Leia did not have to have been very old to retain some memories of her mother

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith (Non-Spoilers)' started by PDZSY, Jul 9, 2002.

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  1. PDZSY Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 1
    Why does everyone think that just becuase Leia had memories of her mother, she has to be 4 or 5 before Padme' gets killed. You forget that Leia is a Jedi, just like Luke, and she could be just as powerful if she trained hard enough. Don't you think that Jedi, since they're more attuned to the Force, could be able to remember things better then regular beings. Also, in ROTJ, Leia does not say she REMEMBERS her mother, all she says is this (and I quote this exactly): "She died when I was VERY YOUNG. I only RECALL A LITTLE...FEELINGS,really...IMAGES. She was very beautiful. GENTLE, and KIND...but SAD."

    All of the capitalized words are evidence that she did not have to be past a year old to have IMAGES of her mother. I'll elaborate on the capitalized words:

    VERY YOUNG: She said her mother died when she was very young. Very young would mean 1 or 2 years old, maybe even less for someone with Force ability.

    RECALL A LITTLE: "Recall" means that she has to search her memories, not that she just remembers. When she did recall it, it was only "a little."

    FEELINGS: This one just did it for me. Jedi always talk about feeling the Force flowing through everything around you. If Leia had Jedi abilities when she was young, she would have been able to feel her mother and her mother's emotions.

    IMAGES: This is another good one. An image is not a memory, it is a frozen picture in one's mind, but it doesn't have a lot of depth to it like memories do. Get what I'm saying, Leia didn't have solid, concrete memories of her mother, she had images of her mother buried deep within her mind that only the use of the Force can unlock.

    GENTLE/KIND: These two words kind of go together. They are traits that we all know Padme' has. Obviously, if Leia was able to feel Padme' with the Force, she would sense her characterization traits.

    SAD: Like I said earlier, she could sense emotions. People seem to think babies are so dumb and helpless, but let me tell you something. Babies can sense when they're mom is feeling sad, and a baby with the Force could do this easily. Padme' was of course, feeling sad at the time because of obvious reasons.

    What I'm trying to say is Leia was not a normal baby, she had special powers. Have you ever wondered why she grew up to be such a great diplomat? Maybe the answer to that question is that she has great long and short-term memory skills powered by the Force. I hope very much so that Padme's death is shown on screen, as I have said before, she is too much of an important character to just fade away. She deserves (even more then Mace) a dramatic death. I sure hope more then ever that the Force is with George Lucas in his decision on Padme's death.

    To sum this all up, Leia does not have to be as old as we think she does to have images of her mother.
  2. CyberMasterWindu Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 1
    Okay you bring up some excellent points. Here are a couple of questions that I have. Let's assume that the twins are born in Episode III (shown on screen). You say Leia would be about 1 year old to have images or feelings of her mother. I doubt Episode III will take one year to play out as Star Wars movies generally only involve a couple of days. So maybe the twins will be born before Episode III (I doubt it). Otherwise Padmé would not die in Episode III. Or maybe Leia can recall these images, these feelings of her mother all the back to the time that she was an infant.
  3. DarthMaul13 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 1998
    star 4
    The idea that the twins are born before Episode 3, should not be thrown out the window, because its very likely.
  4. PDZSY Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 1
    I agree Darth Maul, the twins could very easily (and more sensibly) be born before Episode III. I personally think Lucas would be very wise to do this, but there would be a few problems with the whole seperation issue.

    CyberMaceWindu, I see your point, Star War movies usually cover a period of days, and it would be really different for it to do otherwise. As for your question, I guess that maybe Leia could be an infant when Padme' is killed. It really depends on if the twins are born before Episode III and how strong in the Force Leia is. I would imagine she is very strong, but the hard part is you just don't know for sure because you never really see her Force skills in action. You don't even see her use them that much in the EU. But if she is as strong as Luke, I would not be surprised if she could retain some memories of her mother when she was an infant.

    One thing's for sure, though. If I have to choose between seeing the twins get born or finding out how Padme' gets killed. I choose Padme'. I mean there' really not that much to see with the twins. I would rather see a dramatic and emotional scene where Padme' is killed and Anakin goes into a rage never before seen. Therefore, giving to his hatred and becoming Darth Vader. Good questions, though.
  5. Vaderbait Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 6
    Where's the proof the mother Leia remembered was actually her mother? All logic points to her being separated at or right after birth. Padme will die. The only real question is when the twins are born. Me, personally, I don't want to see infants (except a little bundle for Luke, which technically doesn't LOOK like an infant) in Star Wars, and I don't want to see toddlers. But they DO have to be born, so I'm hoping they're just mentioned with the exception of Luke, who has to be seen (at least as a brown bundle).

