***LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III*** VOTING / REVIEW THREAD

Once you've checked out all the entries you may finally VOTE HERE!
(Thanks to Durbnpoisn for setting this poll up for us)

If you're unsure where to download the entries or you're having problems getting certian ones, etc, do not post here! That's what the Release Thread is for. Keep that over there and keep the reviews and critiquing here. Have fun.

 

Excellent. My opinions coming shortly. . .

I am sure everyone was waiting for that!

 

Maybe I should start writing my reviews some time soon now...

 

My Reviews: The Top 5

# 02: These guys are good! But it seems that they did more flying than actual connecting with their sabers. Cutting off the fight with a "to be continued" really sucked and caused it to fall below my top 3. Plus that they used a kid!(unless the kid is a robot they should be in sword fights) Rating: #4

# 06: This entry is excellent, the way the film is presented extremely well. The fight is some of the best I've seen. I really like the way the master holds the saber so that the blade is torwards him instead of away from them. Rating: #?

# 08:This entry was made just as well, again the fighting is some of the best out there. As amazing as these fights are imagine how great the next one will be! The only thing that turned me off from this one was this one sequence. Rating #3

# 10: Again another amazing entry, the fighting is incredible. I know we're supposed to vote on the actual fighting but most of the entries lost points for unfinished fx. THIS ONE WAS THE EXCEPTION. Most of my friends watched it and really want to know how they made the decapitation at the end look so real?(cept no blood) Rating: #?

# 23: This one was #5 in my opinion. The fighting was very good but nothing compared to the above 3. Rating #5

And the moment we've all been waiting for!
The finalists for my vote are:

#6
and
#10

*Drum Roll*..........And the winner of my vote is.....

#6!!
This entry won my vote because it was just something about it that made it seem the best. #10 just didn't hit it for me, it seemed like they didn't care that they were fighting each other.

 

I'm reposting in this thread as it is more appropriate --

My favorites:

Number 8, 10, & 27.

Comments:
In #8, the low-angle, secondary establishing shot at 00:08 was wonderful -- and would have been positively Fincher-esque if this was shot wide-screen. The circling shot was good, but what really made this entry stand out was the left-panning (the pan is done so well as to look like a track) shot from 00:38 to 00:39, that quickly cuts to a POV from "Red's" perspective. This is, IMHO, the best shot of the competition. The lighting, framing, and execution is just so good here as the fighting starts that the rest of the short is set up perfectly. NICE.

#10 gets the fanboy in me excited, and I'm way too old to be a fanboy anymore. Someone degraded this submission for the extraneous twirling and so forth, but I loved it. Great lightsaber-play...and in my mind great choreography that simply looks too two-dimensional because of the good-but-not-superb cinematography compared to that in #8. Although "gravy" for this contest, I loved the Obi-Wan and Anakin haircuts/beard. Nice. With effects (again, not part of this contest), this would be glorious to watch. Only a couple of moments of "that take was 95% there, let's move on." And the 95% moments were 200% of most of the competition.

#27 Simply great use of an environment. I really liked the background elements, and the movement of this fight kept me interested. Very creative.

One more general comment; I hope many of you have a newfound respect for the role of DP in a production. Framing, POV and perspective on the set just make a huge difference, especially in filming action. Did you notice how much worse some of the scenes looked, where the fighting was actually pretty good, but the shots were just framed poorly or tracked in an unsteady manner?

Okay, back to lurking. But way to go, whoever the DP was for #8.

 

they made the decapitation at the end look so real?(cept no blood)

maybe if they were fighting with swords there would be blood

 

you know that wasn't funny and you didn't answer the question

 

There's no blood cause the wound was cauterized by the "saber".

 

My explanation on how they might have done the decapitation is have the blue guy fall back like his body does. Then he falls from the same point, but twisting and turning so his head follows a good path. Mask and bam. I was also wondering how the brownish shirt guy had the blade at one point, then tossed it with no blade a few seconds later. It could be done with masking, but the balance would have been different. Upon further examination, you can see it was two very closely matched shots with a short transition.

 

Another thing about the decapitation, look closely, and you see the head kinda falls by his arm and then dissapears....also, they must have had a hell of alot of stunt blades because you can see how dented they get.


--EDIT--

head kinda falls by his arm and then dissapears
nvm...im crazy and/or blind

 

I gave a short review of each entry in the release thread, but the post itself is very long and I won't post it in its entirety here. For those interested in my thoughts on each and every one, it's on this page, second post down.

