Letting Qui-Gons be Qui-Gons: A Renamed Characterization/Discussion Thread

What??? If that's the case, then I'm getting tickets! Liam was superb in The Crucible on Broadway. Even if he can't sing (hey Richard Harris can't sing either), then I don't care. He would be a truly wonderful Arthur.

Where did you hear this rumor? I tried to find out on some of the Liam sites and they have nothing....

 

For some weird reason I can't find our page 6. *puzzled* So I'm just posting this in the hope it'll work...

Great discussions everyone!

 

RUMOR is that Liam Neeson will be taking on the role of Arthur in a Broadway revival of Camelot! Ending the age-old question, "can Qui-Gon sing?" For that I would walk to New York, let alone fly! It's just about the only standard musical that I can stand watching. (I suffer severe disconnect when people start bursting into song. And no, it is not the natural jealousy of a woman who can't carry a tune in a bucket.) Of course they'll have to work incredibly hard to find a Lancelot that will make me believe Guinevere would betray Arthur for him. I think there might be 3 actors in the world currently that I would believe it possible. First Knight's casting sure didn't convince me. Although, to be honest, I didn't watch it so perhaps it might have been convincing had I done so...

And it does seem to be an official rumor.

Wow. Gotta start saving my deci-creds.

Renata Got your pm, agree pretty much. Still see it as bad characterization more than anything though. And who knows, maybe we'll all turn out to be wrong about Qui-Gon's character and in EP3 learn that he actually would have joined Dooku and it won't be because that will turn out to be the "right" side.

Apparently I've scared everyone else off again...

KD

 

If Liam is in Camelot, I am so there!!! When I saw Liam in the Crucible, I had center 3rd row seats - perfect for viewing the stunning man and he was stunning! He is probably one of the best stage actors I've ever seen. Since I live in NJ, it isn't hard to go to Broadway to see the play either. I also happen to like Camelot as a musical (sorry KD, but I like musicals in general). Now, what person could play Lancelot??? And Guinevere???

 

dianethx, I will meet you wherever Amtrak arrives in NY. We'll pick a date. Seriously.

Addendum: My roommate & I agree that only Hugh Jackman (who was in musical "Boy from Oz") would make a credible Lancelot. She saw the show, says he can sing...

We're stumped on Guin, though.

 

Renata Okay, no problem. I figure there will be a few of us. We have a group in NJ who really like Liam...

Now, I'm sure it's been done to death but why do I keep thinking of Qui-Gon as a world-weary Arthur, Obi-Wan as young Lancelot, Padme as his ward Guinevere (rather than wife) and Anakin as Mordred?

 

Oh thank god, Diane, I thought I was the only one thinking along those lines. I'm glad to see someone else shares my delusions. There's a wonderful story by Derisa_Ollahmin called (I believe) Traitorous Knight that a crossover between Star Wars and the Arthurian legend. Absolutely amazing work, unfortunately she's never finished it. I keep hoping.

Incidentally, Diane, I would be very interested in seeing your take on that crossover...

Cheers,

Shaindl

 

dianethx, I will meet you wherever Amtrak arrives in NY. We'll pick a date. Seriously.
Can I come too? I'll have to come from the airport but I am still soooo there. I would love to see Liam Neeson on stage. Everything I have seen him in he has been so good. I miss good theater. I tried our local theater group which gets quite glowing reviews and well... Um... Lets just say I only did season tickets that once. I'm only guessing but I'm thinking we're looking at a fall start? Dianethx as the NJ resident is going to stay on top of this story for us right?

My roommate & I agree that only Hugh Jackman (who was in musical "Boy from Oz") would make a credible Lancelot.
That would be one of my few picks although I'm not so sure about the purity angle. I don't actually know anything about current NY theater actors though so I couldn't really come up with any that don't also do film. Guinevere is very hard though even if I let myself think about film actresses. Emma Thompson is probably too old, unfortunately. I do think she could make me believe almost anything. Ashley Judd? I have no idea why I thought of her.

Incidentally, Diane, I would be very interested in seeing your take on that crossover...
Me too.

KD

 

Me three.

 

aha - I found out why I thought of Ashley Judd. She's in Cat on a Hot Tin Roof right now on Broadway. I had heard that but apparently sublimated it. I think her work in Eye of the Beholder is what made me think of her for some reason. No idea why. And, I've no idea what kind of notices she is getting in Cat on a Hot Tin Roof. Maybe we should send Dianethx to check her out for us.

(btw, Dianethx, my local little branch library currently has about 22,000 books I think. Which makes me think I might have more than I think I do. If I find I can't sleep some night soon I'm going to count books instead of sheep and see what I end up with.)

To get back to Qui-Gon for a moment... For those here reading HaiGan's Through a Glass Darkly Buffy/SW crossover; what do you think about her Qui-Gon's action vis-a-vis the noises down the alley in the 12/31/03 post? (Don't want to give any more spoilers than I have already.) Struck me as out of character unless one assumes he could tell the true nature of all of the parties involved some how. What do you think? I'm certain she will have an excellent reason. I'm just trying to figure out what it is. Perhaps I should speculate there rather than here.

