CT Leia Organa's Personal Flaws

You’re right, she did eventually kill Jabba…but I don’t see how you make the claim that she freed Han. All she did get was get herself enslaved and (it’s heavily implied) raped by a giant space slug. Luke orchestrated that rescue.

As for the bike scene, I just revisited it on YouTube. Luke clearly takes the lead here and she eventually ends up crashing her bike into a tree.

She used to be this cool badass chick who took charge of her own rescue from the two dunces who clearly had no idea what they were doing. In JEDI, she’s just boring and forgettable. No attitude. No witty repartee. No badass moments (aside from strangling Jabba with the chain, that was awesome!). In JEDI, she’s just the Chick…and that’s lame. Everything that made her great in the first two films is completely forgotten about.

 

"We surrender!"

No, not every woman needs to be a badass. But at the same time, a women should be considered flawed because she takes charge.

She did have a plan.

Leia's bike was shot by the Scout Trooper, which forced her to jump off. And if we're going to talk about crashing, let's remember that Luke crashed his Speeder Bike as well. Not to mention his X-Wing and his T-47.

 

Remember in ESB when the Falcon landed on Needa's Star Destroyer, 3P0 was babbling on annoyingly and Leia just casually switched him off. That's just rude, IMO. I bet the sentient-rights-for-droids groups would rip her to shreds over the way she totally ignored and ran roughshod over the rights of inorganic beings.

 

They'd then remember that it was C3PO and figure they'd probably let this one slide.

 

I don't know, I know I've read a lot of OT critics that prefer the PT that point out Luke whining for a good bit of the first half of ANH.

That being said, I agree with you on Leia. She's the most badass character in the entire saga in my book.

 

Better that she shut him off before Han ordered Chewie to switch him off...permanently.

 

Any plan that involves “my sister gets raped by a giant space slug” is a horrible plan.

Fair enough. I guess they both attended the Counselor Troi School of Driving. Wonder if they were in the same class as Bruce Wayne.

 

Ordered? You mean like a slave?!

Chewbacca is an individual that has agency over his/her/it's own decisions. No one can tell him/her/it what to do.

 

Chewie would oblige willingly, even zealously. He also pulled the plug on 3P0, when Goldenmouth was complaining about his head being installed just a little crooked, a mere 180 degrees off.

 

This is brilliant, I couldn't have said it any better myself.

 

The first part of the plan was infiltration which was Lando's job. The second was negotiation which is why Luke sent the droids in with his offer to barter, but also to have his Lightsaber at the ready. When Lando reported back that Jabba refused, Leia's job was to get Chewie inside and then she could get Han out, while Lando could get Chewie and the droids out. Unfortunately, Jabba became suspicious and figured out, or found out that Boushh was dead. Luke might have anticipated that she'd be captured, but nothing else. Fortunately, she knew that Luke would come for them which is why she said that she has powerful allies. Leia knew the risks going in and she was willing to take them. And besides, Luke doesn't know that Leia is his sister yet.

Fair enough. I guess they both attended the Counselor Troi School of Driving. Wonder if they were in the same class as Bruce Wayne.[/quote]


First off, Deanna Troi had no choice in trying to pilot the Enterprise D's saucer section which was badly damaged into Veridian III. The helm control was almost non responsive. With the Enterprise E, Picard told her to ram the Scimitar. Second, Bruce Wayne intentionally crashed his Lamborghini to save Reese's neck. There's a difference between intentionally crashing and crashing because you were shot off your bike.

No, ordered as in Han is the captain of his ship and Chewie is his first mate and does what he is told to do. Han does nothing but bark orders at Chewie in all three films.

"Chewie, get us out of here!"
"Get in there you hairy oaf!"
"Get down here, she's wounded."

 

Granted, I tend to blame Riker for that more than Troi. Letting your girlfriend drive the ship in a situation like that is a horrible idea, and one that makes Captain Jellico look absolutely correct in his assertion that Riker is “not a particularly good first officer”. On the other hand, Riker is an outstanding pilot, by all accounts. Even Jellico conceded that Riker was “the best pilot on the ship”. Maybe Riker should’ve been at the helm at that point, since he is, according to Geordi, “the best [pilot] there is”. But no, in a critical moment, don’t hand the helm over to the best pilot on the ship. Hand it over to your girlfriend.

As for Batman, I was actually referring to him totaling the Batmobile.

 

Riker cannot command and pilot at the same time. That's why the Enterprise E had the manual control stick where such a thing could be done. As to the Batmobile, he intentionally took a shot from the Joker's rocket launcher to save Harvey and the cops inside. He couldn't help but crash, same with Leia. Fortunately, he had the Bat Pod as a backup.

