Discussion Light Saber Duels - OT or PT style?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Darth EL Pollo Loco, Jan 28, 2013.

  1. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I read it. While Han comes across as a bit of an idiot at first- he improves considerably by the end.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Jun 6, 2013
  2. GoJohnnyGo Jedi Master

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    Nov 19, 2012
    star 1
  3. mavjade It's so FLUFFY! Fanfic & New Movies Manager

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    I could get behind The Princess Bride style, with lightsabers! :D

    But I also don't think that's the kind of excitement most casual watcher are looking for, which I figure is just flashy, whether it makes since or not. ;)
  4. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

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    Luke screams "As youuu wisssssssssssshhhh..." as he falls down the shaft in ESB: The Ultimate Edition.
  5. Revanfan1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    I'm going to agree with this. The fights should be brutal, with the audience sitting on the edges of their seats at every swing. Something like this, except with costumes instead of street clothes...

  6. The Hellhammer 7SA Forum Interrogator

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  7. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

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    That video is rather spectacular.
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  8. The Hellhammer 7SA Forum Interrogator

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    I hope they make a third one where they get someone equally talented in the costume department and some crazy location or scenery...it would be almost indistinguishable from the real thing.
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  9. SithLord_1270 Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 5, 2008
    star 3
    I prefer the PT style. More energetic & exciting to watch.
  10. Sedrin Celis Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2013
    PT without question. Although technically there isnt a difference in my opinion. The thing is, every jedi has their own dueling style(s). One could say that the PT featured more jedi, hence there was a wider variety of styles to watch; some more acrobatic or flashy than others. In OT Cyber-Vader had his style. And Luke was basically trying not to get killed... and that was basically it. There simply wasn't as much variety OT that's all
    Last edited by Sedrin Celis, Jun 6, 2013
  11. chris hayes Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 13, 2012
    star 4
    PT for sure , I mean how many Light sabre duels were there really in the OT about 3 ?...............
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  12. Han Yolo Jedi Grand Master

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    Mar 7, 2013
    star 2
    Ironically enough, it never seemed like Luke was on the offensive. In fact now that I think about it, Luke wasnt all that stong. He fought for survivial against a clearly weak Vader, barely held him off unitl he finally gained the upper hand for a moment...out of anger...stopped fighting and then only was saved by his father against Palps.
  13. Carbon1985 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2013
    star 3
    Because basically every duel in the OT wasn't about killing the other jedi. Vader was toying with an untrained Luke in ESB, and never tried to kill him because he was trying to turn him to the darkside. ROTJ was more about Luke not fighting Vader, as the only point they get in hand to hand combat he is overcome by the darkside and just unloads on him. The PT duels are straight hand to hand combat and they are trying to kill each other, nothing more nothing less.

    As for ANH duel, many people forget that Lucas tried to replicate the duels of mid-evil times (Excalibur & Conan first come to mind) as the lightsabers were supposed to be very heavy (like a Sword) as it limited your movement. Kirshner talked him into changing the styles in ESB in making the lightsabers appear lighter, hence why Vader is fighting with one hand.
    Last edited by Carbon1985, Jun 7, 2013
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  14. janstett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2004
    star 3
    Empire-like. It should be like a sword fight in Game of Thrones. Not Cirque Du Soleil.
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  15. janstett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2004
    star 3
    No Cirque Du Soleil, dammit!

    [IMG]
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  16. InterestingLurker Force Ghost

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    Jun 15, 2011
    star 4
    I actually liked that part. Anyone else have the urge to rewatch ROTS?
  17. janstett Force Ghost

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    May 29, 2004
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    LOL, fights between characters we either don't know or don't care about. Loaded with emotions!

    Thrill as the paper thin bad guy who has one line in the entire movie and doesn't say a word to the two Jedi he is fighting because there is no reason for them to fight other than because he's the bad guy, does summersaults and backflips, yet stupidly stands still for several seconds as the hero (or is he the hero? We're never quite sure as the protagonist is never really defined) jumps over him from 15 feet down in a pit and slices him in half.

    Gasp as the old man whose motivations are completely unexplored chops the arm off the whiny kid.

    You'll be on the edge of your seat as the CGI frog bounces around a cave like a rubber ball fighting the old man 3x his size with a tiny baby sized light saber.

    All building to the climactic showdown where the same frog fights a man with a puffy monster face in a phone booth, and our heroes use words that cut like lightsabers (Rick McCallum actually used that words, but the "dialogue" and I can't use enough quotes around dialogue, is completely throwaway trash that does not support the supposed weight of this fight) in an overextended, exhausting, unnecessarily over the top sequence that will end up boring you to death from overload. The fight is just as run-on as that sentence I wrote.
    Last edited by janstett, Jun 8, 2013
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  18. janstett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2004
    star 3
    Don't you like how the platform suddenly stood still despite the current? Come to think of it, they were moving upstream against the current. **** it.