    A birth in Star Wars would be pretty lame, too. Obi-Wan: "Padme, push! Push!" :p
  6. PDZSY Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 1
    It is possible that the mother Leia remembers was someone different then Padme', but don't you think that would kind of ruin the well-known scene in ROTJ where Leia tells Luke about his mother. I mean that scene has a lot of emotional impact and I don't think Lucas would have put that scene in ROTJ if only to erase all the meaning out of it in the PT. Don't get me wrong it could happen, I just don't think it will. I hope Episode III's story doesn't focus completely on Luke and Leia the entire movie. There's too many other more important things I want wrapped up such as Anakin's turn to the dark side, the Jedi Purge, beginning of the Empire, and of course Padme's death. These are good posts, I'm glad everyone's giving them a lot of thought. Keep'em coming!
  7. Vaderbait Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 6
    Yeah, I think her remembering her wrong mother would overcomplicate things. I just wanted to throw another scenario out there.
  8. Tiershon_Fett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2000
    star 5
    A birth in Star Wars would be pretty lame, too. Obi-Wan: "Padme, push! Push!"


    LOL! That reminds me of Worf and Keiko in ST:TNG. Worf: It says here I must intruct you to push. Push Keiko!

    I could just see Obi-wan akwardly holding a datapad with his white clothes on, trying to be controlled.... Gosh, why can't I do Flash? It'd be so fun.........
  9. That_Wascally_Droid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2001
    star 6
    You didn't quote that exactly right PDZSY ;)
    I'm smart aren't I? Picking on the guy I agree with :p
    I agree, I don't think she'd be too young to remember Padme. We don't know how long she's with Padme before she's seperated. A few weeks with Force induced recollections would be plenty of time.
    I mean, she couldn't even remember a name or anything.
    'She was very beautiful. . . kind, but. . . sad. . . kinda looked like Natalie Portman. Why are you asking me ths?'
  10. 1point95gpa Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2002
    I think that remembering her wrong mother would be perfect for Star Wars. It's just that kind of thing that made the original movies unique. What makes Star Wars, and other great movies into the "classics" that they are, is the fact that you actually have to think about them. Not all questions are answered directly.
  11. That_Wascally_Droid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2001
    star 6
    Actually, Star Wars wraps up rather nice and neatly. . .
  12. PDZSY Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 1
    You're right, Wascally Droid, George Lucas does have a way of wrapping up each trilogy nicely, and I doubt he'd leave any loose ends at this stage in the game. Anything can happen in Star Wars, but I highly doubt that the mother Leia referred to was someone other then Padme'. Like I said before, that would just ruin one of the most well-known and emotional scenes in Star Wars. That was a different and unique idea, though. Good thinking.
  13. DarthTerrious Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    This is one of the those grey areas for me. Something I can't be conclusive on.
    Rick once said "The twins will be born at the end of Episode 3"
    Which brings around a strong hint hat Padme may survive.

    But knowing a dark ending as I do, she is more likely to be killed at the end.

    And knowing Leia's force sensitivity, it is possible that she does have a memory of her mother when she is born.

    Depends on what you believe.
  14. thenink Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2002
    star 2
    I still say Padme won't die in Episode 3!

    The twins will be born and seperated. Maybe the last shot of EP3 is Padme sitting and rocking Leia and looking wistfully into the sunset, who knows!



    EAT KRISPY KREME'S ! :D
  15. Mech-E_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    star 2
    Why does "everyone" want to see Padme die? I don't think it will happen. I mean, think about it: Luke asks Leia about her real mother, i.e. Padme - "She died when I was very young." That means that Leia would have to have been old enough to remember her, so that's about what . . . 4 or 5 years old?

    I disagree with the sentiment that Leia could remember things about Padme at age 1 or 2. Ask yourself how much you remember of your life at that age.

    I don't think GL is going to have Padme get knocked up in between AOTC and EPIII - it wouldn't fit the story. Anakin knows of the pregnancy, but not the details of the birth, which means that during those 9 months, he falls to the dark side, and Obi-wan put Padme into hiding.

    I suspect that Padme will survive EPIII and we are to simply know that she died between the PT and the OT.

    My two and a half cents . . .
  16. Mech-E_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    star 2
    Also - how sure are we (the fan-base) that a being's (very early) memory is amplified through the Force?

    Then wouldn't all Jedi of PT times remember images or feelings of thier "real" parents.





    That actually sounds like a good idea for a seperate post - does the Force let you "remember" things you were too young to understand in the first place?
  17. Derrinson Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Even if Jedi did remember who their parents were like Leia did, they would have just remembered feelings and images. Not enough to go galavanting around the galaxy like Anakin trying to find their parents and disrupting their training. Also, while it might be kind of interesting to have Leia recall her foster mother, I think Luke asks her if she remembers her REAL mother(something along the lines of "do you remember your mother? Your real mother?"). I think the explanation that the Force is allowing her to recall her mother is plausible. Excellent theories here.
  18. Angel_of_Naboo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2000
    star 4
    I agree with most of what has been said here, but who said Padmé's going to die in EpIII? We don't know that for a fact. Still very interesting thories.
  19. PDZSY Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 1
    These are all great discussions and I agree with a lot of them, but there are a few I disagree with.

