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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Senate Let's Talk: Feminism

Discussion in 'Community' started by blubeast1237, Aug 1, 2014.

  1. Obi Anne

    Obi Anne Celebration Mistress of Ceremonies star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 4, 1998
    Just a minor nitpick but Iceland is a Nordic country.
     
  2. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I stand corrected. With it being an island I honestly wasn’t sure.
     
  3. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Does this belong here? I think it kind of does:

    https://deadline.com/2018/06/terry-...-expendables-4-threatened-trouble-1202417462/

    "In testimony this morning before the Senate Judiciary Committee, Crews said Expendables producer Avi Lerner called his manager and asked that the actor to drop his case against Adam Venit in order to appear in the fourth installment of the action film.

    Asked By Sen. Amy Klobuchar asked Crews if he has a role in the sequel.

    “No. Simply because this same producer is under his own … investigation,” said Crews. “Abusers protect abusers — and this is one thing I had to decide, whether I was going to draw the line on. Am I going to be a part of this or am I gonna take a stand, and there are projects I had to turn down.”

    This is the other half of what the MeToo movement has enabled - it's good to see.
     
    SateleNovelist11 and Rew like this.
  4. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    My point was basically that the US has lots of problems with women's rights, but that this faulty survey putting us at #10 worst is incorrect.

    As a feminist, articles like that bother me, because they are sensationalist and they make the doubters of the feminist movement doubt even more. I don't want valid surveys or representations of women's issues in the US to be doubted because of some clickbait crap.

    As for MeToo, I think the fact that it exists and works (to an extent) to bring down perpetrators is actually a sign that the US is not as terribe for women as #10 worst in the world. At least here people's claims are starting to be taken seriously.

    And I absolutely love what Terry Crews is doing for the men who are victims of sexual abuse and harassment.
     
    SateleNovelist11, ShaneP and Jedi Ben like this.
  5. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I had a conversation with my 13-year-old son last night about consent, and part of that conversation was that it goes both ways—it is important that he get consent, but it is also important that he give it.

    As far as the survey—as I said, I should have looked more into the methodology before posting it and that was my fault, but in overall discussions about women’s rights and any comparisons to other countries, I would like to change the overall conversation from “Are we better than these countries that have terrible records?” to “Where do we want to be in women’s equality, are there countries that do better on that front and how can we get to where those countries are?”
     
  6. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    I 100% agree with you, and I don't hold posting the article against you at all.

    Glad you're having these conversations with your son. You are a great mom and a great lady overall :)
     
  7. crazyewok

    crazyewok Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 27, 2017

    It's a easy mistake to make. Statistics are easily misleading even for me who old job revolved around it.

    And it's not just the US with this metoo scandal.......its blown the lid off a lot of dirty stuff that went down in the UK too.
     
  8. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Meanwhile, this new book is coming out:

    Mona Charen doesn’t like the sexual revolution and blames feminism for it

    From this opinion piece:

    “In part, that’s how we know that the sexual revolution (at least the one that feminists dream of) hasn’t fully arrived: The standards that we argue are crucial to its success—namely, that women are able to approach sex and everything else in their lives just as men do without being demeaned, raped or otherwise punished—haven’t been met, and in most instances, are considered laughable by our society.

    Feminists haven’t been cheerleaders for rape culture or the hostility between men and women or any of the other awful things that Charen is blaming feminism for. Rather, it was the panicked patriarchal response to feminism—and men’s need to remain in control of women—that birthed, bred and continued to nurture these things.”

    As a counterpoint, here is the National Review column on the book:

    Mona Charen vs feminists

    This one gets quite a bit wrong:

    Feminists have not argued that men and women are always exactly the same. What we have argued against is stereotyping or generalizing. Don’t assume that all women are nurturing and people-oriented. Don’t assume that no men are nurturing and that all men like working with their hands rather than working with people.

    It also assumes that we can “never” close the wage gap. That’s bull****. Even if we want to play along with the argument that women *always* prefer “nurturing” professions and that men *always* prefer STEM professions (which is absolutely ridiculous), the problem could be solved by paying the “nurturing” professions what they are worth. It would also help if people didn’t demonize men, accusing them of being “feminized” or some bull**** like that, when they want to enter a “nurturing” profession.

    Also, paid parental leave for both parents, and don’t assume that every woman of childbearing age is going to take time off for maternity leave at some point and therefore send her resume lower in the pile.
     
  9. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    Absolutely agree. I love when people say, "Well the real reason for a wage gap is that women tend to choose professions that don't pay as much, like teaching." Because it gives me a chance to say, "Have you ever considered that the reason those jobs pay less in the first place is because they're thought of as 'women's work', and therefore not valued highly?"
     
