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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Books Leia Princess of Alderaan by Claudia Gray

Discussion in 'Literature' started by spicer, Apr 14, 2017.

  1. unicorn

    unicorn Chosen One star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2001

    I think Leia's relationship with Kier is important to her character development, and it also explains why she's reluctant to get involved with Han between ANH and ESB (she makes a vow she won't fall in love again until after the war is over). Even though I love Han/Leia, I think it's a positive and healthy experience that before entering this super adult intense relationship with Han, Leia got to have her idealistic first love where she got to go on space dates and Space Prom.

    Thrawn082, I wonder if part of the tendency to kill over author's own characters that don't appear later on is that they don't want an EU author to bring them back and mischaracterize them or ruin their character? I would have preferred if Leia and Kier had just broken up over their ideological differences, but then I could see Claudia Gray being worried that some author in the future would like have Kier survive Alderaan and bring him to cause complications in Han and Leia's marriage later on or something soap opery and stupid like that. Authors get protective of their OCs, understandably so.
     
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  2. littlepadawan91

    littlepadawan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2016
    I finished the book last night
    Do we still need spoiler tags?

    I guess I'll start with the good things first. Breha and Bail were awesome (I wish the book had more Breha though. She was portrayed as an admirable woman but lacked a bit of depth). Leia was so Leia. As much as I love her, I kept feeling profound sympathy for her parents whenever she put herself at risk, which was often lol. But with that said, I appreciate how she - as eager to help as she was - always seemed to understand why her parents were hesitant to involve her in the rebellion, without resentment, whining or throwing tantrums.

    Amilyn Holdo stole the whole goddamn show, period. What a delight. Whenever she showed up I knew I'd enjoy that chapter. You felt like nothing could possibly go wrong when she was around. Yes, she's funny and unique, but she's also so wise. I kept reaching to tap the screen in order to highlight some of her quotes before I remembered I wasn't reading on Kindle.

    Now on to the bad/not so good.
    I wasn't a big fan of the Leia/Kier dynamic because I thought his lowkey personality severely neutralized Leia's fiery one and the result wasn't very interesting to me. But that's only a matter of taste and there was nothing wrong with him as a person, so I just took their relationship for what it was. But the resolution completely soured me on the whole thing. I didn't mind that he died (he had to, or else Leia possibly would). I took issue with the aftermath.

    Are we really supposed to shrug off what he was about to do as not much of a big deal? Are we forgetting that he was present when Tarkin announced to the Senate what had been done to the authorities of Christophisis for going against the Empire? He knew damn well the Organas would be imprisoned, killed or worse. If Leia was a random person or even a mere colleague, I could give him a pass. But his own girlfriend? Fine, he cares more about Alderaan than he cares about her. I can easily acept that. But then don't act like he died trying to protect her like a selfless knight in a shining armor. That surely went out the window real fast when he glimpsed another opportunity to feed her and her family to the wolves. That whole "burying him like a hero" or whatever that was... I sure hope it was just a show they put on for his parents.

    (that's not even getting into how little he knew her if he actually thought she would ever betray the rebellion)

    And a lock of his hair? Really, Leia? How icky and creepy.

    [​IMG]

    Anyway, good book. Not as good as Bloodline though.

     
  3. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2016
    She put his hair in her keepsake box at the end of LPOA and didn't get the keepsake box back until Bloodline, so it still being there has nothing to do with her feelings in the interim.
     
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  4. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    Ah ok, fair enough.
     
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  5. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    It's been like three weeks so sure, let's lift the spoiler tag requirement.


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
     
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  6. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    I had this feelings too to Casterfo. It's the second time Gray show us a "charming" male character that made weird stuff and became too close to Leia
     
  7. Shadowrain10

    Shadowrain10 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 12, 2017
    I was a little shocked when Kier died, but I knew that he had to die either way since Alderaan get's blown up. I felt like their relationship was more young love than anything and that if they took the time to really get to know each other they would see that maybe they don't have as much in common as they thought. I loved Breha in this book, I could really feel the mother-daughter love between her and Leia, and I won't lie that I didn't tear up at the mother-father moments between her and Bail. Also, am I the only one who thinks that Leia might have used the Force to save both her and Kier from the ditch?

    Also, that dinner scene with Tarkin. That had me laughing so hard. I felt like it really showed how well the Rebellion leaders can think on their feet, as well as just trying to picture Bail and Breha's relationship not being perfect was hilarious. I felt like having Leia cry during that scene only for it to be revealed that she was faking it was an excellent touch.
     
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  8. coervus

    coervus Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 31, 2017
    It always breaks my heart that those keepsakes were returned to her wrapped up in a scandal about her biological father. I'd bet anything that when she saw the lock of hair again she imagined what Kier would have to say about that. I also think she would ultimately not regret what happened to him because of both how the Rebellion turned out and her life with Han, not to say that this would be easy for her to admit to herself. Perhaps even reflecting on Kier's misguided pacifism became one of the factors contributing to her founding the Resistance.
     
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  9. littlepadawan91

    littlepadawan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2016
    Apples and oranges, to be honest.

    Casterfo and Kier have opposing trajectories. Casterfo's dubious morality is never sugarcoated and it's explored throughout Bloodline and he tries to make amends by the end. He and Leia were reluctant allies at best for most of the book and he never directly endangers her life. Kier was this sweet boy who secretly (unicorn he had no way to know Leia was gonna lead him to eavesdrop on the banquet that first night, but he probably figured out a way to record their future conversations about the rebellion. The book does say "he recorded it all") latched onto a plan that was gonna lead to fatal repercussions for people he supposedly really cared about and the book ends on an ambiguous note as to whether or not he's supposed to be a hero (which is my main beef with the whole thing)
     
  10. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    He's not a hero. He never was.
     
