Letting Qui-Gons be Qui-Gons: A Renamed Characterization/Discussion Thread

Hmmm. OK...maybe we could save a challenge for later.

Does anyone want to suggest a discussion topic?


(btw, this is f-o-w...I have a new username )

 

Okay, possible topic (I'll let Sarah approve it, O Maker Of Thread): it's often said that Qui-Gon was the kind of Jedi that Jedi were supposed to be . . . at least, so I've heard. That most Jedi of the time failed in being compassionate enough, or other faults - Anakin's mother, with individuals that don't matter in the big scheme of things.

Do you think Qui-Gon was the kind of Jedi that the Jedi of his time period were supposed to be like? Following the Force instead of the Senate, and so on?

*hopes this is good topic*

 

This was always my theory on the Jedi before they fell. A thousand years prior to the fall of the Jedi they faced the Sith in a terrible battle. Following the EU storyline they were allowed to love and marry before then but afterwards you don't see it with the exception of Corran Horn's family line.

That kind of freaked the Jedi out to put in it none to elequent terms. Thus the harsher guidelines. The didn't want to risk the fact of loosing yet another Jedi to the dark side so they put these guidelines down that at the time seemed all good and proper but in the long run end up bringing down the Jedi.

It was always my belief that if there had been more Jedi like Qui-Gon and the latter Ben Kenobi, that the Jedi might not have fallen. The lost their touch with the rest of the galaxy and so when the purges began no one was willing to step forward to stop them. Anyway here's my thoughts.

 

It is a good topic

Y'know, we haven't met any other Living Force Jedi, have we? Obi isn't, Yoda isn't, Dooku..er...probably isn't Qui's the only one. I think if there had been more like him, the Jedi might have...well, they might not have avoided the purge, but they might have stood a better chance...

 

I believe that Yoda was considered balanced between the Living and the Unifying Force but I could be mistaken. Qui-Gon's live-in-the-moment philosophy could get him into trouble but he did seem to always end up on his feet - well until Naboo.

I believe that the Jedi's actions - interacting with the upper echelons, not allowing attachments, taking the children at an early age and not letting the parents see them - all gave them an air of otherworldlyness that ultimately came back to bite them.



And now, has everyone seen the trailer for the new movie - Love Actually? Liam is in it (not in the leading role but with a substantial part to play). He looks wonderful without the beard and long hair (although I prefer the hair myself). It's getting good reviews as well. Unfortunately, it won't be out until Nov....

 

I believe that the Jedi's actions - interacting with the upper echelons, not allowing attachments, taking the children at an early age and not letting the parents see them - all gave them an air of otherworldlyness that ultimately came back to bite them.

I agree. It occurred to me that perhaps if more Jedi were like Qui-Gon, this wouldn't be the case . . . after all, Qui-Gon felt that Anakin should be trained despite his past. The Council only agreed after Anakin was shown to be more than a former slave boy, along with Obi-Wan's insistence.

Would the Force guide the Jedi, if they listened to it's Living qualities more, to be more compassionate and connected to the beings? Perhaps the Jedi would have survived better had this been the case (though if connected to the Living Force more so than the Unified, it's not like they could see it coming . . .).

I wonder if the Unified Force caused Jedi to be more detached than was wise and necessary, because it is such a long view. Not necessarily that the Unified Force said 'take away kids from their parents', but that not being strongly connected to individuals made them make mistakes?

So . . . I guess I think that having more Jedi like Qui-Gon might have saved the Jedi, but not because they were tipped over to the Living Force, rather than balanced, but because people might have cared for them more - which, regardless, they had no way of knowing (because if the Unified Force doesn't show what will happen, being more aware of the Living Force hardly will). If that makes sense.

I get the feeling I'm not very good at this . . .

 

At the risk of opening up a huge can of worms... the Jedi don't "take children away from their parents." The parents have a CHOICE. They CAN choose NOT to send their child for Jedi training, and many don't. And for the EU, at least, there is evidence to show that the children ARE allowed to see their parents. Not every weekend or every month, necessarily. But various books mention Jedi as having touch with their families, even if their ties to the Order are stronger.

