Senate Let's talk about sexism.

Discussion in 'Community' started by Sith-Lord-Gunray, Sep 7, 2013.

  1. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    One thing to consider, Obi-Zahn, is that a lot of this discussion comes down to academic discourse (in which a lot of modern and extremist feminism is based in). For example, some feminists will say that sexism against men can't exist since there is not institutionalized and systematic discrimination against men. Now, you might point to something like domestic violence where men are treated as the perpetrators no matter what the circumstances and have little recourse as victims. Some feminists would argue, though, that this doesn't "count" as an example of sexism against men because it is based on sexism against women -- namely the notion that women are too weak to hurt a man.

    It's really a "technical" definition that I, personally, don't subscribe to. And it represents the thinking of a fraction of feminists. For my money, there's no doubt that the male victims of domestic violence are horrifically discriminated against by the system.

    One thing to remember, though, is that feminists on the internet aren't representative of feminists as a whole -- they're the vocal minority. Just as extremist Muslims are a vocal minority against millions of peaceful Muslims who quietly practice their religion. Or the Westboro Baptist Church is an extremely vocal and vulgar minority that in no way represents all Christians.

    I consider myself a feminist wholeheartedly, but aside from discussions like this once in a while, it's not something I discuss on the internet or make a huge part of my life. It's just a set of values I carry with me that inform my actions. I imagine it's much the same for most feminists.
  2. harpua Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 8
    So, are you done with this thread yet?
    Juliet316 likes this.
  3. LostOnHoth Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2000
    star 5
    Again for the last time, your definitions are wrong. Racism and sexism are just forms of discrimination. Racism is discriminiation based upon race. Sexism is discrimination based upon gender. On this basis, blacks and whites can be discriminated against. Men and women can be discriminated against. You are also anthropomorphising the concept of "society". Society is a construct. Society cannot engage in discrimination in the same was as society cannot ride a bicycle or eat an ice cream. Individuals discriminate and they do so simply on the basis of a characteristic which defines membership in a group. Social 'norms' determine whether that discrimination is to be encouraged to discouraged. Social norms change. I feel sorry for you.
    Last edited by LostOnHoth, Sep 8, 2013
  4. Obi-Zahn Kenobi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 1999
    star 7
    Wow. Even when I preach politically correct orthodoxy I am opposed.
  5. harpua Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 8
    You're more idiotic than oppressed.
  6. Obi-Zahn Kenobi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 1999
    star 7
    Opposed.

    Also isn't that flaming?
  7. EmpireForever Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2004
    star 8
    @HealerLeona, did anyone ever tell you you're full of good ideas?
    Healer_Leona likes this.
  8. Lord Vivec Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    It's not flaming until Whitey shows up.
    harpua and Obi-Zahn Kenobi like this.
  9. LostOnHoth Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2000
    star 5
    Yes because you are wrong. The point you seem to be constantly missing is that a white person can be discriminated against by a black person and that is an example of racism but it is not systemic racism . Therefore white people are not oppressed. The "what about teh white malez?!?!?!" response that you seem so hung up about is an articulation of this point. Discrimination against women is systemic. That is why women generally don't have much time for those guys who wander into this thread whining about being discriminated against at work by his female boss. Yes it happens, but let's focus on the systemic stuff.
    Last edited by LostOnHoth, Sep 8, 2013
  10. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    Yes, but you're baiting too, and pretty blatantly.

    harpua, that wasn't appropriate.


    Misa ab iPhono meo est.
    Juliet316 likes this.
  11. Obi-Zahn Kenobi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 1999
    star 7
    You do realize we're saying the same thing, except that we merely disagree about the presence of systemic sexism towards women, right?

    I have had people disdainfully condescend to me because I espoused basically what you're saying - racism is discrimination based on race. It took a long time before anyone bothered to actually clearly explain to me that we meant different things - discrimination can happen for any reason, but racism specifically means discrimination based upon race which is systemic. I've heard this time and time again.

