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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Senate Let's Talk: Feminism

Discussion in 'Community' started by blubeast1237, Aug 1, 2014.

  1. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    The problem here is you're a well-adjusted person with a reasonable, moderate approach to stuff, but the way this area gets reported is nothing of the kind and I suspect this is a backlash against certain types of reporting, with lots of sensible people caught in the cross fire, with the lines being:
    • The judgmental fit person: Variations on the theme of - I'm fit because I work hard and am great, you're a lazy fattie. These tend to be those who were good at sport at school and never had any real difficulty in doing anything.
    • The perfect mum image: You've seen 'em - How X Lost Her Baby Flab In 2 Weeks! The implicit message being if you don't do this, you're crap.
    • The timeless image: Women are not supposed to age, men? We get distinguished with age and are allowed beer bellies!
    Probably a few others that could be thrown in too, all of which are the likely triggers for this new stuff which is a rejection of trying to attain this perfect image that's bombarded onto women from a hostile media.

    The problem is extreme positions - and I'd see what the media are pushing to be one - tends to trigger equally strong reactions and counters, which looks to be the case here.

    (What mystifies me is why so many women clearly buy the mags that push this crap in the first place - if all those women stopped buying, the merry-go-round would come to a squealing, grinding halt.)
     
  2. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2005
    But it's not just the magazines - it's often movies and TV shows and the culture itself. It's a self feeding loop. It's the examples of what kind of women are, for lack of a better word, exalted. It's models on the covers, mainly good looking women in the media (and the less so are usually the fat or clumsy, can't get a man role - at least until they pretty up by ridding themselves of the bad haircut, glasses, whatever).

    The positive portrayals are of the "ideal" and if you're less ideal, you're less positively portrayed.
     
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  3. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I agree with both of you. One example that comes to mind is an advertisement for a personal training service in which the personal trainer wearing bike shorts and a sports bra, looking very fit, poses with her two toddlers, with a caption that reads "What's your excuse?" Um...the "excuse" is that not everyone works as a personal trainer for a living?

    There is also a stroller ad right now featuring a mother pushing her child in the stroller while jogging in a bikini. She looks fantastic. And the ad is getting backlash, which is ridiculous. It's an ad for a stroller. I personally wear normal running clothes but if she wants to run in a bikini--why does it matter?

    I subscribed to Shape magazine years ago and it always had these fitness stories that are supposed to be inspiring, with people discussing what they did to lose a lot of weight and get in shape; most of them even mentioned what their "food weaknesses" are, which is supposed to be helpful. Here's the problem: all the stories described two hours a day or more of exercise. Realistically most people can't exercise that much because of job and family requirements. And not everyone has the money to join a gym.

    That's why I like the Couch to 5K and Map My Run training apps; half an hour three times a week is much more realistic. The triathlon training plan I downloaded a few months ago also has a realistic plan for busy people, although it's more than three days a week.

    On some level I understand the backlash, but it irritates me because it's not helpful. "Why can't I have a third slice of pizza?" You can. Shut up and eat the damn pizza if that's what you want. And if you are OK wearing elastic waistband pants, wear elastic waistband pants, but a complaint that you are no longer "the norm" for 40-year-olds is too whiny to be taken seriously as an adult.

    I think media moves like featuring a curvy model on the cover of Women's Running Magazine are great, very positive and encouraging, does a lot to counter judgmental fit types. Such moves are much better than "I should be able to sit on my ass because I'm middle-aged and middle-aged people weren't fit when I was a kid!"

    I'm rambling a bit here and beyond that I don't have a good solution; only the comment that neither "if you don't lose your baby weight in two weeks, you suck!" nor "stop exercising and looking good when you're over 40, you're making me feel bad and I just want to eat ice cream and not exercise!" are helpful.
     
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  4. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    True, but save for the covers, the mags do require a person to actively buy them whereas TV is more a passive background source of the same crap which is why I saw them as having that extra edge as it were.

    As to it not being helpful, of course it isn't but those who write the articles that comprise that position likely see no benefit in being smarter - controversy gets you attention and page clicks in a way being smart, moderate and positive doesn't.

    I suppose, in the end, the only option is to say: Screw it all, a plague on both your houses! I'll work it out myself.

    (But that does require a certain level of bloody-mindedness!)
     
  5. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Let's face it, one heck of a lot of Americans are technically overweight (notice I'm not saying fit or unfit). We're a huge part of the population. I hike and backpack often so I'd call myself quite fit, but recently I technically was "obese" not just overweight.

    My sis-in-law, a RN, sent me a fitbit recently and suggested I check into Myfitnesspal.com. I tracked - really tracked - my food for a few weeks and found out that even careful me was eating a way low amount of sodium and more sugar - sugar conscious me- was even aware of. Just a few craisins on my salad lunch blew that stat.

    So stories can have some use. Shaming doesn't.
     
