Princess Leia Leia ANH First Gown...Help me... Obiwan Kenobi....;

Discussion in 'Costuming and Props' started by JediMasterLeia, Jul 29, 2002.

Moderators: Commander-DWH
  1. lucialeria Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2005
    star 1
    just finished posting pics from floor, literally up leia's dress at:

    http://s65.photobucket.com/albums/h224/Lucialeria/CSC%20-%20Up%20Leias%20Dress/

    Check out photos 2071 and 2072 also P4190037

    I totally get and feel strongly that both dresses were now dual layered. So what's this OTHER layer? The mannequin is human formed and wouldn't need assistance to fill out the costume. And it wouldn't get cold... so what is this third? layer of what looks like a warmer and very different fabric?

    Also got great shots of belt medallions and their rivet attachments. And I've got a theory on origins of this belt... so here goes. I think this is the stunt belt from the ANH chasm swing. Carrie and Luke both had harnesses on under their costumes, as reported in Empire of Dreams docu. I think THIS belt was the belt used to gather the larger waistband of the dress and more securely than the softer leather belt. In all shots from this scene the belt appears thicker. I think this belt was used here to make Carrie's artificially enlarged waist appear smaller by itself being just a percentage bigger.

    As for collar, high res shots from HD version and already posted observations on height/width differences of collar from one film to the other make me think the ANH collar was sewn differently. Mike has yet to explain to me exactly how in a way that I can describe right now. He has to use his hands to explain the folds to me and he's at work. So more on that later...

    Got next day air on Making of Star Wars hoping for insights. A few neat observations there, but not anything unknown. A couple of great photos that just raise more questions than provide answers. Is anyone here going to Celebration Europe? Bet Mollo's going to be there... but then I think his Berman's seamstress was empowered with ALOT of freedom to interpret Mollo's sketched designs so... even he may not know much. But perhaps he would remember the seamstress's name.. and then another search begins...

    Alli
  2. luminousbeing78 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 2005
    star 1
    Thanks for all the great photos! I just finished the gown tonight, and the pics make me feel a little better about my hoodie...I thought mine looked too short, or maybe I'm too tall lol! All I have left now is to attach the aluminum pieces to the belt.
    I had fits with the collar. Somehow the neck hole stretched, and I had to gather it a little before sewing the hood and collar on permenantly. Honestly, I nearly cried.
    **Slightly off topic...well, not really: Since I won't be able to finish my picnic gown corset in time :_| , I've decided to make the "clone wars cartoon" style Leia dress with some leftover white spandex. My question is this: I don't have enough to line the dress fully, but I do have a white long-sleeve leotard from my dancin' days. Would this be enough, or would it be best to line it top to bottom? I'm torn....I want to line it, but I get very very warm at cons....any advice would be welcome!
  3. Last_Chael Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2006
    star 4
    Thanks for the photos, they're brilliant!! :D It's really wonderful to read your speculations and theories about this dress! The detail is excellent! :D

    In regards to the third layer, it looks to me like wadding (the stuff you put in quilts). I doubt it would have been there in the movie. Possibly they're using it to give the skirt a bit of shape?
  4. kay_dee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 4
    I learn new things on almost all my projects. For this costume, I read up a bit on sewing with knits (bought a book on it) and with things like neck holes, you are supposed to run a line of stay stitching right after you cut your fabric pieces so the neck won't stretch as you work with it and add the collar to it.

    As for the clone wars Leia - I can't envision which costume that is? Do you mean the animated maquette? Hummm... lining it would probably be best. But only lining it partially won't look right either since you'd probably notice a difference in opacity. And if the sleeves are wide, you'd see your leotard long sleeve underneath. I'm not sure what the solution is?

    I'm so sorry you couldn't get your picnic dress done in time :( But it's better not to rush it. You can bring it to Dragon*Con and other conventions.
  5. kay_dee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 4
    Wow Alli, you got some shots I didn't get. And I spent half my night on preview night stuck at that costume. LOL! That's why it's great when more than one person takes obsessive photographs :)

    3rd Layer?: I agree, that is just a layer of batting you spotted under the dress and under the sleeve and is only used for putting things on the dress forms to help the costumes drape or flow well while on display. This stuff was on Han at FIDM, and lots of tissue paper was used under Padme's dresses at FIDM too. So no, there is no undersleeve or 3rd layer to the dress as far as I can ascertain.