  10. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Yes, it’s CNN and the headline is a bit melodramatic but this is a good opinion piece:

    Trump’s worst enemy: middle-aged mothers

    [face_whistling]

    And before anyone says “except for the ones who voted for him,” the article partially addresses that as well.
     
  11. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian Future Films Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
  12. Ava G.

    Ava G. Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2016
    You answered your own question.

    The best storytelling turns our everyday problems into epic drama that inspires. Women's issues were more overt in the past, and more subtle in the modern day.

    See the logic?
     
  13. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian Future Films Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    Still doesn’t go to explain why the sequel is set in the 80’s (as opposed to modern-day), or Capt. Marvel is set in the 90’s (as opposed to shortly pre-Iron Man) or Black Widow being a prequel...
     
    Ava G. and SateleNovelist11 like this.
  14. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    I thought they did? Plus WW has been in modern-day Justice League, and CM will be in Avengers 4. Captain Marvel, particularly, has to explain why she's been gone long enough that none of the Avengers have heard of her. If she disappeared shortly before Iron Man then it have come up.
     
    Juliet316 likes this.
  15. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

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    Apr 27, 2005
    And with Black Widow there's more creative room with a prequel to delve into her past, than as opposed to the present when we still don't know if the character as we know her now will survive Avengers 4.
     
    SateleNovelist11 likes this.
  16. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    I found this interesting. https://www.racked.com/2018/4/25/17...-hair-mantis-black-widow-gamora-scarlet-witch

    The author explains that female characters, such as Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, Mantis, and Gamora, wearing their hair down, as opposed to arranging them with ponytails or at least buns, is sexist. Interestingly, a shaved heads, ponytails, etc. apparently signify bisexuality and/or flamboyant personalities. What do you think?

    Personally, I do find it a little strange to see so many women without ponytails and buns in superhero films. I named myself after a cisgender lady who fairly often arranges her hair in a bun. During university, I did notice that more of the women on the teams had ponytails than the sorority members. Not sure what that says about them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
  17. Obi Anne

    Obi Anne Celebration Mistress of Ceremonies star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 4, 1998
    As a woman who has grown up doing all kinds of sports I've always felt that it looked stupid that the boys/men ran around with their long hair free (and totally in the way) while all girls/women put their hair in a practical ponytail so that it's out of the way. Compare male soccer players with female and you can see the difference.
     
  18. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Yep. I’ve always kept an extra set of elastic bands in my car or my purse for that reason, except for the brief period of time when I was 16, had short hair and played soccer. No way would I or will I be caught without something to tie my hair back with, for any sport or exercise.
     
  19. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

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    Apr 27, 2005
    If it helps though I haven't seen the full film, it seems like the character of Hope in Ant-Man and the Wasp puts her hair in a ponytail when she is in uniform as the Wasp.
     
  20. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    I saw that earlier with my eponym (cis lady after whom I named myself). We laughed ourselves to tears.

    It will be interesting to see what challenges Wonder Woman will face in the next film. I read that a writer thought that the 1980s were when things were finally just fine for women. I was like, "What?" Equality between the sexes and genders is still a journey. I'm happy that women have more rights than we once did in various countries. But as long as full equality is not permitted everywhere, and as long as there are women suffering oppression anywhere, then that hurts everyone. I'm glad it's less acceptable to shame those who suffer sexual violence and human trafficking. We most oppose all forms of domination and oppression.
     
  21. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

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    Apr 27, 2005
    Patty Jenkins is directing the sequel (like she did the first WW), so there's hope that the 80s won't be perfect for women as some (apparently) think.
     
  22. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 10, 2015
    True that. I mean, the era of Reagan? Ew.
     
  23. Ava G.

    Ava G. Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 7, 2016
    I think we maybe should stop handing out guns and ammo to anti-feminists and then complaining when they shoot up the place.

    A comment under the article:

    Not sexist. Nothing to see here.
     
  24. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Women, like men, can wear their hair how they damn well please.

    Obviously female movie characters are not real people (a point I have often made in New Films about Rey making her own choices—she doesn’t, Abrams and Johnson make them for her) but impracticality of hair styles is not limited to female characters.
     
  25. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    Yeah, I agree with Ava. I worked on shows where male characters took off hazmat suit helmets in times where no one actually would... Mostly because it was better to see their faces than to be totally accurate.

    Super heroes are in a fictional world. While I don't think we should be sticking only to ultra sexy short skirts for female super heroes, we must admit that all superhero costumes have some impracticality. And that male superheroes have costumes that accentuate their muscles and general physique.

    I see it more like you're supposed to be looking at a Greek statue rather than a real person. That's basically what superheroes are. Mythical gods for our era.

    I don't care what way their hair is.