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Senate Let's Talk: Feminism

Discussion in 'Community' started by blubeast1237, Aug 1, 2014.

  1. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 1999
    Eh, I was talking more about optics and finding common ground, but I agree with your statement with regards to choice.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
  2. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    My solution would be:

    —build the idea into medical ethics and education on best practices that no elective abortions should be performed after 16-20 weeks, only those that are medically necessary to save the life or health of the mother, or in a situation in which the fetus has already died or will not live outside the womb. @Vaderize03 I’m not sure if this is already done.

    —prosecute the hell out of any unauthorized “practitioner” who performs abortions

    I can understand why some might not want a doctor who sees the life of a pregnant patient in danger to have to justify to some legal board or judge why he/she needs to perform an abortion. But I don’t think “elective abortions at any point in the pregnancy should be legally available for any reason or no reason” should be the standard either.

    And again, the solution is education and widely available birth control. No accidental pregnancies means few if any elective abortions at any stage.
     
  3. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 1999
    It pretty much is, yes. Most abortions are done via pill in the first trimester. It would be considered unethical to perform non-medically-necessary late-abortions; where it isn’t illegal by law, it tends to be tightly regulated by the hospitals and surgical centers that do perform them.

    And re: unauthorized practioners, I agree with you 100%.
     
  4. Sith_Sensei__Prime

    Sith_Sensei__Prime Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 22, 2000
    When trying to be part of the feminist movement goes wrong...

    Trudeau mocked for telling woman she should say 'peoplekind'
     
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  5. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2003
    yeah I saw that ^, it was funny .
     
  6. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Does this count as mansplaining?
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
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  7. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    "We like to say 'peoplekind,' as in 'I'm killing peoplekind in my relentless pursuit of petroleum extraction and export.'"

    Who the **** says "peoplekind" anyway? I thought the PC version was "humankind."
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
  8. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000

    I'm going to reply thoughtfully soon to the people who bothered to have thoughtful replies to me... But I first just wanted to, once again, point out that your mansplaining to me about how I, a woman who has thoughtfully engaged in many feminists topics in this thread for years, cannot be a feminist because I don't meet some dude's arbitrary definition of one... Well, it's precisely the kind of hypocrisy that sadly pushes some people away from wanting to lump themsleves in with feminism in the first place. You know for a fact that my objections have nothing to do with a woman's sexual freedom or her body, but has to do with my feelings about a separate life she carries. Yet you persist in telling me to shut up. Eh, too far.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2018
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  9. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 1999
    Some data to chew on.

    Interesting that support for Roe, and for at least keeping first trimester abortion legal, remains strong overall. I'd love to see how the polling breaks down by geographic region, specifically urban vs rural voters.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
  10. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    Helpfully, the NY Times had an op ed just last week about this exact topic and how much Democratic dedication to late-term abortions being legal has been a detriment to literally every other part of the Democratic platform. I would really like everyone who's been involved in this discussion to read it, because it says what I've been trying to say better than I can...

    One of the things it points out is that the Democratic platform is to allow abortions unrestricted through all 40 weeks of pregnancy.

    I point this out because many people in this discussion did not seem to realize that this was the Democratic platform, not a minority position. They may not know that the vast majority of Democrats just voted against a European-style bill that would have made abortions past 20 weeks illegal for doctors to perform unless the mother's life was in danger... Even though, as the article states, this is what the majority of their constituents actually support.

    I think a lot of people would acknowledge that Hillary Clinton and the Democratic party were at least partly to blame for Trump's election because of how out of touch they'd become on issues important to their base. But this article points out that many people voted for Trump solely because of the issue of judges... And they wouldn't need to do that if the national Democratic platform didn't include this staunch and, in my mind, absurd dedication to abortion being legal for any reason up to 40 weeks.

    I get that not many people actually have late term abortions, but not many people murder their newborn babies either. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be illegal. Again, as the article points out, and as several pro-choice people have said here already of themselves, most Americans believe lste term abortions should be illegal unless the mother's life or long term health are seriously at stake ...

    So why are Democrats alienating so many by insisting on a platform that staunchly opposes any restrictions on abortion (including restrictions on aborting babies only because they have Down Syndrome, which is straight up eugenics)?

    I don't need this to be a debate about abortion, because there's a thread for that. What I brought up is the fact that the Democratic party, and also the Women's March, have a hardline platform on abortion that is both out of line with voter views and, in my mind, extremely harmful to the movements as a whole. We have a man right here in this thread declaring that women who don't fall in line with this out of touch platform are not feminists at all, and not welcome. To me, this is very harmful to us women and our goals of equality.