    Belt:
    Nice shot of the rivet! I was trying every which way to see if I could spot the way those darn things are attached on the belt.

    My theory on the belt we see on display - they made a new one for Empire. Just like they made a new dress. That's not to say that they might not have had to make a special stunt belt for ANH, but sometimes the easier explanation seems just as logical. Another idea... Star Wars Holiday Special!

    So many versions of this dress! ANH, Promo, and Empire... I wish I had time to upload comparison photos right now. But I was just comparing the Empire dress (photo taken during Empire with Luke) to the promo version of the dress where Carrie holds the Stormtrooper blaster (red background). These dresses are different! The collar on Empire is much shorter than the what I call the 'promo' version of the dress. I still can't decide if the collar at the museum exhibit is quite as short as the Empire dress collar though. I am torn between thinking that the museum exhibit might be the Empire Dress (although the collar looks about 1/4" to 1/2" too tall) or the promotional version of the dress seen in all the photos that appear to have been taken after Star Wars had finished filming. The sleeve opening on the museum dress matches that on all the promotional photos anyway.

    I still think it is very funny that there are so many versions of this ONE iconic dress. And most people just see a white dress with a hood and call it Leia. I think even John Mallo and the seamstresses working for Berman's would think we are CRAZY for noticing these little differences. I hardly think they would remember. It was just another job and another thing they had to sew for one of hundreds of productions they worked on.

    Making of Star Wars Book
    Lastly, regarding the Making of Star Wars book... I have not had a chance to sit down and read it yet. But I went to the book signing over the weekend. Since the author worked as an editor on Dressing A Galaxy, I told him a lot of us appreciated the side bars in that book addressing the Original Trilogy costumes... but we would have liked to have seen more about the OT costumes! So what are the chances that we would ever see a book that focused on the costumes of the Original Trilogy? He said it's not very likely. DAG was pretty much done specifically for Trisha (maybe as a favor) to help with her Oscar Nomination and aspirations. He even wondered if you could have a book about John Mallo's designs, since they were so heavily based on Ralph Mcquarrie's concept art. (I think he failed to see my point - credit whomever you must for the designs and concepts - we just want to know more about the OT costumes! I didn't say that to him though.) I then said to him, 'well, there would be some interest in a book like that...' but I understood that for starters, most of the costumes are not part of the LFL archive. They seem to have been auctioned off and are part of private collections. Detailed photos of many of the costumes just don't exist - etc. He agreed that yes, much of it was the property of Berman's.

    Haha - I think he's doing autograph signings at C4. We should all just kind of mention 'hey, what about an OT costume book' Maybe if we all nag him he'll have to mention it to the powers that be at Lucas Publishing! LOL!
  6. luminousbeing78 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 2005
    star 1
    Thanks, Kay Dee...stay stitching....that's what my mom told me as well. AAARRRGGG!! It was weeks beteween the time I cut it out and the time I actually started it. The maquette version, well, I'm lining it. I think that would be best as well. I've always thought it was so cute, and I made a mock-up....you were right--the leotard looked crazy. Lining is the way to go. As for the picnic corset, it'll give me something to do over the summer during breaks while working on my MR dress...:)
  7. lavagrrrl Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 4
    Amazing photos!

    I've seen the exhibit twice, and the dress was on the form in different ways both times. I also crawled on the floor, but you both got much better photos. Thanks for sharing your observations. :D
  8. luminousbeing78 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 2005
    star 1
    [image=http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x273/luminousbeing78/100_0019.jpg]

    Just finished my dress and belt...I hope the pleating at the neck does not compromise the dress too much. It is so comfy, though, and I can't wait to wear it!
  9. kay_dee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 4
    It looks nice! And it seems you were able to disguise the pleating toward the back so it is hidden by the hood.

