Senate Let's talk about sexism.

Discussion in 'Community' started by Sith-Lord-Gunray, Sep 7, 2013.

  1. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    He was trying to point out that sometimes people have an urge to do things that are wrong, but that it is still our responsibility not to do them. A non-sexual example, like revenge, would probably have gotten his point across more effectively
  2. harpua Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 8
  3. Obi-Zahn Kenobi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 1999
    star 7
    I am biologically geared, i.e., I have the physical capabilities to do lots of things I think are wrong. And a lot of those things are natural urges. However, I have a conscience and thus do not act on improper urges.

    That was the whole point.

    My other posts in that thread readily reveal my detest for rape.
  4. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    I think this has all been a terribly stupid derailment, too. Especially about something so important and timely. But given the gravity of the issue, I'm not really going to be to exasperated that someone wants to clarify their position about whether it's appropriate to commit a capital offense. I think the happy compromise at this point would be to invite anyone who has further questions about that particular instance to PM OZK directly, and the rest of us can continue a discussion about the impact of sexism against women, per the opening post.
    Last edited by Jabba-wocky, Sep 8, 2013
  5. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    @Obi-Zahn Kenobi

    I'm trying to give you a fair chance, but I feel like sometimes (whether unintentionally or not) you wind people up and then when they get upset, you volley back that no one takes your own experiences seriously. Well...(and I'm really not trying to be a jerk in saying this)...don't you think that might be because you have a tendency to come in and denigrate or invalidate the experiences of others? What I mean is this -- let's look at your first post in this thread:

    "I'll say this. Women are the only oppressed group to have better life expectancy than their oppressors."

    What exactly were you trying to say with that? It just came across as dismissive and somewhat condescending. Yes women have longer life expectancies than men. That doesn't mean they aren't being oppressed. Women in Afghanistan live longer than men -- does this mean they are not oppressed? I fail to see what the point was in posting this -- it just came across as though you were invalidating the feelings of alienation women had experienced here.

    Then, you subsequently say this about other posters' complaints:

    "But these rich, white women belly-aching about their oppression is as obnoxious to me as my alleged belly-aching about my oppression as a rich, white male is to most JCers."

    Are you really surprised that this upset some people? That because they happen to be comparatively wealthy by world standards and white that somehow that means their experiences of discrimination are just "belly-aching." Because women here have experienced a fair bit of discrimination -- in terms of pay gaps, hostile working environments, sexual harassment, etc. Now, if you want to add your own voice and talk about issues in your medical school, why not go ahead and simply make your case instead of griping about the "belly-aching" of other posters?

    Your experiences of marginalization in medical school are unfair and they should be addressed, but I don't see why this requires you to, in turn, belittle others' experiences. Now, if I've misunderstood you, I apologize, but I think it's important for you to understand how you can come across to other posters. When you callously dismiss the experiences of others...well...it's not likely that others will give your suffering much due consideration either.
  6. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I think both genders have the biological urge to ****.

    Which isn't wrong. Nor is it in any way equivalent to rape.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Sep 8, 2013
  7. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    We don't need mini-modding, thanks.

    However -- the thread author was pretty clear in the opening pages of this thread that this thread was about sexism against women, and not sexism against men, and consequently not a debate over whether sexism against men exists. OZK -- it was one thing when you started off commenting about sexism against women, but it's another thing when you elected to make the thread all about you and your experiences. That's enough.
  8. Sith-Lord-Gunray Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2003
    star 7
    There's nothing minimodding about me asking you to lock the thread for the reasons I said. That's completely reasonable, and you know it.
  9. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    That was addressed to wocky, not you -- his post was the last in the thread when I started mine.

    I told OZK to stop based on your request -- but if you really still would rather prefer the thread locked, that can happen too.
  10. harpua Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 8
    Please don't lock it. If the derailment is such a problem (and it is), OZK should be dealt with. Locking the thread accomplishes nothing.
  11. Sith-Lord-Gunray Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2003
    star 7
    Mef alright I'll just ignore it then.
  12. Eeth-my-Koth Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2001
    star 9
  13. Rosslcopter Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 3
    I can't believe that in a thread about sexism against women Jello is just ignoring SLG and telling her he knows better.
    Zapdos, PRENNTACULAR and Master_Jacen like this.
  14. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    Actually, I made that call based on harpua's post on the previous page (and again here). So there.

    edit: anyway, enough about that too, since this is ALSO off topic. Good grief this thread.
    Last edited by GrandAdmiralJello, Sep 8, 2013
  15. Suzuki_Akira Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2003
    star 7
    I read this thread for some reason.
  16. TahiriVeilaSolo69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2002
    star 5
  17. Eeth-my-Koth Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2001
    star 9
    Take it to the hate thread.
  18. darthcaedus1138 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2007
    star 5
    I find this entire thread to be farcical and hilarious.
    VanishingReality likes this.
  19. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
    star 7
    As befits any discussion of institutionalized discrimination.
    Ender Sai likes this.
  20. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    @Sith-Lord-Gunray - I have looked at the first page and last of this thread and I'm glad to see a topic like this made. I'm also glad that, in an age when women are out-performing men in most areas (and gaining in the rest), people who think ****-and-ribs give them an entitlement to success respond to this threat to their unearned dominance by muddying the waters. Specifically, I call BS on any notion that sexism against men is actually a thing.

    Sure, there are issues facing men such as comfort in being open about mental health issues, but it's pretty telling when men want to make a discussion of sexism about them. Have pity on us, SLG - we were told the world was our oyster and we'd have a nice, pliable woman at home who would hold no opinions of her own. Learning this is not true, and that we must in fact earn things based on merit... it's terrifying.

    I'm just wading through the rest of the laughable and insecure posts from men in this thread. I'll probably reply to others as I go.

    btw I know equal pay has been raised a lot in this thread, and I'd like to draw attention to this excellent piece from Hanna Rosin: http://www.slate.com/articles/doubl...every_man_s.html?fb_ref=sm_fb_plugin_activity
    Last edited by JoinTheSchwarz, Sep 9, 2013
  21. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    Cool story Hansel. I am glad to know women are in fact not oppressed.
  22. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    In this instance, he's terrified of having to compete and merit and not be given an automatic membership to first class because he's white and male. If I were him too, having to get by on the calibre of his output and his ability to forge viable and respectful relationships with different groups (or "stakeholders" in management speak), I too would be terrified since I was counting on getting ahead by virtue of penis.
    Bib Fartuna likes this.
  23. Suzuki_Akira Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2003
    star 7
    I like that you put "the rest of" there.
    Point Given likes this.
  24. Lord Vivec Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    He wouldn't want to include himself in the common rabble.
  25. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    I'm not threatened by the idea that I may not get a leg up for being a male, Vivec. I'm also not convinced women are all that inferior. Your comments kind of imply the opposite.

    This is an issue that, if you consider yourself an intelligent and forward thinking person, you should give a damn about. Rather than gearing up for the gender equivalent of a 'race traitor' response.
    Last edited by Ender Sai, Sep 8, 2013