  11. Outsourced

    Outsourced Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    That's kind of what I like about the ending, actually.

    Kier was misguided. He was going to sell out his love's parents to the tyrannical empire and destroy the Rebellion. But he did it for his people, and, ultimately, for Leia. Bail and Kier are really interesting mirrors. They both want what is best for Leia, and they both think she'll be spared if the Empire comes calling, even if that is unfounded. That's why the ending is left so ambiguous. No, he's not a hero. But he's not a villain either. He was a boy trying to do what was right despite his own well being and those most important to him. It's a rebellious spirit tainted by fear.
     
  12. unicorn

    unicorn Chosen One star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2001
    He was also only 16, so I can see how he would have been naive enough to think that Tarkin would agree to a deal that Alderaan and the Organas would be saved in exchange for the Rebellion being destroyed. We know from ANH Tarkin would never honour that deal, but he's a 16 year old who's lived in an ivory tower most of his life, he can be forgiven for being naive.
     
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  13. The_Forgotten_Jedi

    The_Forgotten_Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 12, 2010
    Not to mention that, from Kier's point of view, Leia put him in a near impossible situation. She thought that Kier would be on the Rebellion's side no matter what and so, despite knowing how dangerous it would be for him, revealed almost everything to him with practically zero warning. If it were me in that position, I know I would feel at least some resentment for being put into this situation.
     
  14. JediBatman

    JediBatman Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 3, 2015
    I understand the fear that Lucasfilm is unnecessarily killing off characters (not just Kier, but I saw a surprising number of Panaka fans in the youtube comments). But I think in both cases their deaths served the story.

    Other than TPM, the cut scene in TEGTW, and a few mentions, Panaka hadn't really been used much. But by his inclusion (and death) in this novel, he:
    • Provided tension in that tense "the audience knows but Leia doesn't" conversation, and we see how close the whole Rebellion was to falling apart
    • When he's assassinated at the hands of Saw Gerrara, Leia gets a valuable lesson that some Imperials are well intentioned and some Rebels are *** holes
    Sure, Leia's relationship with Kier could have ended some other way. But the several layers of tragedy made it much more dramatic:
    • Kier zoomed off to Paucris, half cocked without a plan, to rescue a Princess. But while that sort of story usually has a happy ending in Star Wars, this time it resulted in his death. And not a glorious death in combat either, he got too close to the station that was about to self destruct. He died to a preventable accident.
    • There's of course the sense of betrayal Leia must have felt
    • The running theme that "The Rebellion/Empire forces us to become liars", pays off when Leia's last words to Kier are a lie.
    • In some ways, Kier was right. On the one hand, one could consider his actions as selfish. While he seemed sympathetic to the rest of the galaxy, he put Alderaan first and wanted it to remain an island of peace in comfort in a dark galaxy, while the Organas couldn't just sit by and let whole planets suffer. But he was ultimately right that the royal family's actions endangered their world and their people. I'm not saying he was right. I'm saying Leia probably had some agonizing sleepless nights replaying those conversations in her head, wondering if she could have saved Alderaan.
     
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  15. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Also it means that Saw, though he is awful, saved the Rebellion.


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
     
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  16. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2016
    But did he save the dream?
     
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  17. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    What about Hobbie? His fate has canonically been changed to killed at Hoth in the new 'On the Front Lines' books. Lucasfilm can't claim his character has no story potential because we know he was a big part of the X-Wing/Rogue Squadron sub-franchise in Legends. This death (along with novelizing Dark Disciple instead of Siege of Mandalore of all TCW unproduced scripts to finish) is what pushed me into the 'LFL is killing characters unnecessarily' camp.
     
  18. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    I don't like HOW Panaka was used, and didn't find it believable. That's my issue with it. Also if it was just Kier, then it wouldn't really be an issue. But he's just the latest in a pattern when it comes to this issue, and it's a pattern that makes me concerned for the future potentially.
     
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  19. littlepadawan91

    littlepadawan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2016
    Found on tumblr:

    Is this not what happened?? [face_rofl]
     
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  20. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    Well, Padme was 14 when she became a queen. Maybe just he isn't my type of character but I think he's old enough to notice some things
     
  21. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Some people are just more ahead of others, it's where you get idea of someone being an 'old soul' from.
     
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  22. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    I'm not honestly sure Padme was even as mature as hyped up to be to be queen of a whole planet at 14. The Legends Darth Plagueis novel strongly implies Palpatine pulled strings to get her the job as part of a very long game he's playing to get himself the Chancellor job.
     
  23. littlepadawan91

    littlepadawan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2016
    He didn't have to "notice" anything. The consequences of a rebellion being discovered by the Empire were spelled out right before his very eyes.

    Ah, but you see... to me Kier usually came across as an older mentor, dropping pearls of wisdom that made Leia realize things about herself.
     
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  24. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Yeah, which also crops up - skill in one area doesn't transfer to another, so Kier can be ahead in one respect, while Leia is ahead on a different strand, which both keeps their relationship more equal and interesting.
     
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  25. Outsourced

    Outsourced Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    Is it possible that the author just thought killing the character would be best for the story? Does everything have to lead into a "Disney is bad" discussion?