Speculation Let's do a thought experiment, looking at this with fresh eyes...

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Ghost, Nov 1, 2012.

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  1. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Let's do a thought experiment, so we can look at this with fresh eyes...


    *You have never seen or heard of Star Wars before (you could be your age, or you could be a kid, you decide)

    *Your older cousin says you just HAVE to watch Star Wars, all 9 movies. You agree, since your older cousin usually has good tastes in movies. The two of you decide to have a sleepover: watching the first 6 movies in one day, and the last 3 movies the following day.

    *You watch Episode I for the first time. Then Episodes II, III, IV, IV, VI. Only some snacks and bathroom breaks in-between. Before you know it, it's time to go to bed, and watch the last three episodes in the morning.

    *So, you've just seen the first 6 movies for the first time, everything is new and fresh in your mind. You also knew as a fact, before even starting, that there are 9 movies, and you're going to see those last 3 movies in a few hours.

    *What do you naturally expect the next 3 movies to be about? What's the conflict? Who are the bad guys? [face_thinking]
    Last edited by Summer Dreamer, Nov 1, 2012
  2. WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2010
    star 4
    Post RotJ. Republic revived. Jedi powerful.
    (if only this actually happened!)
  3. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    The things that should happen after the end of ROTJ:

    1. Revival of the Republic
    2. Rebuilding of the Jedi order
    3. Disbanding of the clone army

    are completely uninteresting. No one wants to see that.
    JoinTheSchwarz likes this.
  4. Kyle Katarn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 1998
    star 6
    The Ewoks. It seems FAR too convenient that the second Death Star just so happened to orbit their homeworld. I'd think the sneaky bastages are up to no good.
  5. Ramza JC Head Admin and RPF Manager

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2008
    star 6
    He would have to see the ball falling the same way in an accelerating rocket as he would in a gravitational field!





    ... Wait, wrong thought experiment.
  6. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    I'm wondering if a new viewer, who just saw 1-6 but knew there was also 7-9, would assume that the Empire isn't defeated yet... or the slaves haven't been all freed yet... or something else. And what that could mean for the ST.
  7. Lord_Shame Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Rebuilding of the Jedi Order and New Republic, or at least a rebuilt Jedi Order and Republic. The Jedi at the height of their power and wisdom (the prequel trilogy Jedi were clearly dysfunctional and arrogant). Issues involving a just system of governance while maintaining liberty and freedom (the answer to Anakin's issues with the Old Republic which weren't resolved during the OT). Probably Luke's children and Han and Leia's children, due to the father-son issues of the first six movies.

    No ideas about what the conflict would be.
  8. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    Probably hundreds of years in the future, the Jedi order is different than it was before, the characters of the previous films are long dead legends, and now an entirely new threat is creeping up. Because I would expect an era of peace post RotJ once the Empire is totally disbanded.
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  9. Guy-Gone_Weird Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2003
    star 2
    It's similar to what I expected before reading any Post-ROTJ EU material. Like TESB, the Empire would get revenge for their defeat, and it would be up to the heroes to stop them. I'd also expect to see the heroes struggling to restore the government to what it was - only better, without the things that caused it to fall in the first place.

    Following the 3-act structure (assuming that there will be only 3 "Episode" trilogies), the 3rd trilogy would have the heroes overcome their problems and come out better. But within the trilogy, things have to get worse before they get better.

    While I don't think they should adapt any of these, I think these stories really captured it for me:
    • X-Wing series - struggle to retake the government and begin to build a new one
    • Jedi Academy Trilogy - the Jedi are reborn with mistakes along the way in an effort to support the new direction
    • Thrawn Trilogy - strong new villain who tests the heroes
    • Dark Empire - heroes come the closest to being defeated and are tested to the point of becoming evil, but unite and emerge victorious, signifying the birth of a new generation, and a new hope
    • Crimson Empire III/Hand of Thrawn - peace is made with their enemies without wiping each other out completely
    If they could nail the aspects I've pointed out, then that's what I'd expect to see. Put simply, they should start to make things better, come the absolute closest to failing (more than ROTJ), but unite and succeed by the end of Episode IX.
  10. Jobertus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 3
    Not in any particular order, but as a new fan of this wierd universe called Star Wars what I would want to see is--

