Beyond Lest Ye Be Judged--Vader war crimes trial--Voted Best All-Around, thanks!

Discussion in 'Fan Fiction- Before, Saga, and Beyond' started by DarthIshtar, Jun 18, 2005.

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  1. Juliet316 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2005
    star 7
    :_| :_| :_|


    Beautifully bittersweet ending.
  2. ShrunkenJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2003
    star 5
    Awww :( :_| It's over!


    [:D]

    I *think* I get the Force-prompt, at least I hope I do... if it hadn't been Leia there, she wouldn't have shared those memories with him and vice-versa (love them... just memories that show how she's gotten past seeing him as a monster, and how he sees her, but they definitely needed to be shared!) and she wouldn't directly feel him becoming 'free' as you said either. Definitely a big theme in this last post, freedom, and yes... he was always a slave, either literally, or to the idea of the 'Chosen One', or to Palpatine and the Dark Side, and in this fic as a prisoner. So it's very fitting for the theme of this last chapter, and that wonderful epitaph. Love the Corellian life-talking ceremony, too!

    Thank you, Ish, for those wonderful.... 364150 words :p

    =D= @};- =D= @};- =D= @};-
  3. DarthIshtar Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 9
    ACKNOWLEDGMENTS

    First and foremost, a few specific props go to RebelMom, the only reader who showed up for both versions consistently. I always looked forward to her reply.

    To RK_Striker_JK_5 who cheered me on tirelessly.

    To Lt_Jaina_Solo and Noelie who guest-authored.

    To Kevin_Solo for his tireless nit-picking that made me think so hard about certain things that entire storylines emerged and who wrote the most thought-provoking arguments against my arguments that I've ever seen.

    To Palpyisgod2 who wailed and swore and threw things figuratively at me, but still came back for more.

    To Cyke for actually entering the trivia contest. P.S. We have 10 more days before that ends.

    To all my European and South American readers who put it in the perspective of people who have seen post-war consequences first-hand.

    To my military and military-mom readers who argued the validity of philosophies as they applied to modern warfare.

    To all my religious readers who actually put up with me teaching Sunday School lessons in this thread at times.

    To Kateydidnt for rolling her eyes at me, encouraging me, laughing at me, stalling me for three weeks and giving me a high-five when I finished it.

    To SilSolo for her artwork.

    To SpiritofEowyn for the cover art.

    To every person who came into this near the end or read it in a marathon session or who used it as a break from studying for the bar exam.

    To all the readers yet to come.
  4. Fortherea Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2003
    star 1
    Woah, this was a crazy ride! I just looked it up, my first post on this story is from January 24th 2006 - that means this story has been with me during two years of life. What's even crazier is the fact that when I was still in school in 2002 or earlier I started getting into fanfiction and read a story called "Soirée", which became one of my favourite stories. Years later I started reading LYBJ and at some point I realized that the author of Soirée is your real name. In a nutshell: I consider you partially responsible for the skyrocketing progress of my English speaking and writing abilities and the steady success of my studies of English literature at university.
    There you go. Deal with it. [:D]
  5. canadianjedimama Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2008
    star 4
    Oh man, that was simply.....breathtaking. I mean, literally. It took my breath away.

    And it also made me cry.:_|

    Love truly does conquer all, and this wonderful epic has brought that home so many times.

    Kudos on finishing it, I'll certainly miss this. It's made me think so many times....