Now, for the top three, then honorable mentions- those that were considered, and why I discarded them after repeated viewings.

3rd place: Entry 27. With its fast pace and excellently timed moves, this is the longest of the entries but not tiresome to watch. Both combatants make great use of their environment, whether it?s fighting on a table or borrowing the guy?s nail gun. The only thing separating this entry from the next two is a small amount of stick-bashing, sometimes well-disguised and sometimes not.

2nd place: Entry 8. A story arc shows the red bladed combatant at the end of his rope towards the end of the fight, and this does a very good job of showing it. The dark fight seems well executed, and the fighters are also great actors, with red-blade looking fearful towards the end. Only the jarring of when the lights come back on- right in the middle of a fight sequence, but we don?t hear it continuing, nor see it break off- keeps this one from first.

1st place: Entry 10. Once again, the fighters are also great actors. A wonderfully balanced fight, and I retract my previous statement- the slow motion does a wonderful job of illustrating how a single mistake ended the fight. From simply testing the opponent?s defenses to an all out attack, both combatants performed wonderfully. A great job of a double-bladed saber versus a single-bladed without resorting to tired old TPM choreography, and ending on a single-saber vs. single-saber was perfect.

Honorable mentions:

Entry 2: At times, the choreography is a bit slow, and if one combatant suddenly swung quickly, the fight would be over. But it is a very enjoyable display of wire-work prowess, and does a great job of incorporating the wires into the choreography itself.

Entry 6: When going for style, this is how you do it. The Jedi is really fighting a mental battle against himself, it seems, and the style really works for it, instead of just being gratuitous. However, I never got a real sense of danger (except for the Jedi?s sanity) from the fighting, which even with a lot of style could still have been achieved.

Entry 17: A very good attempt at a free-for-all. What keeps this down is when all three are fighting. There?s obviously a focus point, where you should be looking, and it looks fantastic if that?s where you look- but if you look at the third combatant, you realize that they often miss the opportunity to strike whoever they?re standing next to. Sometimes it seems like a 2 vs. 1, and sometimes a free-for-all, leading to it getting a bit confusing.

Entry 20: A very stylistic piece, which I think managed to hurt it a bit. It often moves a bit slow, resulting in a lot of missed opportunities. Still, it is a very enjoyable watch.

Entry 22: Though slow in points, this is the best display of people teaming up against one person I?ve seen yet. Oddly enough, the fight is worse when it?s a 1 vs. 1 than when it?s a 2- or 3-on-1. Great use of dual wielding- this Sith really looked like he knew what he was doing, usually blocking with one saber and attacking with the other.

Entry 26: The cinematography hurt this one a lot, as it?s often hard to tell where strikes are. The choreography is great, but it?s just not displayed too well. I know that we shouldn?t be judging on presentation of the choreography, but it matters, especially with this one.

 

Upon further examination, you can see it was two very closely matched shots with a short transition.

Upon further examination, you're wrong!

 

Explain yourself now.

 

I voted.

 

Reviews of the first seven, with real-time reactions followed by a sumamry:

#1
Reactions:
0:06 "My name is Neo."
0:12 He'd look more at home with a fishing pole.
0:20 Good so far. I like that big swing.
0:25 Elbow and kick are kinda wimpy-looking.
0:29 More wimpiness. Gotta sell that better.
0:40 "My opponent is standing there with his guard down. Better make sure I only hit him with the hilt; I wouldn't want to kill him or something."
1:07 Too many of these little poses.
1:12 Nice finish.

This one is OK. The fighters and filmmakers know what they're doing. However, the speed of the fight is only mediocre, they don't sell their kicks and punches very well, and there's too much posing.