    Hopefully we can all agree on a photo shoot date at C4 - oh boy!
  10. HeatherD Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2005
    star 1
    She must have been, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to keep the PG rating! Everybody knows what happens to wet white swimsuits, lol
  11. HeatherD Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2005
    star 1
    I just finished reading all 24 pages! *falls off chair* All of my questions have now been answered, yay! lol. I'm sure I'll think of some more later :D About how long does this thing take to put together, do you think?
  12. kay_dee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 4
    Congrats on reading everything! We have accumulated a lot of information on such a seemingly simple dress :)

    Oh gosh, Some people whip this together in a day or two. My first one took probably a month simply because I'm a slow perfectionist and I kept redrafting my patterns over and over until I was happy with them. Now when I make the costume (and I know what I'm doing) it usually takes me a week or so when you include the belt. (it takes time to let the paint dry between coats each day). But I also serge the entire thing, and do the hem and the hood rolled hem all by hand which takes a little more time.
  13. luminousbeing78 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 2005
    star 1
    Kay_Dee, I hear you on the hand sewn hem issue. I'm finishing up the 'Maquette' Leia, and after serging all the edges I'm finding out fast how easily this thick spandex starts to pucker under a regular machine (the serger works wonders, though). The entire bottom hem now has to be hand-sewn. Oh, well...what's a couple more days? :)
    p.s.- I love the belt for this version...I'd almost wear it to work lol!
  14. HeatherD Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2005
    star 1
    My mom has a serger, but we don't know how to work it! lol! That's definitely a skill I need to master, I've progressed to the point where unfinished seams in my work are getting to be unacceptable. *sigh* I'm weighing wether I want to whip together something quick for C4, or just concentrate on finishing/fixing my brother's Obi-Wan costume and replacing the beading on my Tatooine Padme... Princess Leia will probably have to wait for Halloween :(
  15. Neimhaille Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2002
    star 3
    I did the Gentle Giant clone wars style Leia and self lined was the way to go. Seeing the photos of the original I think I'm going to take the hood off and redo it as a single layer so it doesn't keep slipping off my head;)
    Pics and another and in the process of making it.
  16. SWCostumer Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2005
    star 2
    Very nice!

    I Leia ensemble is as finished as it is going to be for CIV. Instead of making boots from scratch (will do that at some other time when I have a bunch of time), I found my majorette boots and made vinyl boot covers.
  17. Aiel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 4
    Wookieepedia's Article on Leia has a new pic.

    [image=http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/f/ff/Leia_photomasher.jpg]

    You can see the split to the knee in the dress really well in this one.
  18. HeatherD Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2005
    star 1
    Yeah, the other pics with the slit above the knee were of her flying through the air and in the garbage compactor... I had wondered if it was just cause her skirt was hiked up :D
  19. kay_dee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 4
    Oh, nice photo! It's always been tough to tell just exactly where the slit ends. I have always guessed around the height of the knee - but I guess it is just an inch or two lower than I was imagining :)
  20. lucialeria Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2005
    star 1
    I can't believe we forgot to post here yet. So here's the info on the White Leia shoot at C4:


    IT'S OFFICIAL!

    WHAT: An exclusive photo shoot for the Classic Senate 'turtle neck & buns' dress Leias - with other white ANH variants (Ceremonial, Cartoon, Poster Dress) welcome to join! There will be a combined shoot and then individual shoots for each version.

    WHO:We'd love to see everyone with this costume show up for this historic FIRST group photo for this costume. It could be the second largest gathering of white seen at the convention! Please bring your cameras, and feel free to bring a photographer/handler with you to assist with photos. If possible costumes are recommended but not required for handlers. Costumers are easier to walk past security.

    WHERE: The photos will be taken in the R2 builders club room (ROOM 501ABC WEST MEETING ROOMS) for the express purpose of allowing each Leia a photo op with an R2 as well as the Tantive IV hallway replica.

    WHEN: We plan to meet in line at the West Gate Lobby entrance at 8:30am on Saturday. This is the fan shaped arch just to the right of the Concourse. It is the main entrance seen at the right of this photo. If the line is long, we will do our best to arrange for an escort to get us into the convention early for our scheduled photo shoot. We are scheduled to have private access to the R2D2 Builders room from 9:00am - 10:00 am.

    IF THIS MEETING LOCATION CHANGES WE WILL POST AN UPDATE

    SIGN UP: Please reply in this thread(http://boards.theforce.net/costuming_and_props/b10019/26449583/p5) if you are able to join us. Let us know which costume you will wear, and if you have a Rebel Legion screen name that is different than TFN - please post that name as well so we can keep our head count straight.

    CONTACT: Please feel free to PM Kay Dee, at force.net or Rebel Legion, if you'd like to exchange phone numbers just in case we have last minute changes.

    S_S edit: linked thread
  21. lucialeria Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2005
    star 1
    I've been studying the hood and collar attachment of this dress, and you know what that means! More wild theories follow...

