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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY COMPETITION 4 (Updated 11/09 - Entry Deadline Over)

Discussion in 'Fan Films, Fan Audio & SciFi 3D' started by Sage_Halcyon, Jul 31, 2005.

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  1. BigOlaf-aka-TheSarge

    BigOlaf-aka-TheSarge Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2004
    Okay, first off:


    This is not episode 1, 2, or 3.

    I do not believe that small movies should be given the same leniency that Massive productions are given on time.




    Second:


    Mr. Gillard, and Mr. Park are trained professionals who get paid to do these things everyday.

    I will bow my hat to you if you seriously get paid to have a perfect fight for whatever movies you may be doing.




    Third:

    How is it that hard to squeeze a three minute movie into two weeks?

    I have made realistic, fast, and visually entertaining martial arts fights in a day.





    Fourth:

    This being my first contest, I should probably be more careful in my approach than that of my previous movies. However, I do have training in many sword forms, including; fencing, broadsword, katana, and kendo forms.
    I also have training in quarter-staff engagements.

    But, lightsabers is a new thing for me.

    I am sure that you, yourself have had much more training in "lightsaber" battling.
    I believe you said you wanted to make it "past" third place, which means you are probably very good.

    Therefore you should have no trouble to create a new fight.

    If Ryan W, Michael S and Brandon F can do it in less than a day, then I am assuming that all other lightsaber fanfilmmakers can certainly come up with something in two weeks.

     
  2. ASOULAN

    ASOULAN Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2005
    Okie...question...

    Let's say that people are able to cobble together a rough draft in time. If you think you can do a good job that quickly then more power to ya...but those who want or need more time. Will the initial submission be used to decide whether an entry is accepted or not? Lets just say it fits all of the criteria for the contest. But if it is so abysmally bad as to be almost unwatchable would it make the final submission ineligible ?

    If yes then so be it. But if not then what's to keep everyone from tossing some garbage together as a placeholder so that they can at least participate ?

    Personally, win or loose, I could care less. I just want to be able to get in on the fun.

    Sorry for being so negative, but this whole thing has me so disappointed right now.
     
  3. Mae

    Mae Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2004
    I personally like the challenge of having a few weeks to get creative and come up with a rough idea of a fight.
     
  4. Viperthejedi

    Viperthejedi Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 23, 2005
    Damn straight DMP.. You truely have a way with words.

    Probably be best just to have this "proposal" idea for the final product. Just give people a month or 2 to make a fight that doesnt have "eye candy" in it. Then people will truely be awarded on their choregraphy rather than their "eye candy". And after the contest people can add "eye candy" to their entries if they want.

    But yeah thats just me. SAGE knows what he's doing i'm sure. He is very wise. He's like a miniature Budda covered with hair.
     
  5. Deagle_Raa

    Deagle_Raa Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2002
    Wow, I am very two minded about this one. I can understand the point of having the proposal solely as a judge of pure coreography but the restraints on that video are unfeasible.

    I won't go into the 2 week deadline since it's been mentioned enough times, but for it to be worth 50% of the overall score? With points deducted if participants don't stick to their plan? That's extremely harsh if we are only allowed two weeks to devise something. Last saber fight I attempted the coreography was constantly updated on a weekly basis, and even in filming moves were being changed. The final product was nothing like the original concept.
    How will the judges differentiate between coreography that's been 'improved' and coreography that doesnt stick to it's original plan?

    The 3 camera setup for the proposal is also vastly limiting. The entire point of editing between lots of camera angles is to make the coreography more exciting and hide the flaws. My friend said this about Broken Allegiance the other day after seeing it for the first time:- the coreography is actually really good judging from the behind the scenes video, but the final product lacked any kind of excitment because of the cinematography and it's lack of angles.

    It brings me to question, why have a proposal video at all? Espeically one that's worth half the entire score. In dance competitions they judge the final product, not the leadup to it.

    There's a show here called "Strictly Dancing" that deals with the issue between flashiness of coreography/ how well the dancers performed and the actual moves that were performed.
    Basically the judges score by first awarding points for the techincal aspects of the dance. Then they give a another score based on the energy level of the dancers, how well they responded to each other and to the auidence, how natural they looked etc.

