CT Let's Talk About the Cave

So let's talk about the legendary cave. Yes, that one cave on Dagobah that seems to be shrouded in energy from the Dark Side of the Force. I want to know is, why is this happening? There are a few times where we witness this cave. I think the first, doesn't Yoda travel to Dagobah in the last season of the Clone Wars and have a vision there? Then we all know the scene where Luke confronts Darth Vader, which is really himself but he has become Vader in the Empire Strikes Back. Now the third, from which I can remember, Luke travels to Dagobah during the Thrawn crisis and the cave gives him an alternate vision of what might of happened back at Jabba's sail barge if a certain woman was present and how that could have changed everything. I don't think that's too much of a spoiler? Anyway, let's talk about the Cave.

Yes, this one:


Here is the scene in the ESB:

 

There's another Legends appearance of the cave, in the story "Heart of Darkness" published in Star Wars Tales #16 that takes place 700 BBY. It features a young Jedi named Minch, a member of Yoda's species (who's totally not Yoda for real) chasing a Dark Jedi to the planet's surface. Minch is mocked for his diminutive size, screams "Size matters not!" (seriously, this guy totally absolutely isn't Yoda seriously for real), the Dark Jedi makes himself look really big then appears to turn into several smaller versions of himself through some Dark Side tomfoolery. Minch defeats him and the Dark Jedi dies, his blood seeping into the ground of the cave, indicating that's where the Dark Side connection comes from.

 

Lol, sounds like Yoda to me.

But my question, why does the dark side of the Force dwell within the cave? Why can't Yoda defeat that darkness? Is it even too powerful for him?

 

Well, in the context of that story, which is ambiguously canon even within Legends continuity, it's from the blood of that Dark Jedi tainting the earth within the cave. Before I delve into this next part, I'd just say that I don't think it's something Yoda could "defeat" even if he wants to. It's not another being, but a place that aspect of the Force chooses to manifest itself for whatever reason. I don't think excising it is quite as simple as Yoda, say, performing a Force exorcism. Anyway, here are my full thoughts on the cave in full...

In the context of The Empire Strikes Back, it's best to think of the Star Wars Saga as a space fairy tale, a fantasy story set against a superficial science fiction backdrop, and to thus take it on those terms. Not as high fantasy, mind you, where there are lengthy appendices that are nearly as long as the books they're in the back of, painstakingly shining a light in every nook and cranny and telling you what crawls under each unturned rock. No, it's a fairy tale. "A long time ago in a Galaxy far, far away...." might as well be "Long ago, in a far away land..."

As such, the Dark Side of the Force has a strong presence in the cave because of unexplained reasons pertaining to what's ostensibly space magic. It doesn't matter. All that matters is the purpose that it serves in the context of the fairy tale that's being told, in that it's a place that tests would-be heroes-in-training (like Luke) as they've never been tested before. Caves traditionally serve as the dwelling place of some evil or another that must be bested, whether it be a dragon or witch or what have you. They're recurring tropes of such stories, because there's a inherent sense of unease and danger they evoke with their shadowy, unseen depths and echoing walls. They're places the light cannot touch, and as such, they trigger something primal.

In this story, the simple farmboy with aspirations of knighthood (Star Wars is such a fairy tale it's not even funny) comes face-to-face with the black-cloaked sorcerer (it just keeps going) that struck down the wise old wizard who mentored him (see what I mean?) and "betrayed and murdered" his father, or so he was told. He strikes down his enemy, but discovers that the true fight he faces is against the darkness within himself, and learns how an inclination towards violence only invites more of the same. Had he not brought his weapons into the cave as Yoda instructed, he likely would have faced something much different, and if he had taken this lesson to heart sooner rather than later, he might have kept both hands.

 

AstroDroid88 asked

But my question, why does the dark side of the Force dwell within the cave? Why can't Yoda defeat that darkness? Is it even too powerful for him?

IIRC, Timothy Zahn in his Heir to the Empire Trilogy was the first to suggest that the structure below the tree used to be a place where a dark lord resided.

The dark side aura is still there but in a certain manner Yoda's aura balances it out and thus prevents Yoda from being detected. At least that's the explanation that sufficiently works for me, because no tree is evil per se.