    We agree that systemic racism towards whites doesn't exist.
  12. LostOnHoth Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2000
    star 5
    Look, I don't think you are picking up what I'm putting down so I'll call it a day.
    Juliet316 likes this.
  13. Sith-Lord-Gunray Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2003
    star 7
    Hey I just woke up, but clearly since even the JCC mods can't seem to tell what's on topic and not anymore, you guys might as well just lock the thread if you feel like just feeding the OZK bait which you enjoy letting continue in every thread. Like seriously this has just turned into another OZKfest and not a thread of anything close to the OP. So please, kindly, lock and end the offensiveness.
    Obi-Zahn Kenobi likes this.
  14. TahiriVeilaSolo69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2002
    star 5
  15. harpua Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 8
    There's got to be a better way of dealing with his bull**** than continuously locking every thread he completely derails. I mean, how many threads is this? The conversation shouldn't end altogether because of one person.
  16. VanishingReality Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2013
    star 3
    The glass ceiling effect is very real and it's in almost all industries. There is a low ratio of minorities and women holding upper management positions in most large companies. The only time I can imagine a such a scenario the one described would be in fields that are predominately "pink collar" fields and even then I might be skeptical that anyone can make a good enough case to win a claim for 'reverse' gender discrimination in terms of promotion because affirmative action measures are still endeavoring to assure even just equal representation for women.
  17. Zapdos Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2013
    star 5
    at least you predicted the worms
    Last edited by Zapdos, Sep 8, 2013
  18. s65horsey Otter-loving Former EUC Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2006
    star 7
    I'm so disappointed in OZK. I know the rest of you aren't surprised by this, but I have had a tendency to think he's not too far off in some of what he puts out there. But...to come in a thread and completely disrespect the women who have posted real life examples with his own story that has more to do with his height than his gender...wow. I think I'm done with him.
    GrandAdmiralJello likes this.
  19. Adam of Nuchtern Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4

    There's always the ban-stick.
    Last edited by Adam of Nuchtern, Sep 8, 2013
  20. Juliet316 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2005
    star 7
    Considering his comments about rape in one of the time travel threads, I'm not surprised. At all.
  21. Obi-Zahn Kenobi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 1999
    star 7
    I used to laugh at people who complained about discrimination towards men. I've had teachers who disliked me for being male and given me poor grades for it (when you grade distribution is like 1 male with an A and 15 females - you're discriminating), in high school, but never really anything serious until lately. I've found, in medical school, male voices are routinely silenced, male students are much more harshly criticized, women are much more likely to be in student leadership positions, and the faculty often feel free in making outrageous comments to males about their maleness. I am not "automatically threatening". I am unnaturally calm and gentle because I take such care.

    The fact is that in the microcosm of my medical school, sexism against males does exist. I have multiple faculty make comments to me about my size and gender. It's only because of my experience in medical school that I've decided discrimination against males is a problem.

    People laugh and me and mock me routinely because I have the gall to stand up and say, "No! I do not like that my genitals are mutilated." I have suffered wounds and hurt because of my sex. In the last year, I've developed intense feelings of self-loathing because of the constant belittling of my masculinity, size, and genitalia.

    So no, I've experienced very real incidents of gender discrimination which have been very hurtful to me. I've also been physically assaulted by women and groped by them - them thinking it's okay because I'm male. These problems for me are real, and they don't detract from the awful things that people perpetrate against women or somehow offend those experiences.

    Men can be hurt too. I've actually experienced hurt - and I damn we'll believe that were I a woman and espousing this, that many of you would perceive what I say much differently and be much less likely to be so malicious in your responses.

    I was going to let this thread be, but I'm very fond of you Lisa, and I wanted to let you know that the discrimination I've experienced the last year has been very painful for me and why I've developed a greater interest in gender relations.

    Rape is evil and horrid and no one should endure it. That has always been my position.
  22. Rosslcopter Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 3
    New rule. All posts on this topic must use only words of 5 letters or fewer.
  23. Lord Vivec Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    MrZAP likes this.
  24. Rosslcopter Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 3
    My post wasn't on this topic, it was in this thread.
    Last edited by Rosslcopter, Sep 8, 2013
  25. Juliet316 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2005
    star 7
    Even this comment?