Let go.

No, Kenix. I'm saying the thread should end because it really never should have been a "thread" to begin with. It is two people who have a beef against each other, and they should take that to the Private Message arena.

If it were Bib attacking Bubba for his attitude, I would have the same opinion.

 

Artie-Deco,

No, it's not time for this thread to end.

If I got together in a treehouse with my neighborhood friends to play checkers, and some neighborhood kid was there every single hour of every single day at the door of the treehouse to say "You know what, checkers sux". I would say that if someone like Bubba decided to raise community awareness of this issue, - that would be a good thing and I support it.

And it's not just one person.

I just don't understand why people would WANT to spend their time dissing something. One of my non-Star-Wars-fan friends says people do it to get attention.

I think all Bubba is saying is: "Hey, let us enjoy what we enjoy in relative peace".

I am certainly not for censorshipnof any kind. That's why, even on the Rebel Base message boards, a person does not even need to be a member in order to express their opinion. So detractors have been welcome there at any time. None of have come though, and I think that's a tribute to people's civility.

Bubba would like the same treatment when we play checkers 'downtown' here at TF.N as we get 'back home' at the Rebel Base.

It's not wrong for him to ask for that. And, if anything Artie, it's wrong for you to desperately try to shut him up. I know you are trying to say that this is personal between Bubba and one other person. But it isn't. And using that as an excuse to insist that this issue not be discussed is like censors who say because a song contains a certain word it shouldn't be heard.

Bubba is mainly saying, "Hey I know change is painful, and losing something you expected to have is painful, but it's time to move on".

He's right. And it's a heck of nice thing to say to people. It shows he cares. Because as long as people continue harbor some kind of grudge and overflow with negativity, they'll be hurting themselves far more than they hurt any one of us who have happy and positive feelings about the new game.

Bubba just wishes everyone here could be like Luke Skywalker. And that's a GOOD THING for a Star Wars thread.

 

Let me share with you the comments I just sent Bubba in a Private Message:

SW:CCG has been around for 6 years. It is one of the top 5 CCGs of all time, #2 behind Magic. SW:TCG is the unproven upstart. The SW:CCG players have been on this forum for as long as three years now, I guess (I haven't been here as long as some); the SW:TCG players are the usurpers.

You are more than welcome to disagree with Bib. I think your criticism is correct, in general, although I think you read too much into his comments, and you are taking them too personal.

But because Bib has been around for so long, he is not going to care about your opinion of him or his comments. He has been criticized numerous times before, and he's still here.

I'm not "attacking" you. I'm trying to give you some advice.

Why am I not criticizing Bib? Because it will do no good, and it is unnecessary.

Look, maybe you don't understand your position and the position of SW:TCG here. SW:CCG is on the way out. SW:TCG is on the way in. Eventually, the SW:CCG discussion on this board will dry up, wither away and die. The SW:TCG discussion here will continue to grow and thrive. This is a time of a transition of power from SW:CCG to SW:TCG.

Consciously or unconsciously, Bib knows this. And he is frustrated by that. So he is lashing out. Criticizing him just adds fuel to the fire.

I'm not "desperately trying to shut him up." I'm trying to keep him from wasting his time.

You say:

Bubba is mainly saying, "Hey I know change is painful, and losing something you expected to have is painful, but it's time to move on".

But this is the conqueror telling the conquered, "Hey, I know change is painful, but it's time to move on. Now get out of my chair."

How do you expect the conquered to respond to that?

Like I said, I'm just trying to offer advice here. At this point, though, I'm going to follow my own advice: I'm "letting go" of this discussion.

 

Nonetheless, Bubba's comments are merciful and inspiring toward detractors. He is encouraging them to be like Luke Skywalker, for crying out loud.

Whatever you see in that Artie that is a waste of time, I don't see it.

We all know what it's like to go through disappointments and difficult changes. All Bubba seems to be saying is "Hey, let's be more like Luke Sywalker" and we'll all get through this.

I don't understand? Bubba doesn't understand? Who else doesn't understand what's really going on here. Artie?

I think I understand that it's better to be positive about the things you like than negative about the things you don't. And I support Bubba in wanting to share the same philosophy, even with the people who are in the worst spot right now. It could help any of us who have lost something we value.

 

The conquerer and the conquered.

Many Star Wars TCG fans are Star Wars CCG fans who loved the old game. Some were furious that the license got moved. But now it's four months later. And many have 'let go' of the anger.

You are saying that if a person acts angry, that it is justified because they are 'the conquered'.

Wrong.