KD

 

Shaindl Thanks so much for telling me about Derisa's work. It was absolutely wonderful but she stopped writing it! Darn.

As for me doing an Arthurian legend take....errr, Diane runs screaming away. I doubt very much that I will ever write another long fic again. It's just too hard for me. Of course, that plot bunny is very appealing. I love Arthurian legends, even went to a lot of the sites in Britain that are supposedly based on his life. Love Mary Stewart's Merlin series (my favorite of her work) and have read a lot of different takes on the Arthur legend. Plus I'm a big fan of Romano-British history. No, no, NO! But thanks for the vote of confidence!

Sarah See above - NO! But thanks.

KD See above - NO! But thanks.

I'll keep an eye out for the Camelot revival and Liam's role in it. And I will let you all know as soon as I know! I loved Liam when I saw him on stage and can't wait to see him again.

Funny, I also thought of Emma Thompson as Guinevere but she is too old for the role. It should be interesting to see her as Professor Trewlawny (sp?) in HP 3.
Kiera Knightley might be good as a fragile, young Guinevere but not as a strong-willed Queen Guinevere. Hummmm....

As for the book count, you'd be surprised at how many books you can pack into a small space, especially if they are paperbacks. I'm sure you have more than you think!

As for HaiGen's Buffy thing, I don't usually read crossovers. I really like her writing style but just couldn't get into Qui-Gon and Obi fighting demons from Sunnydale. I did read the post but I think that I shouldn't really make any comments here. You might want to PM her with your comments.

 

Well, roomie & I discussed Catherine Zeta-Jones, but thought she was a bit...robust for Guin. We think someone more delicate, with a will of iron, but Natalie & Keira are just SO young. And has to have some SERIOUS singing. Someone late 20s-early 30s?

Emma would have been great, and she's only mid-30s, I thought? I confess, I had the flaky mom from Absolutely Fabulous mentally cast as Trelawney, though.

RE: Buffy, I thought about that, KD, but then I wondered if the fragile state the General is in, not to mention the burden of two horses might have held him back?

 

Replying to Knight_Dilettante's question to me earlier on...
Jedi_Kenobi80 (sorry, I couldn't remember which were caps) (that's okay) has some interesting insights into this considering where I thought those books were aimed (Why, thank you! ) and I am particularly struck at the moment by his sig - the "tone poem" yes? Yep.

Anyway, about the whole Liam-being-on-Broadway-thing...wow, King Arthur? Him? Awesome!!! About the Guinevere thing...haha, it'll be sweet if Jennifer Lopez got that part. She can sing...and act. And she's pretty hot. But she's not one to go on Broadway...sigh...

 

Diane,

You can't blame a girl for trying...

However, if you ever do decide you want to take a crack at it, and instead of doing it all yourself, you decide to look for a co-writer, let me know...

Wish I was still in the east so I could join you in New York. If you all end up going to see Liam, you'll have to let me know how it is. And so I can be supremely jealous.

Cheers,

Shaindl

 

This is such a great thread - and I have to find it just as I am dissapearing into lurkdom. So many interesting comments have been made about everybody's most controversial Jedi.. So many wonderful plot bunnies have been born! I am so looking forward to some new stories!

There was a comment obaona made that I would like to respond to:
I guess I think that having more Jedi like Qui-Gon might have saved the Jedi, but not because they were tipped over to the Living Force, rather than balanced, but because people might have cared for them more - which, regardless, they had no way of knowing (because if the Unified Force doesn't show what will happen, being more aware of the Living Force hardly will). If that makes sense.

It does.
This comment hit on a theory that was recently told to me - that the Force was 'not balanced' by the prequel era because there were far more Unifying Force Jedi than Living Force Jedi. At best, we know that Qui-Gon (and maybe Dooku?) were the only Living Force Jedi in TPM. No council member was. And neither were the few other Jedi we know via EU. According to the same theory, post-RotJ, the Force was balanced by the Skywalker twins - Living Force Luke and Unifying Force Leia.
*Food for thought, isn't it?*
IMO, neither Jedi-type (Living or Unifying) is better but there needed to be an even distribution of the two so that - in a nutshell - the Jedi as a whole could see the forest *and* the trees.

BTW, whether this was the *cause* or the *effect* of the Rise of the Sith is debatable.

Re Arthur Casting: I think Catherine Zeta Jones would make a good Morgana and Cate Blanchett would make the perfect Guenevere. Launcelot - definitely Hugh Jackman. They will need to make him uglier though . Hayden C or Orlando Bloom will make a good Galahad. Elaine - Kiera Knightley or Liv Tyler. And of course, Merlin should be Ian McKellen (who else? ) My favourite Authorian heroine, Iseult would be Kate Winslet.
Of course, it all depends if any of the ones I mentioned can actually sing (and if I own the production company ) but they'd look great in a drama.

