Discussions Light and dark side

Is a jedi (or light side force user) able to cast dark side force powers? And is a dark side force user able to cast light side force powers?
I believe that if a jedi uses dark side powers he may fall to the dark side. But if a sith is able to use light side powers, like heal, than sith are a lot more powerfull than jedis, because they could use both sides of force.
In KOTOR we see that we can buy powers of both sides, but depending on your alignment, it is easier to cast powers of your nature and harder from the opposite nature. A lot of other games, like KOTOR II and Jedi Academy, shows force users using both sides.
How would this work in "real" Star Wars world?

 

It varies a lot. Some forms of healing seem to be used (Nadd heals Kun in the Tales of the Jedi series). Others seem to be disdained. Bane, for example, says The Dark Side is not normally good at healing.

In the Saga Edition roleplaying game- a special trait of the Aing-Tii monk path, is the ability to remove the [light side] or [dark side] descriptor from a particular known power. Characters who have maxed out their Dark Side points, can't normally wield Light Side powers.

 

But how does this works in "real" (canon) star wars world?

 

My guess is that Aing-Tii, and their students, can sometimes wield Dark Powers without actually being corrupted by them- but the normal Jedi that does so will be tainted, just a little.

And that Sith Lords and Sith Apprentices, due to being fully immersed in the Dark Side, can't wield Light Powers like Force Sever, at all.

 

I would say that a jedi or other non-dark Force user would have no problems using dark side powers (after all they are quicker and easier) as long as s/he is wiling to use the dark side and has at least some idea how to use them.
When it comes to "light side" (I dislike that term) powers the thing about them is that, to my understanding, you need a level of compassion, selflessness and/or inner peace that most dark side users lack

 

Well, this just doesn't make much sense to me. Why doesn't the dark side need the user to be angry and selfish, then? Wouldn't the jedi at least be tempted to fall?

 

Really only responding because I had just typed up this explanation only a couple days ago so its an easy matter for me to copy and paste what I typed while I rush off to my night job.



This is a complicated issue mostly due to how there are so many factors that can benefit - or disprove - either argument. When it comes to both Light Side and Dark Side powers, a lot of them tend to share a common source in a power that could use for both. Mind Tricks, for example, could allow a Jedi to convince a criminal to drop their weapon (Persuasion) or, if you were Sith, to unleash unimaginable horrors upon an individual's psyche (Horror). Telekinesis can be used to pull an individual out of harm's way or crush his neck. If you want to look at it in a general view such as this, then yes there does tend to be powers that would depend on the user's intentions and not-so much the innateness to the Dark or the Light.

However, that's in a general, broad view that's looking at a criteria of Force Powers rather then a specific power of the category. If you focus on just the power itself, you find one thing that people forget: these are powers that are only effective because they are innately Dark or Light. When a Jedi wants to heal an individual, they are drawing upon compassion and a selfless desire to mend their injuries with the Force which comes from a mastery of the light side and the discipline that you achieve with it. On the other hand, a Dark Side power meant to torture or kill such as Force Choke is only effective because a Sith wants its target to suffer as he is fueled by the raging emotions of the Dark Side.

A common thing I hear is that no matter the power, a Jedi or Sith can use it as long as they don't stray from their own doctrine. This is a mistake because it is only because of their doctrine and their chosen side of the Force that allows them to use these abilities effectively both in its execution and its results. It is not only the Sith's desire to cause a target to suffer with the use of Force Choke but also because the target's suffering allows the Dark Side to breed. An individual who was healed by a Jedi no longer exudes pain and misery and, thus, allows the Light Side to thrive. For a Sith or a Jedi to attempt to do the opposite would only lead to failure or a very weak attempt because they are not in the correct mindset or drawing on the power of the right side to bring the full power of the ability to bear.

 

I don't understand what you mean; can you expand on your comment? bitte

 

Is it really that hard for a person to be compassionate toward their friends and loved ones, but hateful toward their enemies?

 

Hate is an emotion of the dark side; a Jedi should not ever devolve in it lest it starts drawing him in even if it is an enemy. Or, at the very least, maintain control. Using dark side powers would only enhance this dark emotion and push him towards an eventual fall.

Love and compassion when it comes to a Sith is never usually just that. Obsession, possessiveness, or lust should not be mistaken for it. There are, perhaps, Sith who do feel genuine affection towards another but in Sith society it has never ended well where a Sith would eventually (in the case of Malgus and Jacen) give up their loved ones in the face of their ambitions for power. A truly powerful Sith is one who has nothing to hold him back; love would limit and weaken him.

 

What i meant was that if a dark side user need compassion and selflessness to use light side powers, than a light side user should need negative feelings to use dark side powers, right? Sorry for my bad english...

 

Yes. To use the Dark side you have to use negative emotions and to use some powers (the one people classify as "light side") you need compassion, selflessness and/or inner peace

 

Yes, but doing so doesn't automatically mean the Jedi will fall to the Dark Side. It's not exactly clear cut, but it tends to depend on the situation, the power used, and the extent of the damage it causes. Example? Luke using Force Choke in ROTJ when he went to Jabba's Palace. Technically a Dark Side application of TK, yet he didn't fall to the Dark Side. He called on his anger and frustration over his friend's fate to use the power, and nothing more. He was toeing a dangerous line but he didn't cross it. That's what it takes for a Jedi to use Dark Side Force powers. A legendary example of a Jedi doing such would be Kyle Katarn, followed by his apprentice Jaden Korr.

 

If Heir to the Empire is to believe, he did not use Force Choke but some kind of mental disorientation trick

 

The hell? Yeah, I don't buy that.

Sorry, Zahn. Not everything you write is pure gold.

 

If it is any help Luke considered that technique as something that left him feeling dirty but at the same time powerful (if I remember right) and he did not like using it

 

There are many Jedi which used DarkSide powers such as Mace Windu (Vaapad), Oppo Rancisis (Malacia), Yaddle (Morichro), Plo Koon (Emereald Lightning)...
All those techniques are considered "dark", but some Jedi ( many if all of them being Unifying Force followers) judged them good to practice to condition of being in perfect control of themself to avoid all temptations coming from the dark side. But the Living Force followers (Qui-Gon Jinn, Obi-wan Kenobi, Zao...) did'nt use them and prefered living according with their personal abilities provided by the Force instead of mastering powerful techniques.
Thank you for reading me.

 

Actually WotC's Power of the Jedi state that Morichro is not dark, just dangerous, and there was no known dark side user who know of that technique

 

You are probably right Gamiel, but remember that all technique with high risk of endangering sentient's life is Dark.

 

Where is that stated?

 

Moral my friend, What distinguishes the Jedi from the Sith, the good from the bad.