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  6. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
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  7. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Hot ****ing damn yes

    "Do you have any idea what year it is? Did you fall down, hit your head and think you woke up in the 1950s or 1890s? Because I simply cannot believe that in the year 2015, the United States would be spending its time trying to defund women's health centers. You know, on second thought, maybe I shouldn't be surprised. The Republicans have had a plan for years to strip away women's rights to make choices over their own bodies."

    And before anyone goes into the "selling baby parts!" and "abortion manufacturers!" crap...the "baby part sales" story was debunked by Snopes, and only 3 percent of Planned Parenthood services involve abortions.

    More on that here:

    Planned Parenthood hoax revealed
     
  8. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Add to the fact that those videos were done by an arm of Operation Rescue...
     
  9. mavjade

    mavjade Former Manager star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 10, 2005
    This trying to defund Planned Parenthood thing infuriates me.
    Someone on my Facebook posted a picture with one of WV's senators saying that he planned on voting to defund Planned Parenthood and there were a ton of likes and positive comments on the picture. (And he's a democrat... though in name only.)

    If anyone needs Planned Parenthood, it's West Virginia with their HUGE teenage pregnancy rates and the amount of poverty, so I don't know how anyone from there could be for defunding it, though it didn't shock me. But it once again reminded me why I left and am glad I did.
     
  10. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Ya know, it's stuff like this that is starting to make me irrationally despise all Republicans.
     
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  11. EmpireForever

    EmpireForever Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 15, 2004
    They don't even get federal funding for abortions except in special cases. (http://www.factcheck.org/2011/04/planned-parenthood/).

    It's unbelievable. Either these elected officials are dangerously ignorant or they're being irresponsibly manipulative of their constituency. It's sickening.
     
  12. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    What's irrational about it?
     
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  13. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    I dunno. It's not good to hate a faction of people? But then again, most if not all of them are loopy.
     
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  14. Beezer

    Beezer Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 5, 2013
    [​IMG]
    Oh, just maybe that a hatred of an entire group of people acting in good faith based on their personal beliefs is pretty much the textbook definition of bigotry, intolerance and close mindedness?

    You will never find a more hateful group of closed-minded, intolerant bigots than you will by looking at the American left, as evidenced above. Any diversity of thought and diversity of opinion must be shouted down, bullied and silenced. HItler would be proud.
     
  15. Point Given

    Point Given Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2006
    Yeah Hitler would be proud of liberals and people who trend liberal.

    Do you hear yourself speak?
     
  16. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Pffffttt. Of course being asked to treat women equally is exactly the same as being sent to a concentration camp.
     
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  17. EmpireForever

    EmpireForever Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 15, 2004
    They're acting on hearsay and fear mongering. In good faith? They want to defund an entire program because they don't want people to get abortions? Planned Parenthood prevents abortions. What part of this whole crazy idea is acting as part of their beliefs?

    This is the same argument people make about welfare. "well but a tiny percentage of people are defrauding it so we should cut funding even though thousands and thousands of people are counting on it and it is doing a world of good".

    Okay. Some people were unlawfully selling baby parts illegally. This is not cause to cut funding for a program which does not even receive funding for the thing that people are upset about.
     
  18. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    LOL this guy

    I would have asked him which "other organizations that do full women's health" he would commit Planned Parenthood funds towards, just to see if he could name one and what he named.

    Beyond that his speech was a full on 'I'm not sexist, I love my wife/mother/daughters.'

    Thank you for sharing. And women who need birth control but do not have husbands and fathers with Congressional insurance benefits...? They're out of luck I guess?

    And this cartoon.

    Spot. On.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Ah yes. The whole "I'm not sexist...but" BS.
     
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  20. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001

    You know that if you lived in Germany int he 30s, you'd be a proud National Socialist right?

    Not because you give off an impression of rabid Jew-hatred, but because that's what conservatives did at the time. Joined the conservative party, swallowed the nationalist pill, and went nuts.

    I know you wanted to use your limited prose to illustrate how you feel your right to protect future Republicans from being born is being stripped away from you, it's just a shame you chose to do this by using a ham-fisted historical allegory that actually does more harm than good for your post. I also applaud your efforts to make sure unwanted children have the best shot at life by adopting kids born to single parents who have been denied an abortion. Your hypocrisy is commendably absent - how many adoptions this year? 20? 30?

    Hard work makes you free.
     
  21. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    This is really, really good. I felt like it was fair to religion and did not condemn religious people as a whole; many--maybe even most--do not deserve condemnation. What it did was point out the issues with strict fundamentalist religious beliefs and sexism.

    How being raised Catholic made me a better feminist atheist
     
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  22. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    That's very similar to my religious upbringing. We were a family of Catholics until switching to the Episcopalian church in 2008. Now everyone in my family is an atheist except for me.
     
  23. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I was raised Lutheran but I pretty much could have written that piece.
     
  24. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    I wish the media would refer to it as the debunked story about Planned Parenthood.

    Well, they say that some denominations train people to be atheists and feminists, and Methodists are among them. Great article. Thanks for sharing.
     
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  25. Ewok Poet

    Ewok Poet Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2014

    Looks like I missed a lot. W-what did cause this response? *reads*