    So as a suggestion, if we were to take a similar scoring system into LCC4, the proposal video wouldnt be marked, but used as a tool for the judges to compare with the final entry. And it would be submitted a week or two before the final.
    THe judges would then look at the final entry and the proposal and give it a score based on the technical aspects of the fight in categories such as footwork, co-ordination, believability, speed, etc.
    Then additional points given for fx, sound, location, costume, cinematography, editing. And that can be given by the general public.
    And of course highest total wins.

    To me this system is a lot more straight foreward.

    I'd like to hear everyone else's thoughts on this matter.
     
  6. DMPjedi

    DMPjedi Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2003
    Viperthejedi posted on 8/1/05 12:58am
    Damn straight DMP.. You truely have a way with words.
    [hr][/blockquote]

    I failed creative writing this last year...

    My thoughts are the contest leaders have discussed this for months on end and this is what they've come down to. When contests are posted in newspapers or magazines, you don't see people calling a town meeting to discuss changing the rules because it doesn't fit them this year. I'm with Mae, give me a challenge...especially since my plans are to be strictly choreographer and have other people performing. I'm excited to take my seat behind the camera finally.
     
  7. warofthestars

    warofthestars Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 2005
    I really thought this wouldnt happen so soon. We are just in the middle of filming our movie and we really wanted to participate in this, too... Well, not that we'd score any high anyway.
     
  8. Khalor

    Khalor Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2004
    Is there any leeway in the length of the fight? Like, an extra 15 seconds?
     
  9. Padawan_John

    Padawan_John Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2002
    The time limit's no problem for me . . . . the two weeks might even be workable (maybe). I'll get on that ten minutes ago. But only three angles, with no camera movement?!?!

    I honestly don't know if it's going to be possible to do that with what I/we have in mind.

    Nyar.
    [face_devil]
     
  10. danielhilsden

    danielhilsden Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2005
    At last, hopefully Im going to get a tripod so I can meet the criteria, and we'll see where it goes from there. 2 Weeks should be enough to get it done (the proposal). Should be fun.

    Daniel
     
  11. BrandonFlyte

    BrandonFlyte Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2004
    Interesting requirements this time around.
     
  12. Covax

    Covax Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 30, 2003
    Questions: (not that I'm participating, but I'm curious)
    - For the pitch vid is it a requirement that the same fighters be used for the final entry? I'm wondering if folks can 'farm out' choreography.

    - When would the pitch vids be publicly released? Same time as the entries?

    - I'm guessing there are no anonimity rules this time around?
     
  13. Phayze

    Phayze Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 23, 2004
    I'm no professional choreographer, but I am a perfectionist with a busy schedule, and there's just no way that I'll be able to assemble anything worth watching in two weeks.

    If the goal is to have a contest that strictly judges choreography, then why not simply ban all of this distracting "eye candy" from the entries and let the producer add in thier effects after the contest is over? It seems like that would generate the same results as all of this pre-submission nonsense, and wouldn't require such a short deadline.

    Oh well . . . I'll just get back to work on my fanfilm and not worry about it.

    Good luck to all the entrants! :)
     
  14. Cuban_Menace

    Cuban_Menace Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2004
    This quick deadline is not good for us that work, have kids etc I would like to enter but this competition was not set up with us old farts in mind.

    Good luck to those who enter
     
  15. yikes

    yikes Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Because 50% of choreogrphy, at least choreography for filmmaking that is, is camera work and photography. The raw 1 angle presubmission is to judge your kung fu moves, and the final version is to make it a polished flick with camera work.

    At least thats how I see it.
     
  16. Kij421

    Kij421 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Dang it. 2 weeks? I have no one to choreograph with, and I haven't met my roommates yet (not until the 12th), so I don't know if they would want to do any of this... Basically, I have nothing to compete in this, except the desire. No camera, no desirable props, no partners, no time. Maybe next time.
     
  17. IndyDreams

    IndyDreams Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2005
    Couple of questions after re-reading the first post.

    a) Does the "proposal choreography" have to be up to speed, or is it just to show the moves?

    b) Does the proposal have to be in the same location as the final product?

    If these were already answered, woops.
     