    I. Rebuilding (or Rebuilt) Jedi Order
    II. Rebuilding a (or Rebuilt) gallactic democratic government
    III. Bad*** lightsaber/force duels
    IV. Luke a kick*** Jedi Master
    V. Han and Leia's kids
    VI. Luke mentoring new Jedi, Han and Leia's kids
    VII. New Jedi Order facing a new emerging threat to the galaxy
    VIII. An evil bad guy (Powerful hidden Sith, whether that be a secret apprentice of Darth Sidious or Darth Plagueis/Hego Damask emerges from 70+ years of seclusion, or a group of Dark Jedi intent on unravelling everything the Jedi have fought for, etc.) As a newbie fan of Star Wars I don't know how I know of Hego Damask, I'm just a super smart kid who trusts his cousin's taste in movies.
    IX. Possible other surviving Jedi knights from the Old Republic.
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  11. Luke_Sparkewalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 4
    I agree this is the direction it should be going - what if you just saw them all and knew there were three more.

    The logical thing is the Imperial Remnet. And thing a even bigger threat behind that.

    Even though there was a nice celebration throughout the galaxy in 6, dosen't mean its over - look at ANH:

    Big medal celebration - but the empire lives on somewhere else.

    Yes they killed vader, palps etc. but if you are watching films in order it still really makes it fit having the empire still be a threat. But i love the idea of, maybe in epi.8/early9, having the rebels and empire make peace to fit together against a bigger threat. That would be amazing.
  12. chicago103 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Great thought experiment!undefined I should do a six movie Star Wars marathon in the coming days or weeks, think about it from the perspective of your premise and get back to you with my more detailed thoughts then.

    My initial thoughts though are as follows. The next three movies (the third and final trilogy) would have to combine the best elements of the first two trilogies.

    It should include the political intrigue between the Republic and the Jedi we saw in Episodes I-III, thus Coruscant would be a major planet in the plots again after being absent for the entirety of Episodes IV-VI with the exception of it being shown for a few seconds in the victory montage at the end of ROTJ and that in and of itself is kind of a foreshadowing of the planet's return to form in VII-IX. The senate chamber and Jedi Temple should be shown again except the former rebels in the senate of the New Republic and now Luke Skywalker in charge of the new Jedi Council. One wouldn't expect galactic civilization to be completely back to normal in VII but at least the good guys so to speak have the upper hand in the beginning and not be the good guys in exile we saw in IV-VI. The rebuilding of government and the Jedi order would be part of the conflict in VII-IX.

    In episodes IV-VI we definitely see a pattern emerge that shows this whole saga is focused on the Skywalker family. It is pretty clear the first six episodes are about Anakin Skywalker's fall and redemption but the second trilogy is largely seen through the eyes of Luke Skywalker. Even if you saw I-III first and you know Anakin is Darth Vader and Luke's father you still don't see any human side of him in Episode IV, there is no on screen introspective or inner conflict with Vader, he comes off as bad ass but still mostly just a mindless monster, no humanity or good still being in him as Padme said in Episode III. So it is hard to have much sympathy for Vader in Episode IV unless you dwell on what happened to him in the previous three but the attention worthy of a protagonist is clearly shifted to Luke Skywalker and it would be pretty clear that he is "the new hope". Of course the ultimate revelation and confrontation with Vader would not be a surprise in ESB (V) but it would be the first time Vader showed some kind of humanity in his desire to destroy the emperor and rule with his son. In ROTJ (VI) this all comes to a head with Vader's heroic death in killing the emperor and the revelation of Leia's identity to Luke. It is also pretty clear that Han Solo is supposed to have some kind of romantic involvement with Leia at the conclusion of ROTJ. So the continuation of the main surviving characters after VI seems only natural.