They are fans who are hurting themselves and trying to hurt others because they invested a lot of emotional energy in something that didn't pan out. I guess in a sense, they have conquered themselves.

Anyway, I agree with you our discussion should probably give way for others to discuss this. But this thread should not die.

In my opinion, Bubba is not a conquering hero trying to persuade the conquered to agree with him. He is a fan who has adapted to change by trying to get other fans to, if not adapt, at least be civil. He does this by using a Star Wars metaphor. I can't think of anything more appropriate for a Star Wars thread than this.

You know what you are Artie? You're trying to be a neutral card. That's cool though.

 

Netcowboy wrote:
"You are saying that if a person acts angry, that it is justified because they are 'the conquered'."

Conquered? This statement is a joke, isn't it? Talking about inflamatory statements.

Restrainingbolt

 

(Sigh) I can't stay out of this if I'm going to be misquoted...

Restrainingbolt, I was the one who used the "conquered" phrase. Blame me, not netcowboy.

And let's be honest. WOTC "conquered" Decipher for the CCG license. Whether the victory was based entirely on merit or whether it was based on an unholy alliance between Hasbro and Lucasfilm Licensing IS IRRELEVANT and does not change the fact that it was a victory for WOTC and a loss for Decipher.

 

"Conquered" I'm afraid is the "wrong" phrase. WOTC has taken over the CCG license. It hasn't done "Squat" with it "yet". Time will tell how well it performs relative to the Decipher game. The motivations relating to "why" Lucas licensing pulled the game away from Decipher are debatable. I'm personally content to sit on the side lines and watch the action for the most part. It will be an interesting year to say the least.

Restrainingbolt

 

Lord willing, this'll be my last post in this thread.

First, to clarify, I am not taking Fortuna's comments personally. I am simply bringing to the forefront my belief that incessantly calling the SWTCG illegitimate, constantly bashing the game without backing up the harsh words with good reasons, and - IN PARTICULAR - interrupting TCG threads to express one's utter disdain are ridiculous. We TCG'ers should NOT be asked to grin and bear all of it.

(And I'm not suggesting Fortuna is guilty of everything I listed above, or that he alone has been guilty of incivility. It's just that his comment in yodasbarber's thread seemed to be among the most egregious of recent posts - and his replies to this thread demonstrated no recognition of what my complaint has REALLY been about.)

Nor is THIS the case:

But this is the conqueror telling the conquered, "Hey, I know change is painful, but it's time to move on. Now get out of my chair."

I see this situation as new guys (the TCG fans) coming to an established, PUBLIC hang-out and asserting that they shouldn't be sneered at every time they walk through the door.

Further, while this may be an instance where WotC won a business victory over Decipher, this ISN'T a case of "conquest" or an "unholy alliance" - nor were the FANS involved in either.

(People have long been referring to the CCG as the "One True Game" and now Artie's suggesting the TCG resulted from an "unholy alliance"? These games are simply that: games. They're NOT conflicting religions; using phrases usually reserved for religions will NOT make peace here any easier to attain.)

This is my hope, that there be three types of threads on this forum:

1. Discussions about the merits of the CCG and TCG, where comparisons and criticisms of the two games are most welcome.

2. Discussions particularly tailored for CCG fans, such as the CCG Name Game and "Yes/No" game.

3. Discussions particularly tailored to the TCG fans, such as yodasbarber's question about TCG websites.

The idea is that the first group of threads would have, for the most part, observations that are thoughtful and free of emotional baggage - the result of people loving a game too much OR hating a game too much.

The second group of threads would be free from disruptions from the TCG fans. As far as I know, they are.

(Seriously, I don't visit the CCG Name Game and "Yes/No" Game threads too often, because they don't frankly interest me. At the same time, I certainly don't have a problem with the CCG'ers doing their own thing, and I most certainly do NOT disrupt their threads.)

Likewise, the third group of threads would be free from disruptions from the CCG fans. For the most part, they are, and I tip my hat to the many CCG fans who are civil enough to not interrupt those threads. But there is JUST enough disruption to be noticeable, and THAT'S what I think should stop.

If ALL that happens, everybody will be more-or-less happy.

Again, it's not too much to ask, and hopefully this'll be about all I need to say on the topic.

 

For some reason I just can't stay away from this topic....

We TCG'ers should NOT be asked to grin and bear all of it.

The die-hard CCG'ers feel insulted that their game was taken away. You want the CCG'ers to "grin and bear" this insult, but you are not willing to "grin and bear" a harmless jab like Bib's?