#2
Reactions:
0:07 "It's a beautiful da-a-a-a-y?"
0:10 Two grownups. Kewl.
0:14 Ooh, wires.
0:18 Decent footwork and speed so far, but it looks a little "dancey."
0:20 Wire jump was a little slow.
0:24 Cool flying, but slow.
0:29 Nice change to overhead shot.
0:31 Good stick work and slick behind-the-back block.
0:50 Again the flying is cool, but slow. And in the switch from forward to backward motion he looks obviously pulled and his shirt gets pulled up in back.
1:00 Nice change of pace and tension building.
1:18 Probably wouldn't feel it as much with lightsabers or swords, but with just sticks it's a little long without much happening.
1:20 Flying seems a little pointless.
1:27 Bono looks cool with the big one-handed strokes.
1:38 Good idea, but the Force Push just doesn't really work without sound and FX.
1:42 Why'd he look at the camera?
1:55 Oops. Visible wires.
1:59 Slo-mo is a good idea, but the wirework is already slow.
2:01 What are they looking at? And looking up together like that looks like a dance move.
2:05 A kid! Oops! The wire's pulling up his shirt.
2:13 Aww, I wanted to see what happens.

Overall, this is very good, and deserves major kudos just for executing wirework. I'd love to see it with 'scoped sabers and sound effects ? I hope that will happen. The sabers are handled well, and the fighters are reasonably athletic too. However, I thought the fighters often looked like they were dancing with each other rather than trying to kill each other. More intensity would have improved the fight. Just seeing wirework in a fanfilm is very cool, but the wirework itself was rather slow moving. More speed on the wires would have put this fight over the top to one of the best ever. But overall, again, this was very good, and it left me wanting more, which is the true test. I'll consider this for my top three.

#3
Reactions:
0:14 The fighters need to move their feet more.
0:15 Pose is held a little long.
0:24 Move. Your. Feet.
0:26 Blaster Girl (that is a girl, right?) needs to sell it more. She doesn't look like she's trying to kill someone.
0:28 The blaster blocks are surprisingly good. But you're allowed to move your feet.
0:43 They look like their shoes are nailed to the ground.
0:44 Taking turns trying to kill the guy?
0:45 The blocks look good, though.
0:54 Looks like he's fainting, not being electrocuted.
1:00 That's it?

This is a nice effort. The best part is the blocking of the blaster bolts, which looks pretty convincing. Overall, however, I think the film suffers from what appears to be the filmmakers' lack of experience. The main problem is footwork. The fighters sometimes look as if their shoes are nailed to the ground, and often they end up in very awkward positions from lack of foot movement. Choreography has to involve the whole body, especially the feet, not just the arms. There's also a lack of intensity and "selling"; the fighters don't look much like they're trying to kill each other. Finally, the fighters seem to be taking turns attacking, a common problem in multi-opponent fights.

#4
Reactions:
0:06 Something different for the beginning. I like that.
0:14 Never make your actors run uphill.
0:16 Nice clothesline! Of course, a lightsaber would probably be even more effective than an arm.
0:34 Grabbing fingers is kinda cool, but I can't understand w

 

I would just like to point out that in Entry 7 - one of my personal favourites - the sudden rotoscoping seems to be there because the actors are igniting prop blades on the double bladed saber that wouldn't otherwise be visible - and hence were necessary to communicate the choreography.

I really liked seeing retractible lightsaber choreography in this entry and humbly offer major kudos to the creators - I would also like to congratuate them on filming in the dark. A very ambitious idea.

Reviews to come later.

-Spiff

 

All the entries were very impressive, but the ones that stood out the most to me were #8 and #10. I'm still trying to decide which one I'll vote for.

Choreography-wise, I feel that 8 & 10 were both better than any OT lightsaber duel,and comparing them to the PT,they even manage to hold their own.

Great work guys!

I'm curious as to the names of the 'combatants' in clips 8 & 10 and what formal training they've had in sword technique. My father-in-law in Japan who's been studying Kendo for over 15 years watched both of these clips and was also very impressed.

 

Reviews of 8 - 14:

#8
Reactions:
0:33 Nice circling shot. I like those.
0:39 Good start, nice speed.
0:51 B-t-b blocks that look convincing, very nice.
1:01 Cool FX jump.
1:08 Saw an RvD rip-off coming, but blowing out the lights instead is a good touch.
1:15 Psst! Turn off your saber and he can't see you.
1:42 Nice Fight in the Dark.
1:42 Why are the lights on again, and why two shots of empty space?
2:00 "My opponent is stunned. I think I'll stand here and watch him instead of trying to kill him while he's helpless."
2:12 Elbow missed a little too obviously.
2:17 Way to finish him off.

