Saga Leia remembering Padme?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by RyanForder, Mar 6, 2014.

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  1. Jango_Fett21 Force Ghost

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    Apr 9, 2002
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    The degree to which some people are willing to ignore or distort actual Canonical facts or information to try and offer up evidence supporting a particular viewpoint is quite astounding.
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  2. Oberst Hans Landa Jedi Grand Master

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  3. DanielUK Jedi Grand Master

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    Given what we now know...

    She is Force sensitive. Luke tells Leia she is just a powerful as him ("the Force is strong in my family" line) and there were several hints in RoTJ of her being sensitive - on the Shuttle, she is able to sense Vader, like Luke.

    But, yes, I know it was originally written as Padme living for a period after RoTS and that's why Leia remembers.
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  4. Garrett Atkins Jedi Grand Master

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    Why did you quote my post if you didn't need to...
  5. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

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    That's the thing, Anakin doesn't know what it is that kills her. Only that she will die and thus he must take steps to keep it from happening. The irony being that his efforts to save her wound up resulting in her death. BTW, women can and have died in childbirth, in the real world.


    The opera was already there long before the PT and he still managed to make a near seamless transition.

    So Yoda was just blowing smoke up Luke's ass when he said as a Jedi, he can see the past? The past doesn't have to be when Padme died. There was 27 years of life that she lived and on more the one occasion, she was both kind and sad. Feeling feelings? Uh, hello, Anakin said he could fee his mother was in pain. And do we not see Anakin's point of view when he's seeing Padme dying? He sees her twice, hears a child crying, sees and hears Obi-wan talk to her. The same way Anakin saw those things is the same way Luke saw what was happening to Han and Leia, and what Leia herself saw with Padme. Unless you think Anakin's been hanging out with Hunter S. Thompson.



    There was nothing showing the Jedi or the Sith communicating via a telepathic call in any of the films, except to each other. Palpatine can sense Vader is in danger.
    Last edited by darth-sinister, Mar 11, 2014
  6. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Other Saga Moderator

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    Isn't the mind trick a form of telepathy?
  7. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

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    It's mind manipulation through the weak minded.
  8. The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost

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    Leia probably had the same sort of waking vision Luke had in ESB. Why would Leia refer to them as visions if she didn't know she was Force-sensitive? She thought they were memories because what else would they be?
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  9. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Other Saga Moderator

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    So... a form of telepathy (mind to mind communication). If someone is weak-minded, you can control them/suggest to them. If they're not weak-minded, or if controlling them is not your goal, you can simply communicate information to them.
  10. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    Anakin doesn't know what it is that kills her, but seems to think it could be childbirth...so why the hell didn't he take logical steps to prevent that from happening? Talk to her medical droid (who is probably not going to blab to the Jedi Council because really, droids don't give a **** who is fathering Senators' babies), make sure that she has access to the best medical care, hell, make sure that the medical center has a plentiful supply of her blood type on hand just in case (which my doctors did during my first pregnancy, which had complications).

    Locking her in the hospital and telling Typho not to let her out until the baby (babies) were safely delivered would be a better option than killing innocent people based on an empty promise. So would, well, pretty much anything.

    Maybe you all enjoy watching characters behave like dumbasses but I don't.

    Of course women can die in childbirth, but none of them would have been saved by their spouses murdering a room full of kids.

    And there was no seamless transition. This thread and those like it are proof. If the transition were seamless, nobody would ask why Leia remembers her mother.
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  11. Lord Miggler Jedi Master

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    That's telepathy
  12. Samuel Vimes Jedi Grand Master

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    Luke was totally aware that they were visions. Anakin had dreams about his mother.
    In both cases the person that got the visions/dreams knew they were that, dreams/visions and not memories.
    Leia is asked about her memories and she answers what she can remember. Not what she saw in dreams/visions.

    Bye for now.
    Blackboard Monitor
  13. Samuel Vimes Jedi Grand Master

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    Again, the ability to see the past in a vision is NOT the same as having memories implanted in you of events that you never experienced or things you never did.
    Looking at a photo is seeing the past. I have looked at a photo of my great grand father but that haven't given me any childhood memories of my great grand father because he died before I was born. The memory I have is of me looking at the photo.

    Leia says that her mother was kind and in that context it means kind TO her. That requires Leia to actually be present in order for her mother to be kind to her.
    And if Leia has visions of Padme's life when she was ten years old, what would she make of that?
    That her mother got pregnant when she was that young? Some have argued that Leia knows Padme's name and her life. If so then she would know when her mother died, at her own birth.
    That would make her totally confused about any "memories" she thinks she has because she knows she shouln't have any. Also she wouldn't say "When I was young" instead she would say "When I was born."

    Anakin and Luke could feel in part what was happening to those in their visions and Luke was able to see where they were. But neither of them took their visions to be memories of the past, they knew that they were dreams/visions. And again, Shmi, Padme, Han and Leia were very important to Anakin/Luke and they knew them well. Leia doesn't know Padme nor does she seem an important figure in her life. Luke was interested in his father but that was not near enough to get any kind of visions about him. Also both Anakin and Luke are aware that they are not present in the visions that they have. Leia is talking about her memories of her mother. That would sort of require her to be present during those memories otherwise they aren't her memories.

    Also, if the Force works this way, then Yoda and Obi-Wan are kind of wasting their time in trying to keep the thruth from Luke as he can at any time get a vision showing Vader as his father. And secrecy also becomes a bit meaningless since Anakin/Palpatine can have a vision of the birth of the twins and know that they are alive and they can even see where they are. But that doesn't happen nor does it seem a concern to Yoda and Obi-Wan. Which indicate that the Force doesn't work this way.
    Force users can have visions of people they know well or that are important to them. But mostly those seem to be triggered by events that is happening to them or that will soon happen.
    neither of which applies to Leia and Padme.