    So please read this article and think about the implications. Because this is exactly what I wanted to discuss when I brought this up. And I get the impression that many self-proclaimed pro-choice Democrats here didn't seem to know that unrestricted late term abortions are considered a staunch part of a Democratic voting platform, and that the vast majority of reps are actually voting that way.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
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  11. Boba Nekhbet

    Boba Nekhbet Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 30, 2014
    The thing is that the Republican stance on abortion is just as extreme as the Democratic stance, and opposes abortion in all circumstances. In fact, it doesn't even acknowledge that there are circumstances where abortion is good for the health or well-being of the mother. From the Republican party platform:

    "We, however, affirm the dignity of women by protecting the sanctity of human life. Numerous studies have shown that abortion endangers the health and well-being of women, and we stand firmly against it."

    Republican legislation across the nation takes this even farther by blaming and punishing women for having miscarriages. Blaming the Democrats for screwing everything up by being too extreme on abortion doesn't make any sense when the alternate is an equally extreme position, and in fact there's no major party with a view that actually does reflect the middle-ground stance you're supporting.
     
  12. Luke02

    Luke02 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Most Republicans do not have a leg to stand on when it comes to abortion thanks to their Nazism about birth control. If they were pro birth control, their thoughts on abortion would be more relevant.
     
  13. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
  14. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2003
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  15. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    That's dreadful. If predators treat women like pieces of meat, they should be prosecuted. Hell, I'd travel over there for a march, if I must.
     
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  16. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
  17. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    I honestly thought that said "we got rid of some bald man"

    On a serious note, yes, I agree with the sentiment of the article. That is the problem with Hollywood and being dominated by the patriarchy - it normalises toxic attitudes and stereotypes. The article made a good point about Disney portraying women with small waists (and you wonder why we have an epidemic of eating disorders among young girls) and depicting abusive relationships as normal. If millions of people watch movies, which insists women are second class citizens, don't be surprised if a significant minority believe that's how society should work.

    And when it becomes cultural acceptable for the white male to be "the hero" and always "gets the girl in the end" in the movie, you create social tensions when the real world doesn't behave in that manner. This is why America has a huge social alienation problem with white, low to no education, adolescent males - real life is not Hollywood. This is the group, who tend to hold the most negative views to feminism, racial equality and liberalism, because being white and male means nothing. Yet, the movie industry insist on perpetuating cultural lies to defend the white patriarchy monopoly of Hollywood.

    If anything, Hollywood is pushing a cultural war by playing both sides of it other. It's all about the money *throws cash in the air and makes it rain*

    All of them are just barstards. Pure and simple. Hollywood might desire we believe they're behind this cultural change and pushing for more female representation, but that is just pure bull****. **** 'em. Start supporting independent or the foreign film industry.

    Okay, I lost track and went on a mini social justice warrior rant but my point, I think, is pretty clear. Hollywood is evil and we must burn it down.
     
  18. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012


    So, a long story short, numerous labour feminists groups were actually considering taking legal action to prevent a transgirl from standing on a all-women shortlists for Parliament. Traditional feminists do not see trans as 'real' women and have accused the transgender movements of hijacking feminism. I kid you not. This mini culture war goes back a few years (five to be exact), when a well known Guardian feminists writer said transwomen were "bed-wetters with bad wigs" and didn't understand anything about suffering.

    In the last 6 months or so, the British government has been pushing to promote transgender rights more in the UK and is changing the Gender Recognition Act 2004; a citizen can freely change their gender with state approval, once the act has been changed. Even though the reform hasn't happened yet, many trans individuals are beginning to venture down the self-declaring path. Many organisations in the UK, especially domestic violence shelters (transwomen were legally barred), have changed their rules on gender - even if the law is yet to be changed.

    Que Labour party allowing a self-declaring transwomen to stand

    https://order-order.com/2018/03/08/guardian-women-protest-owen-jones-even-spectator-feminist-us/
     
  19. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    correction:

    a citizen can free change their gender without state approval. Currently, a doctor's approval is needed.
     
  20. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Just how much inroad do transphobes seem to have within feminist movements? Cause I hate to say, but at least online TERFs seem to be everywhere.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  21. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    UK feminist movement, well the influential lot, are very middle class who think they are morally superior and their opinions are taken very seriously during general elections. If you want to find where the conservative women hang out in the UK, go to their meetings.
     
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  22. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I’m a card-carrying NOW member and fairly active both locally and statewide, and I have not met any TERFs nor did I see any at either of the local Women’s Marches. Anecdotal evidence being what it is.

    FWIW, as far as I’m concerned, transphobes are the same category of human scum as racists and misogynists and homophobes.
     
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  23. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    It's an interesting concept. However, I have engaged in free trauma counseling at a women's shelter once. She told me that most men are NOT bad. She said it is our responsibility to raise men to value the feminine within, as it were. I completely agree. Although some of my sisters are radical feminists who believe that a matriarchy would be better than a patriarchy, I, as usual, have to remind people that equality is the way to go.

    Generally speaking, that is right. Movies promote the idea that men are violent and that women are goddesses. Just look at Rey and Ren. Too black-and-white. Humans are nuanced, or we are shallow.
     
  24. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006


    Every feminist gets outed as a TERF eventually.
     
  25. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Beloved author? I call bull**** right there.