    That being said it would also be fairly clear that VII-IX would be set significantly after VI given the precedent already set with the first two trilogies. There is a whole generation between I-III and IV-VI and thus it only makes sense for another generation to pass before the events of VII-IX so I can honestly say a sharp movie watcher having just seen I-VI for the first time would not expect VII to take place shortly after ROTJ (VI). It would be pretty clear after six films and knowing there are three more that this is a "trilogy of trilogies" and each trilogy is a different generation. Thus expect VII-IX to be about the third generation of Skywalkers by blood, most likely via Han and Leia having children about Luke and Leia's age in IV in VII. The conflict between generations could also be a theme in the next trilogy.

    As far as the villain or the "bad guys" that would actually be the hardest part believe it or not. The thing is that from the perspective of someone who sees I-VI in order it is clear that Palpatine THE villain throughout and he is a great one at that, the entire conflict is in essence orchestrated by him. Thus his death at the end of ROTJ (VI) would no doubt leave the biggest question mark for someone going to bed after watching I-VI. In fact I would dare say from this perspective a weakness of Episode IV and to an extent Episode V is the absence and small cameo role of Palpatine respectively. Literally I can picture this alternate SW virgin of myself saying "hey this IV and first part of V is great and all but where's the Palpy?!" Palpatine's return only makes VI more epic in this regard and his death leaving a big question mark of where the conflict with bad guys can go from here. That is not to say this is necessarily a bad thing because the mere speculation of it all would make it exciting to the first time movie watcher. I suppose the only precedent we have is something involving more Sith, we were told "always two there are" in Episode I. So perhaps Jedi in the new Jedi order and perhaps even a third generation Skywalker being tempted or falling to the Dark Side. Perhaps Palpatine showing up as a dark side force ghost and tempting one the Skywalker descendants, of course I wouldn't expect Palpatine to be the villain because as a force spirit he would be prohibited from directly intervening but rather just making cameos in order to encourage the dark plots of the new Sith villain(s).

    Those are just my initial thoughts before doing a I-VI marathonundefined
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  13. ophelia Cards Against Humanity Host. Ex-Mod

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2002
    star 6
    This is what I'd very much like to see.
  14. JediBendu Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 1999
    star 3
    I would expect it to be about the one plot thread that they set up in the first movies but never actually explicitly followed through in the classic trilogy. The prophecy. The whole balance of the force thing. I would expect that now that the Skywalkers were no longer under the shadow of the dark side, they would be able to complete their destiny and bring balance to the force. I would expect the last movie to be called Star Wars: Episode IX: The Balance of the Force.

    And yes, I know that GL has said that the force was balanced by Vader killing Sidious - but as a viewer of the films with no further background this would not be apparent to me. Indeed a friend who had never seen the films before asked about the prophecy, and how she had expected to see some follow through on that.
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  15. Mechalich Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2010
    star 4
    The answer to the OP question depends entirely on one thing: how much time has passed.

    If Episode VII starts immediately following Episode VI then we already know what happens: the plotline will inevitably unfold in a fashion resembling what the New Republic Era of the EU offers. The Empire will fight on, but it will fragment without Palpatine and Vader, the Rebel Alliance will eventually take Coruscant and become the dominant faction in the galaxy, adn the Jedi Order will rebuild under Luke Skywalker's leadership.

    The Battle of Endor is essentially the decisive mid-point of the war. It is the moment where the outcome is effectively decided - in this case through the Emperor's death - and the triumph of the Rebel cause becomes inevitable. A rough historical equivalent would be the Battle of Gettysburg - following that battle (and the concorrent defeat as Vicksburg) it became truly impossible for a Confederate military victory to occur, everything boiled down to how long it would take and the particulars. The thing is, the war still went on for years afterwards, and it was grim going indeed.

    For this reason, as a modest aside, this is why the Sequels should skip ahead significantly in time, at least to roughly 20 years later (the logical move is to simply preserve the EU up to 19 ABY, when the war ends, but even if you ignore the EU a good chunk of time is required), so as to avoid telling the story of this already determined conflict.

    It is actually difficult to specualte on what would naturally unfold in the galaxy after the Imperial threat ended. The EU does not address this. It chose instead to pull an outside-context problem out and use that to restart the story (the Yuuzhan Vong). As chicago103 noted astutely, there is only one principle villain in the movies, and that's Palpatine. Star Wars is epic melodrama and a viewer reliant only on the films would presumably recognize this and think about possible sources for the new villain a new trilogy demands.

