LIGHT/DARK

when i first watched star wars i was confused about how characters using the darkside of the force would refer to it as the darkside of the force. to me it meant that they were acknowleding they were evil and it didnt make sense because you have people like sidious that doesnt consider himself evil. lately however i have began to interpt lightside/darkside of the force to mean the lighter emotional side of the force and the darker emotional side of the force. im curious to know what other people think of this.

 

I don't think that Force powers decide Force-users alignment (as in D&D terms), I think that your choices and actions, but also the circumstances make the characteristics for Light and the Dark Side.

 

Finally! A place where I can put my theory...

WARNING! MAJOR RANTING BELOW!!

First, my opinion is that the Force itself is evil. My reasons for believing so:
1. Look at the politics of the Jedi. They think that everyone but themselves are wrong, and that their own opinions are the only right and good. They want complete control of the galaxy. Mace Windu sent Anakin to spy on Palpatine. Sure Palpatine is evil, but I'm sure that sooner or later, the Jedi would have sent one of their own to overthrow the Chancellor for thier own pathetic need to control.
2. Mace Windu. He killed Palpatine instead of letting him stand trial. But wait! Didn't Windu reprimand Anakin for doing the same thing to Dooku?
3. The Sith and Jedi both use the same Force. Because the Jedi have the Force, they want control(see #1), and because the Sith have the Force, they want control as well. Essentially, they want the same thing, it's just that the Jedi are slowly gaining control, as the Sith are "gaining" control faster, or in other words, the Sith rush into things, and the Jedi are taking their time. Because of the difference in control time, it leads to wars between the Sith and Jedi. And what guides the actions of the Jedi and Sith alike? The Force.

 

Major Ranting indeed.

I disagree about the Force being evil. Money isn't evil. Politics are not evil. The Catholic Church is not evil. Ideally, all these things are used for the betterment of society. I don't feel like explaining how, but it all boils down to the person who hoards his money selfishly is evil, not the money itself. The person who fights for political power so he has the authority to commit genocide is evil (I was thinking Hitler, but Palpatine also). The people who used the Catholic Church as an excuse to go and murder Muslims and Jews in the Crusades were acting evilly. The Sith/Jedi who uses the Force for control is evil, not the Force itself (to put thigs in a very black and white sense)

 

This is how I see it. The dark side of the Force is driven by negative emotion. Somewhere in that type of emotion is the ability to heighten one's ability and stregnth in using the Force. There is also mastery of this ability once it is attained. The Force is an energy field surrounded by all living things. Since that is so, the Force is itself alive and is there for the user to be felt and used.


There are various levels in abilities in how to use this power. The Sith abuse this power. They turn it into some sort of twisted quest for the Force to serve them while the Jedi use the Force to attain profound knowledge.

The Force I've always believed is pure on it's own. It doesn't love. It doesn't hate. But those that love and hate are able to manipulate it to various degrees which results in how it is used.

The more experienced the user, the more the user can learn to summon the Force at his or her call. To achieve mastery of it takes an extremely great deal of time though.

 

These are all wonderful and very profound definitons.

I think the Force is like God. The Jedi and Sith are like Christians, Jews, and Muslims.

I believe that the Sith and the Jedi are similar like Palpatine said. I think whatever dogma or doctrine that is used for their philosophy determines how they connect to the Force and understand what the Force is to them.

 

I can see what you are saying, mjerome3. Maybe the force itself isn't evil, but it forces those who use it to commit evil. The Sith more profoundly than the Jedi, but bad all the same. To obtain knowlege...And because they think they know more than anyone else, the Jedi think they are better. And for that, they want control.
Or maybe I am only basing this opinion on the series, as there is more to the SW universe. By the time of the Clone Wars, I think that the Jedi lost sight of what they were meant to be. What that is, I haven't really established yet. Maybe to be peacekeepers, or to be warlords. On that subject, if they were truly "enlightened" by the force, they would see that war is obsilete. There really is no point to it. And how do you explain the formation of the Sith in the first place? If the Force is good, then why does it spawn evil?
But, I have to agree with Anakin and Palpatine. Good and evil are in the eyes of the beholder.