I enjoyed this one. The fighters look like they're fighting, with only a few "dancey" moves. Changes of pace and camera distance keep things interesting, although more close-ups would have added intensity. The jump FX was good. The only part I hated was when the one guy got knocked down and the other guy just looked at him ? that's probably my most hated fanfilm cliché. But very good overall. I'll consider this for my top three.
*****************
#9
Reactions:
0:08 "Hey Kids, let's desecrate a cemetery!"?
0:25 Good speed so far.
0:28 Slippery ground.
0:33 Point-five deduction for touching the ice.
0:34 "My opponent slipped on the ice and is in a vulnerable position. What should I do? I know, I'll stand here and wait for him to recover."
1:08 All very nicely done. At the same speed. At the same distance.
1:31 Does that mean his two-blader got cut in half? Ugh.
1:33 It really wouldn't be fair to hit a guy when he's down?
1:45 What just happened?
1:45 If that's a lightsaber, I think he just set his jacket on fire.
2:02 Huh?

This is good overall, but I think it's another one that doesn't live up to the fighters' potential. These guys are have plenty of skill and are very quick with their sticks. The choreography was effective, albeit not particularly creative. From a cinematic standpoint, however, there are problems. First, the pacing is pretty uniform ? fast all the way through. No matter how good the fighters are, fight scenes need changes of pace to hold attention. The shots are also pretty uniformly middle distance. More close-ups would have helped a lot to add intensity. The ice and snow also provided an opportunity for lots of creative choreography, but the filmmakers didn't take advantage of that.
******************
#10
Reactions:
0:15 "Some assembly required."
0:32 "Whoosh!" "Whoosh!" Who needs lightsaber sound FX?
0:55 Nice dodge.
1:01 Coulda sold that one better.
1:17 Those occasional grunts really add intensity.
1:28 That was a little less convincing.
1:35 Saw that coming.
1:45 Slick.
2:04 Ouch! That was good, but a broken nose or some blood or something would add to it.
2:10 Nice.
2:43 Well-sold kick.
3:12 The ending's a little abrupt.

Wooo. This one is very smooth and professional. Pretty much flawless, in fact. Very fast, very intense, good selling, lots of different moves ? it's better than the fights in many professional films. Even the spins and flourishes and behind-the-back stuff fit in seamlessly and look like they're actually part of a fight. The only thing lacking is novelty. With the exception of taking the saber apart and stealing half of it ? which lost some of its effect because I saw it coming ? I didn't feel like I was watching anything I'd never seen before. But it was excellent nonetheless. I enjoyed it a lot. I'll consider this for my top three.
**********************
#11
Never, ever, use bagpipes in a movie again.
*********************
#12
Reactions:
0:14 Hey! Dialog!
0:16 "I sense danger. Better split up and make it more dangerous."
0:18 A-a-and random guy walks through background. No excuse for that in a digital movie.
0:30 Wait, how long has he had his lightsaber on?
0:35 A little dancey so far.
0:38 Timing and distance were way off.
0:40 What's with the wobbling?
0:48 "Here, I'll hold up my stick so you can hit it with your stick."
0:55 Is he supposed to be paralyzed or something?
0:58 Switching to a close-up is good, but he doesn't exact

 

Ok, a little bit of a downer here but it needs to be mentioned and I'm very surprised that no one has brought this up yet. I'm going to be very vague and not mention names but you may be able to figure out what I'm getting at. Someone on this forum has done some things that is a major conflict of interest where this competition is concerned. I'm not saying that this person did these things out of malice or devious reasons but it is however possible. As such, that person should have distanced/removed him/her self from certain aspects of this competition so as to have not created said conflict of interest. Please keep in mind that no one is above reproach, no one. I personally am giving this person the benefit of the doubt and bear no ill will whatsoever but my partner in my entry is very, very upset over this issue and has a point, if there is going to be a conflict of interest, do something to avoid it.

 

How, exactly, is there a conflict of interest if the only way to win is by getting the popular vote?

That said, if you've got an issue, air it, and see if it doesn't get fixed. It's a bit late in the game to do it now, though.

 

my favorites are:

1st: 02 smooth, and inovative
2nd: 10 very quick, and nice decapatation
3rd: 27 Lots of cool ideas

 

#11
Never, ever, use bagpipes in a movie again.

Bagpipes or no bagpipes, I think you owe it to this entry a review it like the others.

 

Ryan, how many stunt blades did you need?

 

I think 1st should be #10 then #8 for second.

 

Let's save questions targeted at specific entries for after the polls close and we post the list of who did which.