 

His theory was that the dark lord was killed there, by Yoda, and that left an "emotional bloodstain".

It wasn't the only such spot in his books.

In Dark Force Rising, when Leia's ship flies through the spot in low orbit above Endor where the Death Star blew up and Palpatine died - she has a massive reaction, passing out. And adjusts her ship's course so it won't pass through that spot again in future orbits.

 

Lt. Hija, clearly you need to go hug a tree named Old Man Willow. Don't be surprised if he hugs back.

 

Right. The same thing was shown in "The Saga Of Nomi Sunrider" and in "The Jedi Academy Trilogy". In the final arc of "The Clone Wars", Yoda travels to Dagobah and enters the tree cave as shown in "Voices". In "Destiny", Yoda travels a planet where life is said to have begun long ago and is told that there is an island that is much like the Dagobah cave. It is never explained in the show why these "hot spots" exist, or how they come to exist. In "Rebels", the Jedi Temple on Lothal has sections where the dark side is strong which suggests something akin to the old EU stories. And for a number of years, it has been said that the Temple on Coruscant was built on top of a nexus of dark side energy. Possibly even an old Sith Temple.

 

Cave of Evil - Wookieepedia - Wikia

 

I find it absolutely perfect in concept. A place shrouded with dark side energy, thus dismissed by Jedi killers as a genuine place of refuge.

 

I always assumed the planet had a darkside energy that shielded Yoda's presence to darkside users.

 

That was the old EU explanation. It is unclear if that holds true now. Besides, a presence can only really be felt from a long distance if someone is doing something that causes a disturbance. When Yoda went to Moraband, Palpatine sensed this and contacted Dooku. If Yoda had abruptly died, he would be discovered. Dagobah was considered remote and not given much thought to by the Sith and the Inquisitors.

 

This popped up in another thread but IMHO qualifies as one of the most intriguing speculations regarding Dagobah which I'd like to share:

http://boards.theforce.net/threads/the-bad-science-of-star-wars-tfa.50040095/page-20#post-53527525

Dagobah possibly existing outside our realm (another dimension?) where time is suspended, i.e. runs slower than the rest of the physical universe.

Fascinating!

 

I think the cave is an abandoned Sith Temple. Notice the steps in TCW.

 

The cave is just a very abstract metaphor that Luke must control the darkness within himself and a foreboding warning that he could befall the same fate as his father. Of course Luke doesn't know the truth of his father yet to get the latter part of warning yet. It is a very arty film making which Lucas is fond and many aspects of Star Wars is very abstract.

 

Slicer87

I partially agree, the confrontation with Vader is - of course - abstract, a metaphor, test or whatever.

Yet, the place is made to appear very real, especially given the fact that Luke enters a section of an artificial underground complex.

I will not exlude the possibility that there is a lot of Freudian dream interpretation required, but then it has to address this observation.



Taken from another JCF discussion: http://boards.theforce.net/threads/jedi-temples-and-sith-shrines.50026478/page-2

 

^^ Of course, there is something very strange about the underground complex. While both concrete (?) doorframes had been exposed to Dagobah's vegetation, one of these is practically free of any vegetation.

So does the underground complex truly exist (TCW disregarding) or is this a dreamlike vision of things about to be happening?

Because the angle of the doorframes resemble those of the Cloud City inner shaft control complex corridors rather a lot.

 

I was just about o post that Hija.

That does potentially lend some credence to the idea that the part of the cave Luke meats Vader in might not be intended to be "real" but a reflection of there coming actual confrontation. It could on the other hand just be ment as some kind of vague hint at the cave being man made and having a history possibly tied up with the darkside.

 

That is interesting, however, since the production of TESB had a lot of trouble and was over budget and over time. Perhaps they simply just redressed the Bespin set into a cave to save time and money instead of building a complete new set from scratch? Just remove the machinery bits, repaint, splatter some brown plaster and yard cuttings, and light it differently. In story, the cave may have taken the form of Luke's premonition of the upcoming battle with Vader and the danger of becoming like him. It is hard to know how much of the cave is real or vision / dream. The real cave may not look like anything what Luke (and we) see, that he only sees what he brought in with him. So the cave may have taken the vague form of the Bespin hallway because that is what Luke was foreseeing.