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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit Leland Chee reveals the main reason for the reboot!

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Hamburger_Time, Jan 17, 2018.

  1. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    No but I've heard the comedy of (massive spoilers for Rebels episodes 'Wolves and a Door' and 'World between Worlds')
    Ahsoka the Time Traveler
    The EU already covered this with Anakin Solo's ghost saying how him being enshrined was too much for him (or anyone) to handle, and warning Ben Skywalker not to let the same happen to him.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
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  2. Coherent Axe

    Coherent Axe Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Yeah, that's the whole problem the sequels faced with Luke anyway; it's necessarily a story about the new generation, but foregrounding Luke too much takes away from their story, if he's able to solve any problem the new heroes might face. Hence him being backgrounded in TFA -- and it's the same line of thinking that killed off Obi-Wan in ANH anyway; having a Jedi Master hanging around when a Force-sensitive is needed to destroy the Death Star spoils Luke's story. Once these characters come into their power, they need to be shuffled out of the story.

    Good, so there's already precedent for the idea.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
  3. Outsourced

    Outsourced Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    We're watching movies about space wizards flying WWII fighter jets.

    I don't care about realism, and i'm not giving Legends or the NeU points for being more "realistic". I just want stories I like with characters I like, and i've gotten them in both places. It's ridiculous that people feel this need to gripe about one or the other for reasons that, let's be real here, are mostly arbitrary and meaningless.

    Just consume the content you want. It isn't worth this.
     
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  4. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Pablo Hidalgo ‏@pablohidalgo
    Some of it is in the Art of Book. Skyler. Thea. Darth Talon. Felucia.
    Pablo Hidalgo ‏@pablohidalgo
    One evolved into Rey. The other into Finn.
     
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  5. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

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    Aug 22, 2005
    You don't need to completely destroy a powerful character from the original work to power up the hero in the sequel. Gandalf being carried into LOTR from the Hobbit handled this well. He was still powerful, but didn't overshadow Frodo and there was no need to make Gandalf go into exile or whatever. Tolkien brought Saruman into play to show Gandalf was not all-powerful, brought in a balrog, etc. He didn't just have Gandalf run off.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
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  6. Coherent Axe

    Coherent Axe Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 20, 2016
    Ehh, I'd argue Tolkien did exactly that by having Gandalf run off on his various mysterious missions, so that he wasn't around to help the Fellowship at times when, y'know, they really could've done with a wizard to help them out. And then Tolkien killed him off and brought him back largely as a spiritual guide, just like Obi-Wan and presumably Luke in IX.
     
  7. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Good point, but it all felt in character. It's not like Gandalf was hiding on a mountain refusing to joint the good fight because he found out Saruman and the blue wizards were traitors, or something.

    You could even take the analogy further and speculate if Frodo was just a bad hobbit who stabbed Bilbo to death with Sting and decided to become Sauron's right hand man (or Hobbit).
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
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  8. Outsourced

    Outsourced Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 10, 2017
    It's almost like Luke and Gandalf are different characters with different background and different lives and different personalities.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
  9. Coherent Axe

    Coherent Axe Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 20, 2016
    ...what.
     
  10. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

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    Aug 22, 2005
    The characters are whatever the writer wants them to be. That's why EU Luke and Canon Luke are even more different.
    The thing is, how does a writer maintain the illusion that this is a real person. It's a tricky balance. That's why Anakin needed to have issues in 1 and 2 to become Vader in 3, rather than him be perfectly fine in 1 and 2 and one day go bad.
    I was having fun. Bilbo is Han, Gandalf is Luke, Frodo is Kylo, Snoke is Sauron. Then we rewrite LOTR in the SW ST style. ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
  11. Coherent Axe

    Coherent Axe Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 20, 2016
    Yes, because Anakin in the prequels is a great example of a character written to feel like a real person.

    :/
     
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  12. Outsourced

    Outsourced Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 10, 2017
    ...Partly because those characters went through different things post-Endor and thus took different paths.
     
  13. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

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    Aug 22, 2005
    Some of those differences predate Endor though. We're seeing that in the Marvel comics. I think Solo movie will make Han even more different than EU Han.

    It's like the many Batman adapatations. They all went through their parents being killed, but Adam West's Batman is at the core very different from Ben Affleck's.