    [/QUOTE]

    By this logic, since we never see female Jedi use the mind trick in the films then they can't do it?
    We never se a female Jedi fall to the Dark side so does that mean they never do?
    Luke sensed Han was in pain and Han isn't a Force user. Anakin sensed that Shmi was in pain and she isn't a Force user either.
    In the arena, Anakin seems to use the Force to calm one of the beasts down and it seems to be some contact between minds there. Jedi and Sith can sense emotions from Force users and non-Force users. Vader can "read" Luke's mind, is that ONLY because Luke is Force sensitive?

    You imply a limitation without foundation. Mind to mind contact is possible, the films show this.
    At no point is it established that this is ONLY possible between Force Users.
    What is the reason for this? A Force user can affect the minds of non-Force users, why would it be impossible for them to speak in those minds?
    If a Jedi is doing the mind trick is that impossible to do with anyone that can't hear? Is it impossible if the Jedi doesn't speak the language of the other?

    Buy for now.
    The Guarding Dark.
  14. Firmus Jagdon Jedi Master

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    Nov 7, 2013
    star 1

    Sorry. Didnt go down far enough.
  15. Cryogenic Force Ghost

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    It's more elemental than that. He sees her death to be an inevitable fact of the universe. He craves more power as his fears overtake him, believing that he can, through metaphysical alchemy, openly challenge the weave of life, and "make things the way we (or he) wants them to be". He was, after all, given to believe he was the "Chosen One".

    That's quite presumptuous on your part, no? The PT has much in common with the tragic form. ROTS is basically "Greek tragedy in space". Obsessive thinking tends to cloud rational judgement, to say the least. That, and in Star Wars, there's the Force and its all-consuming Dark Side. Characters are blindsided and overtaken by a haze of delusion and doubt. That they might act a little bit dumb kinda goes with the territory.
  16. Firmus Jagdon Jedi Master

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    star 1

    Anakin couldn't tell the future, because as Yoda tells us, "hard to see, always in motion."
  17. Firmus Jagdon Jedi Master

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    Nov 7, 2013
    star 1
    Doesn't matter. It still works and is basis for my explanation.... :) It's enough and don't compare marvel comics to space fantasy... two different worlds that have nothing to do with the other.
  18. Firmus Jagdon Jedi Master

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    Nov 7, 2013
    star 1
    Fine accept it. Get pissed off and hate it. My explanation works for me. I don;t like to pick my Star Wars to pieces.
  19. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

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    It's persuasion rather than telepathy. In this case it is persuading them to do what you want. It isn't a telepathic type communication like Luke and Leia did.


    In case you forgot, there was nothing medically wrong with Padme, yet she died anyway. There was nothing medical science could do to stop her from dying. The Force was the only solution. That's what Anakin took away from his vision and as he said three years ago, he would do whatever it took to stop people from dying. Even becoming strong enough in the Force to achieve his goals.

    Except it was the only way to become strong enough with the dark side. Fear, anger and hatred are what strengthens one's connection to the Force and thus to the dark side. Vader and Sidious both told Luke that he had to use his negative emotions if he wanted to be strong enough to save his friends, and twice in ROTJ, Luke used the dark side to kick his father's ass. His connection to the Force intensified because of it, just as Yoda warned him it would. And when Anakin killed the Tusken Raiders, he did so because of his anger and hatred fueling his actions. He killed at least a hundred of them. He was like a demon possessed. When Anakin killed those in the Temple, Palpatine asked him if he felt stronger now than he did before and Anakin said that he did. He was injured by Obi-wan because his anger fueled his power and his power made him arrogant. Palpatine fought Mace and the Jedi Posse by unleashing the full torrent of his power from his anger and hate. Yoda took a beating because of that. Look at how easily Palpatine was chucking Senate pods at Yoda. That is the power of the dark side. The power to cheat death.
    Which has been answered a dozen times.
    Anakin in AOTC and ROTS knew those were visions of the future. In TPM, he thought it was a dream. Leia, on other hand, doesn't know where her memories are coming from. Whether in dreams or just cognitive flashes like we saw in ROTS, when Anakin was just sitting in Padme's apartment and had one hit him.

    You don't have a mystical power that allows you to see the past, the future and the dead. Leia doesn't know that she's a Jedi and that what she thinks are memories is instead a vision of the past. It's not that difficult to grasp.
    A Jedi can sense emotions. They can see and feel pain, joy, fear, and anger.
    Memories, because she doesn't know the truth about herself. Only with time and training will she learn and understand
    Not if Bail didn't tell her everything.

    Padme mattered to Leia in some form, which is why she has those visions. The Sith didn't have them because they just didn't have a vision of the future regarding the twins.
    Last edited by darth-sinister, Mar 12, 2014
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  20. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    Exactly. There was nothing medically wrong with Padme. And if Anakin had done as I suggested and used his brain, she would have never died.
  21. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

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    You're still missing it. What if she went into labor and died regardless of what medical science has to offer to save her? There he'd be up **** creek without a paddle. That's what Anakin feared the most. That there was nothing that could be done unless he used the Force.
  22. Garrett Atkins Jedi Grand Master

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    Feb 11, 2013
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    I doubt that would happen in a galaxy where ships can travel to lighspeed and robotic suits can sustain an person who was burnt to a crisp on a lava planet.
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  23. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

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    Uh, that's exactly what happened. She died of a broken heart which medical science couldn't cure.
  24. MOC Yak Face Moderator, Classic Trilogy

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    Fixed.
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  25. Garrett Atkins Jedi Grand Master

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    Poor Padme.
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