    One possibility is Darth Plagueis. This has been referenced on the Lit boards, but it makes a certain amount of sense. He is the only other Sith named in the films to work with. A movie-only viewer might also look to see more nastiness coming from the Hutts, as their presence undergoes a steady growth through the course of all six movies. There is also, of course, the simple possibility of bringing Palptine back, whether as a clone (as Dark Empire does), or as some sort of spiritual entity that is capable of defying death, or something even stranger.

    Then again, perhaps this hypothetical movie watcher would expect no real consistency. There are tremendous thematic differences between the trwo trilogies, and it would make sense for that to continue into a third trilogy. There's also relatively little character carryover. If existing trends hold we should only see a few major characters move from one trilogy to the next, the majority of the cast should be new. The droids will obviously remain, and of the Luke, Han, and Leia, Luke fits the elder cameo role the best so he is most likely to show, guiding a new member of the next skywalker generation (there are two Skywalker generations in each trilogy, counting Shimi, so that would be one pattern to hold).
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  16. Master_Jacen Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2003
    star 6
    So, okay. The question you pose is this: WHAT IF YOU SAW THE FIRST SIX STAR WARS MOVIES AND YOU KNEW THERE WERE THREE MORE WHAT DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD BE ABOUT?!

    it seems really silly that you took the time to think of such a weirdly hypothetical scenario for the watching of star wars movies that is in fact, exactly identical to how literally every other person ever has seen star wars movies. its like you asked "GERMANY IS GOING TO START A WAR AND THEN LOSE IT AND THEN START ANOTHER WAR AND LOSE IT TOO WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN AFTER THAT" but you asked that in 1944 when we knew we were going to win but didn't know how that win would pan out, so we all knew your question was valid but nobody understood why you took the time to frame it as you did because it was just a pointless waste of time.

    ....do you see what i'm saying?
  17. EviL_eLF Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2003
    star 4
    Ok first off... if showing these films to someone who has never seen them before... you HAVE to show them in the order they were released. That is how you get the full effect... I mean come on, you just ruin the big reveal of Vader being Luke's father otherwise!

    Chronological order is only for those of us who have already seen and enjoyed the films IMO.
  18. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    I would expect to see another 20-30 year jump ahead in time. The Rebublic and Jedi Order have been rebuilt with the OT characters in high positions in the Senate/Chancellor's Office/Jedi Council. Han and Leia have had one or more children who are now around age 20. Luke is now an aged Jedi Master and mentor who passes on his knowledge to the next generation before dying. Then it ultimately becomes about whether the next generation will follow in the footsteps of Anakin, Luke, or forge a new path of their own.
  19. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    I'm asking you to put yourself i nthe perspective of someone who had never seen or heard of Star Wars before, probably you as a kid, and then knowing there are 9 movies and sitting down to watch all 9 of them in 2 days. After seeing the first 6 for the first time, and knowing from the start that there would be 9, what would your expectations be?
  20. TychoCorde Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2012
    star 1
    I would expect Ep VII to be about The Rebellion starting up the New Republic and cleaning up the remnants of the Empire. So basically what's already kind of been written except no new warlord of the week.
  21. RMThompson Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2012
    Precisely. That's why while MEGAFANS are clamoring to see the novels on the big screen, I think it needs to be more exciting. If I just finished ROTJ and I am popping in the next movie, I would expect to see these same characters again, even if it is X years in the future. The first 6, when taken in order, take place over the course of 36 years, and the jump between the trilogies is about 20 years, so I can't imagine them going any sooner than 20 years down the road, or any further than 40 years down the road. The benefit of going older, of course, is perhaps using some of the original characters, as we would expect to see them again.