    =D=

    CJM
  6. RebelMom Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2000
    star 6
    Dang, you got me crying. :_|

    Congratulations on finally finishing your epic. =D=
  7. tamiki Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2005
    It was a very touching ending, beautifully written, it almost made me cry. Your characters are so lifelike, as if they are real people.  The scene with the funeralpyre was very emotionel, even if Padme and the others seemed too dignified and resigned in their grief. Why doesn't anybody raise objections to this heartless and unnecessary execution?
    Nevertheless I admire your courage to write a sad ending. (Sure you regard it otherwise)
    Most fanfics are too sugary. Its rare that authors let their main character die in such an inexorable way, and its somehow refreshing.
     But, because of how the story develops, also very disagreeable.
    In the 1. part Vaders death was almost inevitable and conprehensible, he was descibed rather unpleasant. But then, shades were added, and this part of the story was so moving and mayby the best. Padmes speech to the tribunal was heartbreaking and imploring and there was suddenly hope for the future for both Anakin, his family, and also hope that the galaxy would choose reconciliation, mercy and contribution rather than revenge and eye for an eye justice. But that hope was shattered in the final part, and its almost unbearable. I don't understand the philosophy concerning that Anakin has to die for his crimes. I accept that justice must be done and that Anakin want to atone, but there must be other ways.
    Anakin suddenly wishes to finish his burdens and be "released", but it seems too convenient and is presumably used as an "alibi" for the execution. I missed reasons why the tribunal upheld the death sentence. Is Anakin considered too dangerous to be kept alive because of the strike towards Leia? It was a horrible thing to do, but domestic violence must not carry a death sentence, its far too drastic. I also remember that it was stated that Naboo law only permitted death sentences if the convict was beyond redemption, so that's what the judges think?
    I don't like the way the execution is "softened" by the force-redemption, which declares that Anakin can be forgiven in afterlife, but certainly has to pay in this life. It's  still pitiless, and why is his last time in the prison so humiliating?
    But most depressing is that the message to future criminals in the galaxy will be: It doesn't matter if you show no remorse, or, on the contrary, are cooperating and penitent, you will still be put to death. Maybe you will get some extra months to right some of your wrongs, but don't think you are safe. The slightest mistake and you must die.
  8. Darth_Marrs Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2006
    star 4
    Great ending to a wonderful story, Ish. Very nicely done!
  9. JediNat Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2008
    star 2
    Wow! I'm speechless, what a emotional ending! And Leia forgave him @};- , but he still died, which had me crying. :_|
    [face_peace]
    -JediNat-

  10. Blue_Milkshake Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2005
    star 3
    What a remarkable gift this epic has been for all of us. =D=

    Thanks, Ish!
    @};-@};-@};-
  11. merijune24 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2008
    Ish,

    I reread the older and new versions of this wonderful and sad story. Out of the two, this one seems to be more well developed.
    And..you gave Anakin Skywalker a fitting ending.

    Brava!

    Merijune24
  12. PHGS_Weyr Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 11, 2006
    star 4
    That was... so... i cannot find the words to describe how this last section made me feel, i am both sad and happy, and not just that this monster of a fic is finally finished!

    Great story that i'll probably re-read every so often as it's been on my favourites since i first discovered it!

    Thanks for the extreme AU!

    PHGS Weyr
  13. DarthIshtar Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 9
    LadyLunas--Congrats on catching up. I'd like to say that, yes, I'm glad it's been "one incredible, heart-wrenching journey" because that means I've done my job, but also that I apologize for the heart-wrenching. I would never be able to do what Leia has done, either in the movies or in this fic. I like the description of how she deals with reaching her limits because that's how I see her throughout the OT. And there's definitely a very advanced sense of duty and love. Anakin's path is a slightly optimistic one where he is not tempted to relapse, but he definitely has that weakness, as we saw when he struck Leia. Your observations on him are spot-on. I think his dignity is one thing that is a benefit. Thanks for thinking this spectacular! And thanks for being here to the end. I'll keep Kleenex on hand.

    JediNat--LOL, you don't? I must have been mistaken...

    JediNat--LOL, and there was much rejoicing...

    Kevin_Solo--I stopped in my tracks and hugged her when I found out.

    RK_Striker_JK_5--Of course, first post had to go to either you or Palpyisgod2. Eager beavers and all that... Congrats on finishing. I cried through the entire execution scene, as I suspected I would. I knew that this wouldn't be complete unless everyone had closure of some kind and Leia forgave him in word as well as in deed. Thanks for the applause, the consistent reviews and I'm glad there were so many good moments.