(Makes sense to me. I can see myself off on a mission and getting a phone call: "Honey? I hear you're going to Naboo. I don't know, there's a big invasion fleet there, I really don't think you'd be very safe. Maybe you should just come home for a while, just 'til this blows over. And be careful with those lightsabers, you can cut an arm off with those things..." Ah, mothers.) Ooo, humor bunny...

Right. I'm absolutely not debating this particular topic any more; I've done it in 3 different forums now and I am sick of it. Not to mention that I am convinced I'm boring everyone else.

I'll try to think of a more Qui-Gon topic... I still maintain that any man with hands like that is probably a fabulous cook!

 

True, perhaps I worded it wrong . . . that's not what I really meant. What if you're not allowed to love your family because it's attachment? Jedi seem to want to solve this problem by not really letting the Jedi see their families unless there is a compelling reason to do so (such as the family being famous/powerful).

I guess I was talking more about the 'a Jedi shall not love' thing. No attachments, and etc.

And the EU isn't terribly trustworthy. It says a number of different things on the subject, including that knowing your mother is very dangerous (Luminara Unduli, 'The Approaching Storm'), or that you may sometimes see your family when you're very young (Obi-Wan, JA).

Anyway, my question still remains - more Jedi like Qui-Gon good or bad thing?

 

Maybe there are more Jedi like Qui-Gon and we just haven't seen them? We don't know who he liked to pal around with (in the purist sense), and the EU I usually take with a grain of salt.

I guess we just don't know enough about the Jedi, really... I mean, the whole "Living Force vs. Unifying Force" IS an EU thing...

I told dianethx I'd post the humor bunny, so if you're bored, it's a viggie in the Saga page...

 

Maybe there are more Jedi like Qui-Gon and we just haven't seen them?

True, maybe. But isn't Qui-Gon considered to be something of a rebel (if you'd only obey the rules, blah blah - Obi-Wan), and doesn't he insist he follows the will of the Force? If both are true (and who knows, maybe they aren't - Anakin, anyone? ), that implies that not very many follow the Force the way Qui-Gon does.

Can't you give a link? [/complains] *goes to find humor viggie*

 

I always got the impression that Dooku was more living Force, caught up in the moment. From reading the novelization of attack of the clones, and the script. Dooku was supposed to be very much like Qui-Gon, except he took it beyond the limits. Let that lead him to the Dark Side. But of course in the Legacy of the Jedi Qui-Gon seemed to never like Dooku, which I find odd. Mr. Empathy not loving his Master? It just didn't mesh well with me. I think they had a great relationship.

About the family attachments. I've been writing a story that's beyond the NJO about why it is a good idea to have attachments. The Jedi of the old order some what deluded themselves. No matter what you do, you become attached, and ignoring that attachment is not only harmful but impossible. Obi-Wan's reaction after Qui-Gon's death proves that. Perhaps if the Jedi had prepared their apprentices and Knights for the breaking of such attachments, they wouldn't be nearly so dangerous. Visiting their parents, I think would give them insight into who they are and offer them the opportunity to choose whether or not this was what was best for them.

I'll end my mublings now.

 

Why end your mumblings when they're intelligent? Good points, all. And your remark about Dooku gave me a plot bunny.

 

Who's heard the news yet? Apparently no Qui in Episode III.

 

That's not a spoiler, is it? *hasn't heard*

That's sad. Makes me wonder how they're going to explain his voice in Ep. II, though.

 

Er...is it a spoiler? If it is, just scream at me and I'll edit it or something...

It was only in a newspaper or something though, so I suppose it might not be true...

 

Hehehe. I doubt it's a spoiler, seeing as it's in a newspaper. What newspaper? Does anyone else know if it's officially released info? I don't go to SW.com or TFN's frontpage (that often).

[edit] Look what I found on TFN: Neeson said he expects nothing different when Episode III, in which he is not involved, is released in 2005 to complete the prequel trilogy.

So he's not involved. I wonder if Qui-Gon will still play a small role, though . . . didn't they use his voice from TPM for AOTC?

 

Upping because I thought of a new discussion topic...