    I know there were 4 dresses made of this senate dress from a direct quote from Carrie in an interview from the '70s. I'm convinced now that there were TWO versions of the dress in the movie.

    1) Stunt versions were a slightly more sturdy material, thicker?, and the hood attachment started further back on the shoulders with less precise pleating. Used for action scenes.

    2) Glamour versions. Thinner, even translucent under certain stage lighting. The collar is attached further forward on the shoulders, and the pleating is immaculate. Used for closeups and during scenes shot last but aired first in the film.

    I also think there were two versions of the belt, stunt and glamour. But I think I already talked about this a couple of pages ago.

    And I think it's funny that Leia's buns got progressively smaller as filming progressed. Perhaps because the hairdresser was getting the hang of doing the style. But because they shot out of sequence this makes her bun size irregular throughout.

    When I get the time, I'll post pics supporting the theories. But for now, gotta touch up some boots!

    Alli
  22. kay_dee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 4
    I attended Carrie's panel on Saturday evening and she commented on how they did her hair for the movie. She said they pinned her own thin shoulder length hair up on the sides (she is the one who said her hair is thin), and then spent '2 hours' (she may have been exaggerating for comic effect...) attaching long ponytail extensions to the side of her head swirling new buns each day. (she held her arm far out to the side to demonstrate the length of the extensions)

    Subsequently when she did a spoof skit on Satruday Night Live a few years later, it only took them a minute to pop on pre-made buns and I think she wondered why they didn't do it that way in the movie!

    I also ran into BibaFett and another woman who works for the LucasFilm archive when I was in the archive room. I asked the burning question about "is it true, there are hardly any ANH costumes in the archive because they were not saved?" She said yes. I asked if it was because some of it was property of Bermans... She said essentially 'they had no idea Star Wars would be popular. No reason to save anything. Things just went into dumpsters.' I then followed it up with the question about the multiple white Leia costumes. I told her it appears Carrie is wearing a different version of the costume in promotional photos... the sleeves have a different cut and drape...' She said 'That is an authentic dress, it's been confirmed' and I said 'no, I do believe that is authentic, but we think there was more than one white dress. In fact, she wears a slightly different version of the white dress at the end of Empire and we think that is probably the dress on display at the exhibits due to the shape of the sleeves.' She said something like, 'I'd have to research that... that could be, I really don't know.' And I also mentioned how they do show two versions of the white dress at the back of the DAG book. (Just so they wouldn't think I'm totally off my rocker with a wild theory).

    So, the mystery isn't solved, but I at least I asked!
  23. Last_Chael Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2006
    star 4
    Thanks Kay_dee, that's great information!!

    The way Carrie described the hair is how I do mine currently :D Morgan and I were having a discussion about how the buns were done. She didn't agree that they were jsut the simple twist and wrap that all of us do :p Good to hear it from the horses mouth so to speak.

    The mystery will be solved eventually!! :D
  24. lucialeria Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2005
    star 1
    Fabulous info! More of same please. Who's going to Europe? Mollo is going to be there!!!

    Personally I believe only ONE of the original dresses MAY survive in the archives. I've heard reports, from several sources, about a ripped dress held in the archives. I believe it was info (not PRECISELY duplicated) from this dress from which the holiday special/promo/end of empire dress was made. Which I ALSO thought were two different dresses until Michael argued me out of the idea.

    I know, I know! The neck is different. But... he and I had a knock down, drag out (figuratively speaking but there was crying) about it. I think I even posted once about 'holy crap I think there're 3 dresses not two' kind of thing without going on further. BUT now, upon CAREFUL examination. And you know what that means... I've found 13 differences between the TWO, count 'em two, dresses. And besides the neck thing, I think the promo/end of empire/holiday special dress may be all in the same. No mannequin has ever been as tiny as Carrie, so I feel that the polyester that flows great when in the right volume, would in fact flow correctly when on her as opposed to any mannequin it's yet been on.

    Again, as soon as I can stand to show my diagrams. Oh yes, I have diagrams. I'll post volumes of useless ponderings on this great white whale of dress. My Moby Dress, just call me Ahab.

    Allihab
  25. FenigDurak Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 6, 2002
    star 4
    I've been rocking the pre-made buns since the COSi event last July. I LOVE them. Takes me significantly less time to get ready than it used to. I would struggle and fight to keep the buns even and smooth while pinning everything in place. Now, I just pin and go. It's fabulous.

    Pre-made Buns
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