    SilSolo--Thanks. I'm glad it was moving. And he didn't have to die. That was always philosophically up in the air for me and the characters, but made sense in the end.

    Juliet316--Awww, thanks. *hands over tissues*

    ShrunkenJedi--Awww. The Force-prompt is based on the Christian concept of the Holy Ghost. In my 12th-grade theology class, I had to do an essay for my final exam on why the Force was not God and what I would define the Force as. (This was an exam held on the same day that The Phantom Menace came out and the teacher was a SW fan.) I talked about how the Force in its Light Side incarnation inspires to do good, to seek justice and that it is best felt when a person is worthy of it. Therefore the Force-prompt suggested that the Force could inspire her to do something just that was odious. I hope that makes sense. Leia's final interchange with her father is a result of the Force connection, but not the Force's reason for wanting her to do it. Glad you loved the memories. I loved that she did move past the idea of him as a monster and vice versa. I loved the idea of her being able to sense when he was 'free.' It was inspired by ophelia's The First Four Days in which one of the first things Qui-Gon's first Padawan asks when she starts to deal with his death is if there was much pain. That entire scene touched me in that fic. Yes, he was always a slave until that moment and really, that has been the point of this fic. I'm glad it was a fitting ending. I wanted to go into more detail with the Corellian life-talking ceremony, but felt that it would betray the emotional sort of detachment that has become vital to the survival of the family unit in the story. Thanks for loving the 364150 words. :p

    Fortherea--No kidding, for me, too! Wow, two years of your life. You've been around for most of it, then! And oh my gosh, I am shocked that you have such a long association with my stuff--my apologies for you running into Soiree. Some of that story was not very good writing, though I'm proud of some other parts of it. :) Anyway, thanks for the undeserved nutshell! I'm glad I've done some good, somewhat! Now to deal with it...

    canadianjedimama--Aww... I can lend you my inhaler. ;) I'm glad it was that affective for you. It made me cry, too. That's a perfect summary of what it expressed, though it was accomplished in a very unconventional and morally reprehensible way in some aspects. (i.e. The entire debate over capital punishment.) Thanks for the kudos and I'm glad you'll miss it. It flatters me more than I deserve.

    RebelMom--I think I'm wanting to go "awww" mor
  14. SithGirl132 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 6, 2005
    star 4
    It ended so correctly.
    Wow. So much emotion and an amazing characterization for the whole cast. I don't think I've ever read anything this good.
    Blown away would be the best description of my mental state right now, and I think you really did justice to a very unique topic.
    I'm actually crying.
  15. Kevin_Solo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2007
    star 2
    It's over. Congratulations on finally finishing this great epic story, Ish!=D==D==D=[:D]

    Has it felt a little like this description by Winston Churchill?

    ?Writing a book is an adventure. To begin with, it is a toy and an amusement; then it becomes a mistress, and then it becomes a master, and then a tyrant. The last phase is that just as you are about to be reconciled to your servitude, you kill the monster, and fling him out to the public.?

    This story was one of the two that convinced me to join the Jedi Council Forums last year.

    On to the last:_| update. I can certainly see Anakin in this situation:

    Anakin was no longer a physically expressive person. Twenty-four years behind a mask and a year under arrest had virtually eliminated his tendency to reach out with anything but the Force.

    But he's not today, for obvious reasons. I can understand Leia wanting him to be the first to know; but I wanted to know her reasons for agreeing:

    He could see a slight smile on Leia's face, the one that she wore when she recognized a thing's bittersweet flavor. ?I cannot pin the blame on any one thing,? she admitted, ?but I think that I finally agree with your idea of how I can free you.?