 

Whoever orchestrated the rescue (it's not stated on-screen who, so asserting it was Luke is an appeal to outdated EU), it was Leia who risked life and limb by threatening Jabba and his entourage with a thermal detonator, Leia who physically freed Han from carbonite and was there to comfort him when he came out of it, Leia who killed her captor with her own hands, and Leia who blew up the skiff. Also, at no point is it implied, heavily or otherwise, that Jabba raped her. You're exaggerating some elements and ignoring others to arrive at your conclusion that Leia is boring or forgettable in ROTJ.

 

Fair enough, but we don't know who planned the attack in its entirety. It seems reasonable that Luke was the main designer, but Lando, Leia and Chewie for that matter might have had some contributions to the scheme. She had to learn the Boussh dialect, after all, and obtain the suit and detonator. What might have led to that idea, unless she was already familiar with that language and culture to some extent? Her entire part might have been her idea, is all I'm saying.

 

Hand command over to Worf or Geordi then. At that moment, he’s more needed at the helm. Remember that even Jellico, who thought Riker was a bad officer, admitted that he was a fantastic pilot. Under those circumstances, taking charge of the helm is, to paraphrase Spock, Riker’s first best destiny, and anything else is a waste of material.

 

According to Lucas, it was Luke's plan.

Worf is at tactical where he is best and Geordi is busy in Engineering. Picard did the same thing himself by letting Troi helm the Enterprise E and not someone else.

 

EVERY SINGLE DETAIL DOWN TO BOUSSH'S ACCENT WAS CREATED BY LUKE AND THEN DOLED OUT TO THE OTHERS WITH NO DISSENT ALLOWED OR MODIFICATIONS ACCEPTED

 

OK, then. Tell me who was at tactical aboard the USS Defiant whenever Worf had to take command of that ship.

Now since we can agree that Riker was a better pilot than officer, use him where he’s at his best. Don’t just have your girlfriend drive the ship. I mean, what makes more sense? Put the best pilot on the ship at the helm, or put the ship’s therapist (who happens to be your girlfriend) at the helm.

Picard took advantage of her one skill: crashing the ship into things. What does it say about a character when her only skill is crashing the ship?

 

The Defiant is a different matter. Different commanding officer and different situation. And in case you forgot, Worf wasn't at the helm when the Defiant was facing off against the Borg Cube in "First Contact". Nor at tactical.

First, is this a woman driver thing? Because that's sexist. Second, Riker wasn't on the bridge. He was busy going after the Viceroy, along with Worf. Picard had Data and Geordi remain at their posts. He didn't tell them to move because Shinzon would figure it out while he was busy distracting him and telling Troi what to do. He used Deanna because she was there. It had nothing to do with crashing a ship that was already going to crash in the first place. Even Riker couldn't stop the Enterprise D saucer section from crashing.

Finally, she doesn't helm because her job is ship's counselor. That's why she never helmed the shuttlecraft when she was a passenger.

 

In other words, they had someone who could take command of tactical if Worf needed to take command. Similarly, I’m sure that they could’ve arranged for someone to take up Worf’s position at tactical aboard the Enterprise if he needed to take command while Riker took the helm. Hell, who was at engineering all those times in the original series when Scotty would take command while Kirk, Spock, and McCoy beamed down to the planet?

If this is a woman driver thing, it’s on Rick Berman’s part and not mine (and I wouldn’t necessarily put that beyond Rick Berman, to be perfectly honest). Ro Laren was at the helm plenty of times without ever crashing the ship. Troi was at the helm twice…and crashed it both times. The difference is that Ro was competent and knew what she was doing. Troi didn’t.

So let me clear that I’m not insulting women nor am I insulting Marina Sirtis, who actually was capable of some very good acting when the writing for her character didn’t suck, most notably in “Face of the Enemy”. I am only insulting Rick Berman, and I will relish in every opportunity to do that for as long as I live.

As I said, Picard took advantage of Troi’s ability to crash the ship. After the events of STAR TREK: GENERATIONS, I always assumed that he must’ve thought, “I’ll keep her onboard in case I ever need to ram the ship into something. I’ll call it Plan Z.” Come STAR TREK: NEMESIS, he actually utilizes Plan Z.

And yes, it would’ve been better to have the best pilot aboard the ship at the helm in GENERATIONS rather than the first officer’s girlfriend.

As I said, her only skill is crashing the ship into other things. I’m including her job as ship’s counselor in that assessment, since she’s a complete and total quack in my opinion.