    Mech-E-Jedi, there are a few things that you said that I respectively don't understand. Allow me to elaborate:

    1. "i.e. Padme - "She died when I was very young." That means that Leia would have to have been old enough to remember her, so that's about what . . . 4 or 5 years old?"

    Why does "very young" mean she has to be 4 or 5 years old? When I hear someone say that, I think of 1 or 2 (maybe even less).

    2. "I disagree with the sentiment that Leia could remember things about Padme at age 1 or 2. Ask yourself how much you remember of your life at that age."

    You're absolutely right, I don't remember anything when I was 1 or 2, but then again I didn't have Force ability, now did I? What I or anyone else remembers from that time has nothing to do with this. Leia's the one we're talking about, and she definitely has Force ability (and probably a lot considering Luke's her brother).

    3. "I suspect that Padme will survive EPIII and we are to simply know that she died between the PT and the OT."

    I very much so respect your opinion, but with all due respect, that would be so dissapointing. I mean, don't you want to know? You hear about it in the old trilogy, and have had to sit around wondering about it since the first time you were old enough to understand ROTJ. Is it good enough for you to just simply know that she dies, or wouldn't you rather know how it happens (and see it on screen). I sure would.

    4. "Also - how sure are we (the fan-base) that a being's (very early) memory is amplified through the Force?"

    First of all, anything can happen, this is Star Wars, afterall. A memory may very well not be amplified by the Force. However, based on what we've seen of the Force's almost limitless power, I think there is a very good chance it could amplify your memory. Like I said before, She didn't have a memory. She had an image. The dictionary defines "memory" as the "ability to recall past experience." It defines "image" as "a picture." Big difference there. She had images, not memories. That means she did not have to have been and really could not have been very old to have images of her mother. Watch that part in ROTJ, she didn't say memories, she said images.

    5. "Then wouldn't all Jedi of PT times remember images or feelings of thier "real" parents."

    They very well could, but not all Jedi were born under the circumstances that Leia and Luke were born into.

    Mech-E-Jedi, I do think you have very good ideas, I just can't imagine why or how they could happen, that's all. I just want you to know, I'm respectively disagreeing with you, I don't mean to sound like I hate what you're saying or anything, because they could happen, who knows?

    Derrinson made a very good point. When Luke asked Leia about her mother, he definitely said REAL mother. This means that Leia probably did have a foster mother (Bail Organa's wife), but did retain memories of Padme'. Once again, this evidence suggests that Padme' almost had to get killed when Leia was very young for this to make sense. Thanks for adding that in, Derrinson.

    Padme' is a main character of the prequel trilogy. Jar Jar is the type of character to just fade away (though I hope he doesn't just fade away, that's probably what's going to happen). Padme's character deserves a good, full, and dramatic ending. Even if it's a sad ending, she deserves it. Then, when we see the scene in ROTJ where Leia tells Luke about his mother, we'll once and for all know what exactly happened and that scene will have awesome emotional impact (even more than it does now).

  20. Lukecash Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 4
    I do not imagine Lucas would have Padme, an major character-die off screen. To have her live in episode II and NOT show up in the next three episodes is would make no sense story-wise.

    Padme represents Anakins last hope for redemption...when he falls-the last bit of hope needs to be estinquished too. By the End of Episode III all must appear to be lost...

    Lucas will have some form of clouser. It is also very likely that Padme would die rather than be seperated from her children.

  21. PDZSY Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 1
    "I do not imagine Lucas would have Padme, an major character-die off screen. To have her live in episode II and NOT show up in the next three episodes is would make no sense story-wise."
    --Lukecash

    You said it! You took the words right out of my mouth! That is EXACTLY how I feel. Way to think, Lukecash!

  22. PDZSY Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 1
    Padme' is one of the main characters and main characters always have a closure of some kind, they just don't fade away. Lucas knows this, and he will show Padme's death on-screen. At least I hope so, anyway.

  23. ChopperFace Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    Psychology says that kids don't remember anything before about 3 years old. I assume she would be about 3 or at the absolute youngest 2 and a half or so to have such memories.

    Of course we can always play the "from a certain point of view" card and Leia's talking about a picture of her crying or something mind blowingly retarded like that.
  24. JediLord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2000
    star 4
    I have said his for years. AS far as I am concerned, she can 2 days old and it is still plausible.
  25. PDZSY Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 1
    I agree, JediLord. How old Leia is (if she is as strong in the Force as expected) has nothing to do with wether or not Padme' will get killed in Episode III. We do not yet know what effect the Force has on them when Jedi are infants. Hopefully, Episode III will reveal more.

    ChopperFace, Your right about non-Force using human psychology, but we're talking about Force-sensitive babies right now. I don't think regular human psychology necessarily applies to Jedi. I do think your whole "certain point of view" theorie could happen, especially considering how a lot of things in Star Wars are done from "a certain point of view."

    Good posts and interesting ideas. Keepem' coming!
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