Saga Leia remembering Padme?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by RyanForder, Mar 6, 2014.

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  1. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

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    The point is that what Anakin saw came true, he just had no clue that he was the cause of it. That's why he flips his **** when Palpatine tells him that she died and it was his fault.
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  2. Garrett Atkins Jedi Knight

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    In other words...
    Anakin being dumb.
  3. anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of CT, SW Saga and Lucasfilm Ltd

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    And the broken heart was caused by Anakin's stupidity.
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  4. Samnz Jedi Master

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    Exactly. That's the entire point. Someone trying too much to evade the devil leads them directly into the devil's arms. Some peope just won't accept that, even though their own argumentation is totally inconsistent, randomly jumping from one point to another.

    At first they always whine about Anakin believing in his visions, although the accuracy of Force visions is excessively made clear in the Star Wars films. Anakin's first vision comes true, Luke believes in his vision, not even the Jedi questioned Force visions at the time. Anakin's second visions also came true, completely blewing their argumentions ("how could he believe in his vision ?!?!?!?!").

    If you point that out, though, their argumentations suddenly changes, out of the blue sky whining about Anakin's misguided decisions following these visions (which is a whole nother story). As if bad guys have never acted stupidly...Tarkin not leaving the DS, Vader constantly undererstimating Luke, the Emperor idioticly allowing himself to be thrown into the reactor shaft...the pinnacle of intelligence, right?

    Evil people acting stupidly is the key to almost every story told on film. Becaus being bad (evil) is bad. And you know what?
    People are not "born" or "created" as bad or evil, they start becoming evil by making their first evil decisions. That's what Anakin did in ROTS.

    We are supposed to talk about Leia's memories, by the way.
    Last edited by Samnz, Mar 12, 2014
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  5. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

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    That's the point. He couldn't know for certain what was what, which is what Yoda tried to warn him about. But because of what happened and because of his own feelings, he did what he did. The same way that Luke did what he did. He didn't know what was going on, because he could see was what was in his head and reacted based on his emotions. That's why the Jedi forbade attachments and emotional connections. Anakin was not the first and certainly not the last to do what he did.
  6. MOC Yak Face Manager Emeritus

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    Tarkin and the Emperor were more over-confident than out-and-out stupid.

    In the OT we're told that the future is always in motion, are we not? A vision is a possible scenario, not a certainty. Anakin has had previous visions come to fruition, so it's understandable that he would be terrified by further visions involving Padme.

    Anakin is led to believe that he can save Padme from the fate portrayed in the visions by some mysterious power offered by the dark side. However, when push comes to shove, he's told straight up that this power isn't actually available, but that at some point, ya know, maybe together we can identify it. It's at that point that he moves from understandable anxiety to utter stupidity.
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  7. anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of CT, SW Saga and Lucasfilm Ltd

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    So why is it such a problem to call out Anakin for acting stupidly, and indicate a lack of enjoyment of the story due to both his and Padme's acting stupidly, when he did in fact act stupidly?
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  8. DRush76 Jedi Master

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    Are you one of those who want the leading characters to always make the right choice and who always know the right answer or who always find the right answer? Is that your idea of well written characterization?o_O
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  9. Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost

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    This is not fundamentally different from Vader's belief that working in concert with a turned Luke would help him achieve the ability to heal himself. We've seen another example of this kind of thing, in the form of a Force ritual requiring the participation of two Sith, in the recently-released episodes of TCW.
  10. anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of CT, SW Saga and Lucasfilm Ltd

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    No, I want my leading characters to behave in ways that don't leave me wanting to go through the screen and choke them for being ****ing morons.

    Because it's no fun for me to feel that way when I'm watching a movie.

    I'm fine with flawed characters, in fact I welcome them, but I still need them to be sympathetic. And I can't sympathize with characters who don't even try to use common sense.
  11. MOC Yak Face Manager Emeritus

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    Perhaps. I don't recall that taking place in the films. Can you enlighten me?
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  12. Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost

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    According to Pablo, TCW is canon.
  13. MOC Yak Face Manager Emeritus

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    That's cool. Who's Pablo?

    I'm not being facetious by the way. These things are just unfamiliar to me. :)
    Last edited by MOC Yak Face, Mar 12, 2014
  14. scooper121s Jedi Youngling

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    Mar 4, 2014
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    Probably through the force, and who says he didn't remember anything about his mother, at least subconsciously, remember how he was adamant Vader still had good inside him? Remember what Padme said right at the end :)
  15. DRush76 Jedi Master

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    Oh, I see. You want the leading characters to be ideal. Don't become a writer.
  16. anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of CT, SW Saga and Lucasfilm Ltd

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    You really see no line between "ideal" and "dumber than ****"? Pretty much everyone I know falls somewhere on the very wide spectrum in the middle.

    As should characters. Every writer whose work I enjoy, writes characters that are imperfect but not completely ****ing annoying and stupid.

    Hell, George Lucas is certainly capable of this. Luke and Han were imperfect, so was Obi-Wan, just to name a few. But they were enjoyable to watch.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Mar 12, 2014
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  17. Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost

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  18. PiettsHat Jedi Grand Master

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    Eh…different strokes for different folks.

    I love Luke and Obi-Wan but don't care much at all for Han. Anakin and Padmé are among my favorite characters though.

    They're great, in my opinion, because Lucas does a lot more to build up their backstories and we see the people and events that shaped them, which helps put their actions in a broader and more interesting context.
  19. anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of CT, SW Saga and Lucasfilm Ltd

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    I love a good back story, but I don't necessarily need it to enjoy a character.

    The point that I was disputing was that I apparently want characters to be "ideal" since I have a low tolerance for two hours of nothing but sheer stupidity from a character. There is a galaxy wide chasm between "ideal" and either Anakin or Padme in ROTS.
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  20. PiettsHat Jedi Grand Master

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    I wouldn't say that Anakin was stupid though -- he knew the consequences of his actions, he just tried to rationalize them. It wasn't a lack of intelligence that made him make the decisions he made, but a lack of emotional strength and moral toughness. He's not willing to sacrifice to do the right thing, so he tells himself that he's ending the war and will create a peaceful empire as justification for his lust for power and control.

    Padmé, meanwhile, doesn't have as big of a role in this film, but the choices she does make are the result of human frailty and trying to protect the people she loves. Honestly, though, the sad truth is that she has little power left in the film, with Palpatine rendering her position of Senator basically obsolete and Anakin refusing to listen to her.
  21. Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus

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