    Bale will let Ra's al Ghul die, but many other Batmen would definitely save him. This is the difference between canon Luke and EU Luke, in a way. There's no divergence point that made them different, they were always different characters who just happened to have a few set events happen exactly the same.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
  14. Coherent Axe

    Coherent Axe Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 20, 2016
    There doesn't need to be a divergence point. They're just different interpretations written by different people. So was the EU; every depiction of Luke in Legends is just an interpretation, because none of it was written or overseen by Luke's creator.
     
  15. ChrisLyne

    ChrisLyne Force Ghost star 4

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    Oct 29, 2002
    A big difference as well is that ST Luke plays a supporting, mentor, role. EU Luke was never really allowed to do this. NJO was designed in part to pass the sword (and you could make a good argument that it does this better than the ST in many ways) but then that was promptly undone. At the least the big 3 remained co-protagonists, at worst they were the protagonists and the next generation, who should have taken the focus, were relegated to supporting roles.

    As a mentor character Luke can't be the big hero of the ST (no matter how much I would love that). His role in this story was to pass on the mantle, something the EU never really allowed him to do. For that story to work you can't have God like Luke because then there's no threat, Luke can solve any problem and there's no need for the next generation of heroes to rise.
     
  16. jamminjedi23

    jamminjedi23 Jedi Master star 5

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    Feb 19, 2015
    The EU pretty much had to keep the movie characters in the spotlight because they were a lot more marketable than the totally original characters that the EU created. If the EU tried to rely on Jaina and the other next generation characters to drive the story forward the novels probably would have sold about half as well as they would have with movie characters in the starring role.

    The movies now can afford to cast the big three aside because there will be enough people still willing to go see them to keep the train rolling. Not so when you go into the niche novel audience.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
  17. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    I always did feel a lot of the reason the big three were kept in the spot line was for marketability.

    However-people that actually bought and read EU novels would know who Jaina was for example.

    Del Rey's logic was more if some kid in Barnes and Nobles picks up one of these books he needs to see Luke on the cover to buy it. Not an EU character he has never heard of and has no emotional investment in.
     
  18. jamminjedi23

    jamminjedi23 Jedi Master star 5

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    Feb 19, 2015
    Right. And it's the same way now. Everyone who read the original Vader Marvel series knows who the character Aphra is and many consider the current Aphra series to be one of the best Marvel has done. Yet you look at the sales charts and the Aphra series sells about half as much each month as the series that are about Vader or the big 3.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
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  19. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    So the logic is from Del Rey or Marvel is more "we have niche readers and we can count on them to always buy the stuff, but we need to gain new readers and for that we need familiarity"

    That was always a problem with the old eu-people asking "where to start" "what to read first"

    It was so vast that casual fans often struggled to get into it-and it was understandable. It's hard catching up with over twenty years of books.
     
  20. jamminjedi23

    jamminjedi23 Jedi Master star 5

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    Feb 19, 2015
    I think a big reason why Dark Horse was really a go getter in terms of having a lot of non movie characters or storylines was because they never had real high sales expectations. The true die hards that would pretty much pick up anything Star Wars related could cover their sales expectations. Marvel seems to have opened up a slot for one experimental series at a time. First it was the Kanan ongoing and now the Aphra series.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
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  21. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    "never had real high sales expectations" = "willing to take chances".

    If that's what it took to get things like Knights of the Old Republic or Agent of the Empire, I'm not really sad about it.

    I'm not sure what's really 'experimental' about those spin-off comics - that's pretty much par for the course for Marvel in general, and Aphra was obviously always slated for her own comic - it's rather obvious that's why the character was created in the first place.
     
  22. Xander Vos

    Xander Vos Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 3, 2013
    X-Wing novels did ok.
     
  23. jamminjedi23

    jamminjedi23 Jedi Master star 5

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    Feb 19, 2015
    No they actually intended to kill Aphra off for quite a while during the Vader comic. Then Gillen came up with a way that they could save her
    https://www.newsarama.com/38795-mar...nto-through-a-new-hope-and-force-awakens.html

    My guess is that they were originally planning on doing a series following the Rogue One survivors. Then after finding out none of them survived they needed a different idea.
     
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  24. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Oh my... one of the goals in that article is to "tell a story that feels like you're watching a new movie " [face_laugh]
    Sorry, guys, that boat sailed.
    As far as Aphra, 'figured out a way to save her' tells me that, yes, the plan was to make her a breakout character as soon as kanan tanked.
     
  25. jamminjedi23

    jamminjedi23 Jedi Master star 5

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    Feb 19, 2015
    Kanan didn't tank though. The single issues were still selling around 40k when they chose to end the series. And the Poe series took the place of Kanan. Aphra took the place of the original Vader series.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018