    The first 6 stories are Darth Vader's rise as a Villian until he falls, and becomes a hero. I would think the opposite might be true in the newest set... as for the "bad guys" I definitely should think the remnants of the Empire our out there, rebuilding, perhaps a new Sith has been found?
  22. Anakins_Real_Father Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2002
    star 3
    I've written down a lot of ideas for a third trilogy. Here are some thoughts I had for episode 7:

    The third trilogy begins another 20 or 30 years after Episode 6. The galaxy is in chaos because the structure of the Empire has fallen apart, yet it still exists, controlled by twisted imperials with lust for power. The Empire is still at large, yet without the Sith, the Empire has no backbone. The whole galaxy is trying to rebuild structured governments, yet the Empire continues to resist. There are huge battles in all corners of the galaxy. Worlds struggle to gain back their way of life since before the evil empire.

    The jedi are few; An aged Luke and Leia, a few new Jedi who have been knighted by Luke and many padawans who have much to learn. Luke remembered the words of Yoda to pass on what he had learned, and he did this on a daily basis.The remaining Jedi search the galaxy to recruit every "vergence" in the force they can find, and with a lot of hard work, a new jedi order begins to form. Learning how to use the force becomes a large theme of the film. We witness what it really takes to become a jedi, which we really only scratch the surface on this in the previous films.

    The Rebel Alliance and the Jedi Council are now basically one, with Luke at he head. The council chamber is not back on Courscant however. It's in a large "Jedi Starship" amongst the Rebel Fleet so it can be mobile.

    Bringing order back to the galaxy is the Jedi's top priority, however this task is more difficult than they could possibly imagine. The jedi are too few and the Empire is not the only force against them because many worlds still no longer trust the Jedi. Chaos in the galaxy continues. Every world is struggling for power. The Jedi travel on countless peacekeeping missions, and slowly build relationships and alliances with many systems.

    Luke will not actually be the main Jedi of the Trilogy. He does have an apprentice though. The main Jedi will be the son of Leia & Han Solo. This new member of the skywalker family will be the owner of R2 & 3P0 and will go on many missions to bring peace to the galaxy. He will not be aware of his family link to Darth Vader from the beginning, but he'll learn it over time. He'll be kind of like his father, Han Solo; a swashbuckler... scoundrel, yet a jedi just the same. Actually, a lot like Anakin, but with not as much inner conflict. Of course he'll pilot the Millennium Falcon, a present from his old man, Han. He'll complain that it's a piece of junk, but he'll learn to love it over time. This jedi will not understand what his wise uncle Luke is going through and he will try to help, but instead sometimes become a hinderance until he really learns what is going on.

    And of course there will be a Sith follower who tries to infiltrate the Empire.
    ...I've got more but that's the just of it.
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  23. Valin__Kenobi Author: Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Praji

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4
    Good thread! I agree pretty much wholesale with chicago103's post. It would seem obvious that the ST should be a generation later, not an immediate followup to ROTJ. It's clear now, and I think it will be even more so to new viewers, that the true antagonist in the films is the dark side of the Force (in the form of the Sith) and the Empire is just one particular incarnation of it (as the Confederacy was just one of its tools in the PT). We didn't see the cleanup of Confederacy remnants after the Clone Wars, so it's not necessarily foregone that we would see the cleanup of Imperial forces right after ROTJ--it just seems that way to us since almost all of us came to the saga in an OT-centric way.

    I would expect a whole new antagonist for three new films, but would still expect some form of dark side influence--specifically Sith, since in the film universe the two are basically synonymous and inseparable. But after the Sith have taken over the galaxy and lost it, how do you escalate the stakes? The Hutts or another underworld threat, while awesome, would be too trivial after three movies of All Jedi And Sith All The Time and then three movies based on the last of those groups taking each other on. (It's so hard to put yourself in that frame of mind now, but remember it was a long, long time before it was established that Palpatine was a Sith at all.)

    I would expect something suitably epic resolving all those dangling threads regarding the prophecy and the unexplained mysteries of the Force. I would expect Palpatine returning (a la Dark Empire), or Plagueis' quest for immortality paying off and how it connects with Qui-Gon discovering a way to reappear as a spirit (something with potentially huge implications that was unfortunately left by the wayside), or something completely off the wall and massive like Luke bringing balance by destroying the dark side once and for all.
    Last edited by Valin__Kenobi, Nov 2, 2012
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  24. Darth Roach Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    I like it.
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