    That was exciting and well done, but the big problem I have with light saber fights is that they are overchoreographed so that the goal is to clash sabers in dramatic way, not to land a blow. Even in this video a few times the other guy is stunned and the aggressor kicks him in the back instead of delivering a death blow and waits for him to recollect himself. I understand there is a certain amount of honor in traditional sword fights and not going for the easy, dishonorable kill, but if two swordsmen are fighting to the death, in reality it's over quickly.
    I go back to Empire when the fight became a melee and Luke landed a strike on Vader's shoulder and that made Vader irate and he put an end to the dance very quickly.

    Mav Edit: The entire word needs to be starred out. Also, when you are posting replys to several people, please make your comments all in one post to avoid double posting.
    Last edited by mavjade, Jun 8, 2013
  19. Jarren_Lee-Saber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2008
    star 4
    Oh no, the "people we don't care about" RLM argument.Yawn.
    Just because YOU don't care about Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Anakin, Mace Windu, Yoda, (or the baddies Darth Maul, Dath Sideous, Count Dooku) doesn't mean nobody else does. I certainly care about those characters! That's why I love the PT.
  20. Jarren_Lee-Saber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2008
    star 4
    "Fights between characters we know & love. Loaded with emotions!
    Thrill as the mysterious strong, silent bad guy who attempts to stop our heroes at the behest of his mysterious Master, does somersaults and back-flips, yet who ultimately falls to hubris thinking he is better than the young hero (who must avenge his beloved master) jumps over him with the power of the Force from a pit and slices him in half.
    Gasp as the wise, aged villain man whose motivations remains shrouded in deep mystery, chops the arm off the most powerful Force user in the galaxy.
    You'll be on the edge of your seat as the head of the Jedi order demonstrates that size doesn't matter with the power of the Force, holding his own against a man 3x his size.
    All building to the climactic showdown where the same Jedi Master fights a man with the core of all the evil in the galaxy in an attempt to save it, and our main heroes use words that cut like lightsabers in the most chilling, emotional, and perfectly choreographed duel sequence in the Sage that will shock you, awe you, and even bring you to tears. Those fights are greater than anything you could ever hope to write."

    FIXED!
    Last edited by Jarren_Lee-Saber, Jun 8, 2013
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  21. janstett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2004
    star 3
    It's a basic pillar of storytelling that you are willing to overlook. RLM didn't invent the notion of bad characterization. They just pointed out that it's one of the key reasons the prequels are bad and articulated it.

    The RLM reviews came out in 2010. That is not when people started having a problem with the prequels.

    Maul is paper-thin. He's what is called a "mustache twirler". You may not know what that means. It refers back to the old movies where the villains were paper thin, had no character development, and existed simply to be the bad guy. And almost all of them twirled their mustaches (facial hair is evil, remember) and rubbed their hands together and laughed. Dick Dastardly from the Hanna Barbera cartoons is a good meta reference to it. Suits Maul to a tee.

    I feel I'm wasting my time to explain the aspects of bad characterization that apply to each character in the saga, but I'll take another pass with a wasted opportunity for Dooku. Here we have a fallen Jedi who is supposed to be the face of villainy in the second two films (even though we know he is manipulated by Sidious) and we know almost nothing about him or what his motivations are. Why did he leave the Jedi? What is his character, i.e. noble, disillusioned, frustrated? We are never told. What drives him to leave the order when it's supposed to be such a rare thing and how do these ideals drive him to be the leader of a separatist movement?

    See, you may not care about good characterization or maybe it's of low importance and that's fine, but that doesn't mean the movies are good storytelling. We've got 5,000+ years of storytelling tradition that says otherwise.

    I'll say a little more about the two main characters, Obi-Wan and Anakin.

    Obi-Wan seems to at least be a little human -- he makes jokes, he smiles, he seems to actually act like a human being occasionally. He seems to be kind and compassionate, so you can sort of relate to him. But most of the time he is cold and demanding and stoic. So it's hard for viewers to relate to the character.

    Anakin is completely unlikeable. When he isn't being a whiney brat complaining about Obi-Wan behind his back, he's murdering people. Or being a complete moron (see the Opera scene). How the heck is an audience supposed to relate to that?
    Last edited by janstett, Jun 9, 2013
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  22. Darth Eddie Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2013
    star 3
    I'd like to see a new balance forged. The OT duels obviously had the clumsy, unrefined but highly kinetic quality to them; the PT duels were so fast you could hardly tell what's going on- which is both spectacular and confusing.

    I want to see the refined-ness of those PT duels combined with the clarity-of-action of the OT duels - and none of Mark Hamill's egregiously horrible footwork that sticks out like a sore thumb to anyone who knows how footwork works.
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  23. Darth Eddie Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2013
    star 3
    pardon double post but I hate it when people assume nobody relates with Anakin. I relate with Anakin more than with any other character! It's all just a matter of perspective.
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  24. Jedirush2112 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2013
    star 3
    LightSabre Duels : The Old Republic Style!

  25. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    justto add to my earlier answer

    (lightsaber threads being my favourite)

    I'd like to see a fencer.

    When I mean fencer I mean in the classical sense of the word NOT like Dooku. Like Errol Flynn or Olympic style fencing,

    that would be something to see.
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