 

Yugi I agree with your theory. The force corrupts those who can feel it and turns them into arrogant "missionaries" who feel that it is their job to use the force in the way it was "meant" to be used (e.g. gaining control) instead of accepting it and leaving it alone. The Jedi and Sith are both equal because they had they greed to delve into the force when in reality they could not fully control it.

 

Sure, the Jedi wanted CONTROL: in the case of ROTS, they wanted to control (i.e. eliminate, destroy, kill with a purple lightsaber) the EVIL that had tainted the Republic, and SOMEHOW bring the Force back into Balance.

They were on the verge of moving on Palpatine, even before Anakin turned him in, because Palpatine was acting like a DICTATOR.

They just didn't see the big picture - what with Order 66, and all - That Palpatine was using the Force for an EVIL that they would never dream of; to place Galaxy under the the cruel control of the Dark Side, using their lack of vision against them.

 

Balance? Balance the Force? How about kill any and all who don't agree with them? What if a dictation is good for the galaxy? What's so great about the Republic? All it does it take a longer time to debate a major issue. I don't really care about politics, as long as it works. But on the balance thing, ever heard of Yin-Yang? You NEED a balance of good and evil.

 

Here's a quote from Jedi Academy (the game for PC/Xbox) from Kyle Katarn:

"Remember, abilities are not inherintly good or evil...it's how you use them."

Forgive me if I spelled inherintly wrong

 

?Luke, you?re going to find that so many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.? --Obi-Wan Kenobi
Palpatine and Anakin said this as well in ROTS, just in different words. There is no good and evil; just opinion and corruption.

 

Agreed. It's not whether you have the ability to use the Dark Side or Light Side of the Force ... but instead the choices that you make.

It's the choices that ultimately decide what your path will be.

 

The force is just the force, it has a will. That will is not evil. There is is no light and dark it is only the users intent on if it is dark or not withthe exception of a few powers, I still feel that force lightning although it could be used in a defense purpose it is meant to take life away thus taking away the force itself. this is long conversation but one must be willing to accept that the force is not light or dark.

 

I was saying that Vader/Anakin and Sidios/Palpatine also said that same thing. But when Anakin said it to Obi-Wan in ROTS, Obi-Wan said, "Then your vision is clouded!" The Jedi are hypocrites. Mace, Obi-Wan, even Yoda, the greatest Jedi of all time. Mace, when he tried to kill Sidious, Obi-Wan also when he told someone (I forget who) to use their feelings in ROTS, and to Luke in ANH. Isn't the Jedi way to not use your feelings? Even Yoda told, I think it was Obi-Wan, to use his feelings about Anakin in ROTS.

 

I think what they are trying to say is to use your feelings. But do not be ruled by them, do not let them make your only reason for acting, instincts can be more powerful than making a judgement call.

 

First off I have admitedly a Jedi point of view on the saga for the most part so I am not the most unbiased person to discuss the subject of is the Force evil.

Now that that's out of the way, I don't view the Force as evil, I view the Force as light and the dark side as a corruption of the Force and bending it to your will instead of obeying the Force's will (I wish the guy who worked at a Ben and Jerry's near C3 was on these boards cause he explained it really well).

One example is to think of the Force like a lake, that lake can have rapids that will suck you under and consume you or it can be completely still and peaceful. When the Force is balanced it is the peaceful lake and the Jedi are acting as peacekeepers. When the Force is out of balance it is the lake with pounding waves that can be your demise, this is when the Dark Side is in control especially but even the mere presence of the Sith Lords can cause this chain reaction.

However I am not saying that during the Prequels the Jedi were acting as the representatives and servants of the Force they are supposed to be. There are still Jedi who are acting as servants of the Force, most notably Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi. However most of the order has become so mired in tradition that they are unable to change, notably Yoda. I do agree that a truly "enlightened" Jedi would be able to avoid a war all together by the time of the Prequels the Dark Side is so much in control that the Jedi Order will fall regardless and the Sith will rise only to be destroyed by Jedi who are far more in tune with the Force, those being Luke and the Redeemed Anakin Skywalker.