    I particularly liked this description of the body language between Anakin and Leia:

    Leia nodded, but did not respond verbally. Instead, she let her fingertips brush his for just a moment, the closest that she could come to squeezing his hand. He extended his fingers to brush her palm. After a long moment, she simply smiled and withdrew her hand. The guard who had been set in place to prevent such a thing apparently recognized that there was nothing dangerous in that simple exchange of empathy and remained motionless.

    Then a hard question:

    ?Will you tell your daughter??

    She blinked in something like surprise?he suspected that she had not expected him to ask such a question, though she had probably considered it many times.

    ?Someday,? Leia murmured after a long moment of silence. ?I hope that she will never have to act against a man that she has loved and hated in equal parts, but I think that she will understand some of that suffering someday. If she ever doubts that I understand the need for unconventional courage, I will make sure that she knows what we asked of each other in this last year.?


    While hard, it's a little useless. Kaiya will find out quite soon who her maternal grandfather was; so Leia will need to tell her all that's happened sooner than she thinks. (I'm not even going to start thinking about how she'll get treated in school, bullies having Anakin as a great (for them) excuse to pick on her.:mad:)

    Again, some good body language and dialogue:

    He leaned forward, easing the pressure on his arms as well as drawing his gaze away from her face. Instead, he clasped his hands in either a pleading or prayerful posture.

    ?I can't remember you demanding something of me,? he countered.

    ?Not demanding, no,? Leia agreed, ?but I asked you do one important thing at the beginning.?

    He recalled perfectly that thing, but it was more important to let her learn this story by heart now. ?What was that?? he asked.

    ?To trust me,? she remembered.

    ?And I have,? he informed her. ?I have not always kept my promise to do so, but I will for the remainder of my life.?


    I can certainly see people not believing at first that Leia was the one who carried out the execution, considering how her father treated her when Darth Vader:

    ?Do you??

    ?What??

    ?Curse me for being her.?

    ?No.?

    ?Do you think that you will ever make it public record??

    ?Probably in a deathbed confession that will be suspect because I'm half out of my mind,? Leia said dryly. ?No one will truly believe that I thought it best to kill you.?

    ?Best,? he echoed. ?Not right??

    ?'Best' is not the most appropriate word for it,? she amended, nodding to him. ?I think that I ha
  16. DarthIshtar Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 9
    SithGirl132--Awww, I'm glad to hear that reaction to it. I'm very glad that the characterization for the whole cast seemed to work out. Thanks so much for liking it and supporting it. It definitely was an unique topic, so I'm glad that it ended to mostly general acclaim. :) *hands over tissue*