We've done flaws, now what d'ya think is Qui's best quality?

 

That he's so handsome . . .









That he cares about the little guy, I suppose - that he doesn't bow down to politics or tradition (aka, the whole Anakin situation). After all, rescuing Anakin probably wasn't the wisest thing, politically. If Anakin is rescued, and that's permissable, why don't they rescue the rest of the slaves? And so on. I always thought part of the reason Qui-Gon so quickly said Obi-Wan was ready for his trials and tried to take Anakin as his Padawan is because he thought Obi-Wan could take care of himself, and he knew Anakin couldn't. He was very concerned about Anakin's welfare, and less so with the politics (or feelings) of the situation, I think.

That's slightly off-topic, but whatever.

 

That he cares about individual people. I've never been one that believes that laws and governments change people, it's the one on one interaction, changing each person at a time, that will work. Another reason that I thought more Jedi like Qui-Gon would be helpful. Not that every Jedi should be, because things must always be balanced and every situation cannot be handled in the same way.

But he took the time to find the good in people and you can't help anyone find the light when you can't see it in them.

 

And his resolve. The thing that impressed me, when I first saw TPM (and had gotten over the shock of learning that Liam Neeson had a role!) was when they went after the Neimodians in the control room, and the blast doors slammed down. Qui-Gon stepped back, gave the doors a look, then jammed his lightsaber right in. And all I could think was wow...

He is definitely the champion of the little guy, and I am betting if he'd lived he would have found some way to go back for Shmi.

 

I'd have to agree that he cared about the individual more than his own life. He put JarJar ahead of his mission at Otah Gunga, saving him from death whereas Obi-Wan was intent on doing his duty first. Actually, they made a wonderful partnership - one for the individual and one for the larger picture - and balanced each other's strengths and weaknesses. Unfortunately, for the rest of the Jedi, there weren't enough Qui-Gons to go around.

I also have to agree with Mistress_Renata that the scene where Qui-Gon plunged his lightsaber into the door was superb. I saw that and went wow - a real Jedi Knight!

 

Okay, I saw Love Actually last night. All I can say is see this film for the work that Liam Neeson did, if for nothing else. He was absolutely superb as the widowed step-father trying to help his stepson talk to a girl the kid has a crush on. Liam also gave a stellar performance balancing trying to deal with his own grief, that of his stepson and yet trying to get on with his life.
Apart from that, the movie is wonderful on all areas. It deals with 9 or 10 different aspects of love with intertwining story lines - so there is forbidden, unrequited, father/son, love from afar, cheating and just plain silly. Hugh Grant (whom I ordinarily don't like) was terrific as the Prime Minister of England; Colin Firth was wonderful as the jilted husband who finds love in the most unlikely of places; Emma Thompson as the wife dealing with infidelity of her husband was terrific.
And the other sidestories were just as poignant. Go see this film!! I was laughing and crying at the same time!

One point however. It is a well-deserved R rating. There is frontal nudity (one of the stories is about porn actors - no, it's not what you would expect and is rather sweet) but they are filming the porn movie as they are falling in love. It also has some bad language (some of which is appropriate to the story, some is not). So just be aware of it before you go.

I plan on seeing it again and buying the DVD the day it comes out!

 

Okay...today I finally came up with a somewhat decent challenge.


Apparently the semi-spoiler news I posted back up there ^ is not, in fact, true (yay! ).

The challenge is...write the Qui-Obi reunion scene (I actually did one a while back, but it's not too good...)

What do you guys think?

 

Sounds cool to me, I'll be working on one. Although I've already kind of done one where Obi-Wan doesn't welcome him that kindly.

 

Cool idea. I think it would be neat to get a blue ghostie Qui in the next movie, although I must say that him not being in AOTC was rather disappointing. I wasn't a hugely knowledgeable fan back when I saw AOTC for the first time, but even I thought we'd see him, based on Ben's appearance in ESB alone. I know his voice is there but the part with "No!" doesn't sound like him to me, although the captions says it is. (To me, it sounds like Yoda. ?)

I actually wrote a scene like that already for an episode 3 story I wrote. Maybe I'll see if I can rework it a bit.