back to the Unknown Regions in his Survivors Quest/Outbound Flight Duology. OF is actually my fave Zahn book in Jmo and Thrawn was written perfectly in that in book in Jmo.

Cardas would be brought back for this and Choices and retconned into knowing Thrawn. Do you think that worked ?

Hand of Thrawn was also interesting as it Zahn’s take on the Dark Side and his attempt to both sanitise Mara’s past (she was never on the Darkside and she only went after bad people) while at the same time supposedly being super important to Palpatine and one of his 3 Top people which included Vader and Thrawn (Who at the same time was secretly manipulating Palpatine) I’m not sure if both goals could be achievable at the same time and he never succeeded in doing so.

 

We only had Parck's word for it - and all he had was repetition of "whispers" among "those who know".

 

It would be really interesting to know what Zahn would have made out of the threats in the Unknown Regions on his own. Has anyone already asked him about this on Twitter or on a convention?

 

I don't have anything to add really, but this thread is really taking me back to how absolutely frustrating I found these books as a teenager. It was the first time I remember being aware that an author was making decisions rather than just accepting it as "this is what happened in the Star Wars".

 

Is this documented somewhere?

 

Good thread!

I feel like it does a good job of wrapping up a lot of loose ends from the other Bantam books. I actually prefer it over The Thrawn Trilogy!

My big 'returning to the status quo' part of it was Luke is the only Jedi who does anything (outside of Mara).

I don't have a problem with the Solo kids not being in it - they're kids. They really shouldn't be in war every story.
I don't have a problem with Mara being Karrde's second-in-command again. She's free to do as she wishes (and as I recall, doesn't she spend almost all of the duology with Luke anyways)

Wedge - he's all over the map in Bantam. In the JAT isn't he a construction worker? WTF

Honestly I enjoy that it isn't perfect clarity and allows the fans to discuss. Believe it or not, this isn't a SW Legends / Bantam thing either and occurs fairly regularly in other fandoms as things change as the author / authors writes the story. You know that thing that was super hyped in Book 5 that we thought would get resolved before the series end??? - Whatever happened to that? Why didnt the author return to it? And then sometimes you'll be lucky enough to get an author/authors interview and they're like 'well, that idea ended up not really working out.'
If I wanted everything to fit nicely and be perfectly clear, I'd go read a picture book.
But yes - sometimes things just don't make much sense and it'd be nice if they fit together better! (like Wedge being a construction worker one book and a general the next. WTF)

 

Man I loved those two books. Very good read, they weren't like the first three Thrawn books but really carved out how smart he really wise. I miss them.

 

Granted it's been a long time since I read it, but I'm pretty sure he was volunteering with the relief and reconstruction efforts post-Dark Empire. That's quite a bit different than the implication here that he randomly changed careers and became a construction worker.

 

He was still a general while doing his reconstruction work. Generals do lots of things, especially in Star Wars where everyone's a general.

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If so, I wonder if there's a possibility now that some of those ideas will be resurrected in canon (specifically in the form of the Unknown Regions threats that were hinted at in Thrawn). Marvel's version of "The Hatred Vector," anyone?

 

He talked about them a bit on the DH forums over the years, but those seem to have been completely blasted out of existence.

 

He also talked a little bit about the project in an interview somewhere online before Vector launched, and more extensively somewhere when Invasion launched... on the Dark Horse forums? In the letters section of the first issue? I can't remember.

Fake Edit: Here, I think, but the URL is long dead and even the wayback machine at archive.org doesn't have it captured.

From what I remember, he talked about Dark Horse having had plans to do it. And only Dark Horse. It was a Dark Horse thing. The rumors about Zahn, Stackpole, Luceno, and a secret cabal at Bantam planning an invasion before being co-opted by Del Rey are, from what I can tell, made-up bull**** originating from places like this 2003 Lit thread and then propagated over the next few years by certain posters and by the Wookieepedia page on "Bantam/Dark Horse Invasion storyline," despite Shelly Shapiro herself dropping into the thread to debunk them. Said thread claims things like:

Luceno's actually detailed in several interviews the plans that he and Brian had for the SW EU when they were contacted about kicking it off --- but all of this was in the late eighties, before Bantam even got the license. Daley was too ill to co-write the last three Robotech books by 1994, and he passed away in 1996 --- pretty sure he wasn't planning any sort of post-Bantam storyline. The Wook page on the Dark Horse Invasion Storyline claimed, when it was created in 2006 (under the name "Bantam/Dark Horse Invasion storyline"), that Luceno was at a "Bantam story conference" in 1998, but in reality Luceno was first contacted by Del Rey about the project because they were familiar with his Robotech work.

As for the rumors about Zahn and Stackpole being involved? I honestly think they were nothing but conjecture based on Zahn introducing the Unknown Regions threats and including Baron Fel. I regret even bringing those rumors up in this thread, and I hope they'll stay dead and buried forever.