  18. brook_33

    brook_33 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2003
    Two Questions (I skimmed through the replies so tell me if they've been answered already)

    1. Are all entries accepted or do you judge who gets in based on the proposal? If you have a proposal are you an automatic "in"?

    2. You say if we tell you we're doing effects and sound, but then don't, that we will lose points. If we say we aren't doing effects and sound, but find the time to, then will we lose points as well?
     
  19. JediPastor

    JediPastor Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 15, 2005
    I like the idea.

    Poor execution.

    My sparring partner and I started choreographing three weeks ago. I had us stop last week after I read that the organizers didn't want anyone getting a head start. Now I'm glad we did start early. We've met for a total of 12 hrs over a period of 3 days, 8 of which was mostly building our lightsabers and the "white rabbit project" spinning camera rig. We've got about 30 seconds of actual choreography done (at slow speed).

    I think that it would be better to have the first video due in a month. Some people can't meet everyday. Some of us actually have full time jobs (40+ hours a week) We can only work out maybe 6-8 ours on a single day and only for 1 day a week. That would give us, who actually contribute to society, 18-24 hours of time to make our video (compared to the kids on summer break who will have 60-100 hours to work on theirs). If you want an actual competition, please consider extending the time of the first deadline. Otherwise you are eliminating a large number of qualified contenders because of a ridiculous rule.

    The camera work idea is good. However, we should be able to pan to follow the action as it moves past. Otherwise we will just have to lock down the camera on a wide and you won't be able to see anything because we will be so small. It is for everyone's best interest that the first video be head to toe following the action so that the judges will have the best view of the choreography and footwork. I'm assuming that the first video doesn't have to be at full speed. We won't have points counted against us if the first video is the exact choreography as the final just not as fast will we? I'm planning on submitting a preliminary video that shows me and my partner from saber tip to toe with minimal camera cuts (only those that help the judges see the choreography better) and with a written script of the choreography for them to follow. I then plan to follow that script in the final video at full speed with all visual effects, music and sound.

    I am on vacation next week and I had planned my vacation so that I could work on this competition. However, my father died yesterday and that has changed a lot of things. I'm going to be taking my mom out of town next week with our family for a small getaway. Life continues and I still plan to be part of this competition but it will have to be on an extended deadline. I hope the judges understand.
     
  20. Cuban_Menace

    Cuban_Menace Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2004
    Jedipastor,

    My condolences on your loss.

     
  21. DMPjedi

    DMPjedi Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2003
    Seconded. You know, that's exactly the thing I was talking to IndyDreams about a few minutes ago. The whole point system based on if you stick to your plan is a little unfair IMO. Say you tell the judges you're going to put in VFX, sound, music, the works...then a relative dies or something and you're not working on the thing for a couple weeks. Thus you miss the deadline and don't get all your eye-candy added and lose points...all because you had a tragedy in the first place. Also the other way around...if we say we probably won't have time to add eye-candy, then we suddenly find time, we lose points as well?

    I don't mean to be much of a whiner, because in all honesty, I'm in a good situation compared to most people here, and I'm in the crowd of "quit whining and try to get something done"...but I do see some issues with some of the rules.

    Oh well, I'll deal with them, obey them, and stick to my town meeting theory :D BRING IT ON!!!
     
  22. DarthArjuna

    DarthArjuna Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2002
     
  23. DMPjedi

    DMPjedi Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2003
    Indeed. School sucks. I don't know why they even bother calling the class "creative" writing. There's so many freakin' guidelines you have to follow...but I don't wanna be the first to drive this thread off topic.

    Wait...that's not possible!
     
  24. Dako

    Dako Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2005
    It seems like the Lightsaber Choreography Competition 3 just ended. Oh well, I'll definately enter in this one.

    So, no music, no sound, and no effects, just basic editing? I understand that.

    The 3 angles on a Tripod, that's sounds alright, but the proposal, does that mean the finished product, not the finished like with sounds, music, etc, but like, the entire fight? From 3 angles? That's going to be hard to do. Of course, I don't exactly understand. Someone clue me in here.

     
  25. DarthArjuna

    DarthArjuna Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2002
    For the Proposal, yes. That means that it's the choreography only, se we can see what the fight alone looks like.

    Then, if you want to dress it up, you can go back and do lots of angles and such.
     
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