    Kevin_Solo--Awww, I'm going to miss these neverending reviews! I hope you continue to turn up elsewhere. :) Thanks for the congratulations and stuff. Yes, that is exactly how it felt. What was the other story? The story that this was inspired by was the one that dragged me over here to the boards. Anakin's expressive sides have definitely been changed by his circumstances in this last year. Leia's reasons for agreeing are never really specified, but they are told in varying detail to various people. Anakin, her family, Han, etc. Glad you liked that description of the body language. It's probably the most subtle gesture that's come between them, but it's one of the more powerful ones. Tough question indeed. Kaiya will definitely find out who the grandfather was, but it's up to everyone to make sure that she understands both sides of him eventually. That's a good point about the potential for bullying. SilSolo's artwork was very helpful in planning the body language and certain emotional aspects. LOL, the bit about people not believing it was a bit of a jab at myself as well as an amusing thing. :) I'm glad the challenging question had an appropriately heartbreaking answer. LOL, I like the whole thing about Leia's pattern. Thanks for finding that next bit to be good and in character. The breaking-of-the-news to Luke and Padme was one of the more difficult parts of this post, both because I do not have a visual imagination and could not really conceptualize the tableau of what this would be like and because of the emotional slam it needed to be. I'm glad it came off as something that could be visualized. Luke's reaction is definitely a byproduct of those years of friendship as you noted. The whole thing with Han trying something in a prison as a challenge was inspired by a conversation in the ROTJ novelization where he's bragging about the places he's broken out of and he mentions a jail, IIRC. Han doesn't really avoid confrontation, but he knows when to not push it at this point. I'm glad you liked the official vs. personal scene with Rieekan. Yes, I still get your message. ;) Yay that you liked Rieekan's response. He's my favorite only-on-screen-for-five-minutes character of all time. :) And I figured I had to wrap up the political stuff at least for now. I have sequel ideas to this, but heaven help me if I ever write them. They involve the real reason for Isard's acquiescence and compromise and what the political/military fallout is. I think Thrawn would recognize that Isard's not going to let it go this easily and he will let them shoot themselves in the foot for a little while so that they're both crippled when he needs them to be. Of course the Force made an appearance--subplot! :p It shouldn't be tried twice, but the Force has its own idea of how well it's been tried in the first place. LOL, the one atheist reader I have doesn't have issues with that. At least not that he's admitted. Glad you liked that bit with Luke. Luke has had more blind faith than any of them really comprehends. He's such a cutie. :p Yeah, Luke wouldn't have anything that could have added to it in a good way. LOL, yes, Anakin and the Department of Child and Welfare Services would get along great. "Thanks for keeping us apprised of the situation, Lord Vader. Now, while we have you here, there are some reports about you and younglings in the Temple? And what happened at Bespin? And a complaint against you from Princess Leia, your daughter...oh, did I mention you owe 24 years of back child support?" That bit about the funerals was one of those things that I really hadn't thought about until I realized it was an appropriate thing to consider. I want to write a story about that. And no, he probably di
  17. Jeditheskyisblue Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2001
    star 4
    The end almost had me crying as well.
  18. DarthIshtar Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 9
    Thanks. Glad it was effective.

    Last call for trivia contest:

    Guys, you've had plenty of time, so next week, I'm closing it. If you want the questions again, ask or look through the last few pages.
  19. ShrunkenJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2003
    star 5
    Lol, I couldn't help reflexively going in here to see what was still going on, and I got to reading your response to Kevin_Solo... It shouldn't be tried twice, but the Force has its own idea of how well it's been tried in the first place. LOL, the one atheist reader I have doesn't have issues with that. At least not that he's admitted.

    You've got more than one Atheist reader, Ish (add me), and I personally have no issues with the use of the Force, including 'trying someone twice for the same crime', which is a U.S. centric notion anyway-- you can't really avoid that the Force is a part of the fictional universe of the GFFA and that it has different rules than mere mortals, even if that rule applies in the New Republic. :p
  20. DarthIshtar Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 9
    LOL. I guess I never took a poll as to who was Catholic, Jewish, Mormon, Lutheran, atheist, agnostic, etc. The rules of the NR in this story were a conglomeration of US law, international war crimes trials and personal philosophy. Still, I maintain that the Force recognized the need of the mortals to have their justice, but recognized that those mortals were very flawed at times. They were biased and prejudiced and no matter what, like Han said, it was better for them to think of Vader as the bad guy.
  21. cibbler Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2006
    star 1
    wozers> it is finished? wow, lol.

    Great way to end whats been one heck of a read..

    There can't be that many sw fanfics of this size out there....
  22. DarthVaderette Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2004
    star 2
    Great story, I really enjoyed it. Thanks for all the update PMs :D
  23. DarthIshtar Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 9
    Contest results: Cyke and RK_Striker_JK_5 have incredibly gotten the same exact score on the trivia contest. They will both get a Darth Vader Was Framed shirt, courtesy of me. :)


    Answers:

    Questions

    Easy

    1) Who is on trial in this fic?
    Darth Vader or Anakin Skywalker

    2) What made Ish rewrite the original Lest Ye Be Judged?
    Seeing ROTS and realizing what could have done better, plus having gone through an abusive relationship and having a new perspective on forgiveness.