Hope the guys that are going to New York have fun!


***pops back into lurkdom***

*pops back into lurkdom*

 

Welcome leia_naberrie! Nice to have you here! (Don't lurk! We need more people! )

 

I developed basically the same theory mentioned by leia_naberrie for the balance of the Force question because it fits the few facts we have and I just plain don't like the idea of good needing to be equally balanced with evil. Although, I have always thought that Leia couldn't have had much Force ability or it must have been hidden in some way or Vader would have known why she was so strangely resistant to the interrogation drugs. On the other hand, she was strangely resistant to the interrogation drugs.

I thought of it as a balance between chaos and order. Which I think would manifest as Living Force (chaos) and Unifying Force(order). With Qui-Gon representing chaos (naturally) and order personified by Mace Windu perhaps. And it seemed to me that Obi-Wan moved from being another representative of order to a more balanced position himself by the time of the Original Trilogy movies. We'll have to wait for EP3 though to see if anything in it can be twisted to support this last element.

So, what is the current Qui-Gon challenge - or is there one?

KD

 

Can we make that four? Liam in Camelot? Oh goodness....I wanna go! It's what I've always dreamed of doing!!! hehehe sorry sorry sorry....I had to steal it from Anakin he expressed my sentiments perfectly.......Seriously Diane if y'all really are going let me know when ..

 

Don't worry. When I find out, I'll let everyone know. I think I'll probably take my whole family once and go again myself. Of course, that assumes he's actually going to do it!

 

This is an interesting thread.

I've been staying away from all spoilers on Epi 3 but I sure hope Qui-Gon makes an appearance.

I feel like sitting down and writing the meeting between the two! Qui-Gon was one of the best things about TPM to me. Whenever I think of him, I see him kneeling silently waiting for that energy barrier to move as Maul paces before him with that over-confident expression.

I didn't know there were books with Dooku's and Qui-Gon's relationship. I can sure see them being very comfortable with each other. I wonder what made Dooku turn...uh oh plot bunnie...

I'm rambling and not adding anything here, but I didn't want to lurk anymore and I'm enjoying your thread.

Thanks you guys. Suzanne

 

Hey Suzanne! Glad you've decided to join the discussion!

Oooh, and I'll de-lurk with you... I actually wasn't lurking, persay, but rather been sick a while.. poor jess. Ooh, the Arthur/Quigs thing sounds awesome! *waves hand in the air* Oh, I wanna go! I'm in D.C., not too far...Anyway, I guess I'll worry about that when we get there.

*blinks and looks aorund* So what are we discussing?

 

Can I suggest a possible story challenge?

What about a story with Qui-Gon's first apprentice? Let's write a sghort fic that takes place around the time of that apprentice's Knighting.. a few days before or after?

 

That brings up another question I have. About a year or so ago I read a story (or part of a story) that included a female ex-padawan of Qui-Gon's and I went looking for some sort of indication as to whether the existence and gender of this padawan had been invented by the author or taken from some source and I could not find any reference to a padawan before Xanatos for the life of me. I really did hunt about some too. Although, I have to admit to not reading the Brooks novel of TPM well enough to be sure I would have caught a one line side reference.

Today I went to the official site and lo and behold they have changed the stuff about Qui-Gon again (since the last time I checked which may well be quite a while ago - like years I guess - time flies etc) and they now refer to Xanatos as his second apprentice with what seems to me to be a lame attempt to cover up continuity issues by warping the character's personality again. At least I hope that is it. Otherwise, I'm gonna worry that they picked Liam Neeson for the part based on one of his roles that would indicate a potential for a very scary alternative Qui-Gon. (Dagnabit - AU bunny - very AU)

So is there any more info about this "first" padawan lurking somewhere else?

KD

 

Oooo! Oooo! I know this one!

YES! In the Episode I Visual Dictionary by David West Reynolds, on page 13, it says "Qui Gon earned the rank of Master when he trained his first Padawan apprentice to Knighthood, although his second apprentice failed to become a Knight. Obi-Wan is Qui-Gon's third Padawan, and a worthy student of his wisdom and skill." Published 1999. LC: PN1997.S6595 R 49

 

I calculated the potential ages for his Padawans for a story once (still unwritten) for him to have 3 Padawans and be his age.
at 23 Knight
at 25 take first Padawan (12 years old)
at 37 Padawan graduates
takes Xan right away (11 years old)
at 47 Xan falls
at 49 takes Obi-Wan (13 years old)
at 61 dies

If you assume that Qui is only in his fifties,
at 21 Knight
at 22 takes first Padawan
at 34 Padawan graduates
takes Xan right away
at 43 Xan falls
at 45 takes Obi-Wan
at 57 dies

So it is possible that Qui-Gon could be in his fifties if he and his Padawans graduate quickly (especially Xan)