Yes, harmless. Ask anyone if their opinion of SW:TCG was changed because of something Bib said. Ask anyone if they decided to stay away from this forum because of the way Bib treated them. I predict you will find ZERO. Harmless.

Nor is THIS the case:

"But this is the conqueror telling the conquered, 'Hey, I know change is painful, but it's time to move on. Now get out of my chair.'"

That may not be your intent, but that is the effect. You may not view yourself as a conqueror, but you are -- or at least, as a die-hard fan of the TCG, you ally yourself with the conqueror.

I see this situation as new guys (the TCG fans) coming to an established, PUBLIC hang-out and asserting that they shouldn't be sneered at every time they walk through the door.

Sneered at? No, more like heckled, if anything.

Earlier you just said you don't take the comments personally, but this comment and the one above ("we TCG'ers are asked to grin and bear it") say otherwise. So which is it?

Further, while this may be an instance where WotC won a business victory over Decipher, this ISN'T a case of "conquest" ....

Ha! Bet me. You don't think the guys at WOTC are doing cartwheels in the hallways because SW:CCG is finally dead? You don't think they're glad they dealt a major blow to one of their biggest competitors?

and now Artie's suggesting the TCG resulted from an "unholy alliance"?

Oh, I did not! Good grief, I'd rather be heckled and sneered at than misquoted. I specifically said however this "conquest" came about WHETHER ON THE MERITS OF THE GAME or -- and here I was being melodramatic to make a point -- an unholy alliance between LL and WOTC IS IRRELEVANT. I made no such suggestion and I'm sick and tired of being misquoted. Either read my posts thoroughly and with understanding or leave me out of these discussions.

Bubba, you are obviously passionate about TCG. (I wish you had tried SW:CCG, because I think you would have found it a much more rewarding game, more worthy of your passions, but c'est la vie.) Likewise, there are a fair number of people passionate about SW:CCG here. Since SW:CCG has been killed in favor of SW:TCG, in general the CCG'ers are bitter.

You never played SW:CCG, so it is hard for a CCG'er to take your advice that they should "let go" of the game, and "grin and bear it". It's easy for you to say, because you never invested any of yourself in this game.

Yes, yes, you told us all about your Star Trek comic series that got killed in the middle of a big cliff hanger. It's not the same thing. There are no Star Trek comic book tournaments, where you try to be the top Star Trek comic book reader in your city, state, region or world. You do not spend hours, days, wondering what type of Star Trek comic book you should build to be competitive against all other Star Trek comic books out there. You do not get together at the local comic book store with a group of friends and read Star Trek comic books together. So it's not the same thing.

Do you sense how frustrated I am? That's nothing, because I sympathize with you. There are others on this board who could care less about you and SW:TCG, and maybe even a few who would like for you to go away.

They aren't going to listen to you. Why should they? Your tone is condescending, even your handle "the Genius" is condescending, and you admit you've never played their game. Don't you see how that undermines your credibility when you ask the CCG'ers to "grin and bear it"?

Do you see how frustrated you yourself are getting? Have you thought about why you are getting more frustrated instead of less? Because while your intentions are good, you d

 

No, Dude, this thread is NOT about convincing CCG'ers to "love this new game". It is about convincing CCG'ers to ALLOW OTHERS to enjoy the game in relative peace.

I see this a lot. This along with "The CCGers keep flaming the TCG" and "Don't bash the TCG without backing your statements up" blah blah blah.

I can't help but remind everyone of The Golden Rule. For those that don't know "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

That means, if you want CCGers to stop bashing the TCG without backing stuff up, then that goes for the TCGers as well. How many threads have I posted in now where posters constantly knock the CCG with vague statements, "pot-stirring" comments, and misinformation. IMO, I see a lot of the TCG threads do nothing but provoke a confrontation.. like this one. I don't comment on the TCG because I don't know anything about it and don't want to know anything about it. Why? I have plenty on my plate keeping up with the CCG on a daily basis. I am more than willing to let the TCG succeed or fail based on its mechanics. The CCG has already proved its staying-power thusly.

But I will say this as the last word--do NOT tell a SWCCG player to "let it go" or esentially to "shut up". It will never happen, especially with TCGers pushing their game in our faces in the very next paragraph. Yes, the TCG has every right to be here, JUST AS the CCGers have every right to continue discussing the CCG whenever they want.

Bottomline: If you don't like the CCG, fine, stay out of our threads then if you have nothing constructive to say--especially if you little to nothing about the CCG. Likewise to the CCGers as it relates to the TCG threads. Any more threads like this from either party will be shut down promptly.