    3) Who are the three members of the Tribunal and the two attorneys?
    Rieekan, Khatarn and Ackbar and Leia and Aikia

    4) What held up writing in May of 2007?
    Me going to my older sister's wedding in Virginia.

    5) Who was Mon Mothma's only political opponent in the election after Endor?
    A very confused Ewok child.

    Medium

    6) How did Ish get a concussion?
    Thrown out of a recliner into a brick wall.

    7) Name at least one of the guards from Vader's regular security detail.
    Luke, Varsch, Wedge, etc.

    8) What was Anakin's first daughter's name?
    Sarai

    9) What is the name of the restaurant where Mara takes Luke to make him laugh?
    The Swooning Bantha

    10) Name the three judges in the Force trial.
    Yoda, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan

    Hard

    11) Name the Jedi X-wing pilot that Luke mentioned as one of the people who wanted to testify on Vader's behalf.
    Stacey

    12) What is her significance to Ish?

    Acceptable answers: She's Pink 5 or she's from Ish's favorite fanfilm.
    Complete answer: She was featured in the post written on the same day that an X-wing pilot named Stacy appeared in Timothy Zahn's "Allegiance." Ish has been a fan of Pink 5, a series of films about Stacey the X-wing pilot Valley Girl for a long time and wrote Stacey officially into fanfic with the director's permission long before Timothy Zahn got away with it in profic. (In fact, the director PMed her when he found out to say that there was a new Pink 5 fanfic writer around and not to give Tim Zahn a hard time just because he was a newbie.)

    13) Who are the two guest authors in this fic, who each wrote one scene?
    Noelie and Lt_Jaina_Solo

    14) How did Leia defend the events at Bespin?
    Lando not only allowed slavery at Bespin, but also harbored rebels and allowed them to escape. A garrison to control the rebel activities was a perfectly legal thing to do.

    15) Name two legally-minded readers.
    Kevin_Solo who is a lawyer himself and PrincessLisa who used this fic to relax between study sessions for the bar exam.

    Expert Level

    16) Who are the three readers who Ish knows in real life?
    Noelie, Araxie and RK_Striker_JK_5

    17) What is Ish's inspiration for the image consultant that Leia uses when first Chief of State?
    Edna, from the Incredibles.

    18) What is Aikia's daughter's name?
    Elisa

    19) What has Ish asked her readers to do if she reaches 300,000 words?
    Fly to Utah and slap her.

    20) What is the award that this fic won?
    Best Drama (Summer)

    BONUS: Whose side does Han and Leia's unborn daughter take in their first major fight?
    Han's
  24. DarthIshtar Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 9
    cibbler--I think I'll always be shocked to find that there are still people coming in for the ending. Yes, it's finished. I've finally gotten my energy back (I got bronchitis twice in a month just before and just after I finished), I've started going out in public again and the letters L, Y, B and J don't make me twitch as much as they used to. :) Thanks for thinking it was a great way to end. The longest fic I have ever read in SW was 275,349 words. This was 364,150 and the betaed version will be even longer.

    DarthVaderette--Thanks so much for coming here and enjoying it and making me feel as if it was worth it. And I don't think I'll ever be able to hit another PM button. :)

    Edit: I keep forgetting to put this in.

    http://www.geocities.com/kateydidnt2002

    Here lies the first part of LYBJ, formatted and put into a beautiful PDF that corrects things like bad spacing, a few typos and some downright BAD writing.
  25. DarthIshtar Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 9
    Beta Request: I have one great beta going on and am looking for another, since the person who has had it for two whole months and then some has dropped off the face of the earth and/or is ignoring me--she posts, but never responds to my PMs. Anyone interested?

    Also, thanks for the noms for:
    Best AU
    Best All-Around (Qualified)
    Best Epic
    Best OC Male (Aikia)
    Best Ensemble Cast

    I hope to do you guys proud.
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