Lightsaber combat in d20

So, what's the best way to run a cinematic lightsaber duel using the d20 rules? My first combat between the PC Jedi and an NPC Dark Jedi lasted 4 rounds, with both standing toe to toe taking damage. It turned into a battle of VP/WP attrition, and ended with the PC skewering the NPC.

It was little more than hack and slash, though I definitely didn't want it to be. I reread SW Gamer #1, and realized I should have had the NPC fight defensively or use total defense to make it a bit more interesting.

Other ideas? How do you run duels so that they're elegant, and not hack 'n slash?

 

Hmmm, How about livening it up?..having the big npc just stand there is kinda boring. Use the room! Have the baddie jump around, make the PC chase em! Use dirty tricks. That should make it more interesting.

 

Mechanics are mechanics in any system, but the meat is in the description. Envision what the npc is doing, dodging, feinting, watch old swashbuckler movies and you'll learn how to add color to those black and white die rolls.

A good RPG source for this is Amber Diceless Roleplaying. Or read some Zelazny who always knew when to either gloss through an unimportant fight (such as when Bleys kills thousands ascending the staircae of Mt. Kolvir) or when to draw out the details. (when Corwin and Eric square off each other in a grudge duel.)

 

I did one with my group a little while ago and through in a few little thugs to keep it intresting. Basicly I had the NPC go Defensive to start, let the thugs take the Offense, and put as much description as needed to keep the player in awe.

 

The best system for sword combat I've ever found is a game called Lace & Steel. It uses cards to simulate combat. It is quite hard to score a hit in the system, but when you do, they tend to be quite fatal, which is an accurate simulator of lightsabre duels. You also have the option to feint, riposte, lock blades and disarm. They can be fairly easily converted for the d20 system (though work slightly better with d6). I am working on producing some cards with lightsabre combat pictures on them, taken from the movies and various fan films.

If you can find Lace and Steel, snap it up and read its combat, there is nothing quite so tense as when there are no dice roles, just the luck of the cards and your skill in the hand.

 

I agree with Benkobi on using the room. Its rare that there is nothing in a room that can be thrown at someone. have the dark jedi use the force to hurl something at the jedi, if the player dosen't say dodge, then guess what he just got hit, which could lead to the character being stuned or knocked off his feet. Now some people will say the book says that the dark jedi would have to roll to hit the jedi with the move-object skill. Why? the jedi is not attempting to block or dodge, so what the dark jedi's eyes see is what the force controled object hits.

Also make your npcs a level or more higher than your pcs, this give your pcs more of a challenge. So if they try to go toe to toe thinking they can roll themselves to victory, they'll get a shock when they realize the damage they've delt the enemy would have killed them if they had recieved it.

In my first module our GM put the 4 of us, all 1st lvl, against a 4th lvl dark jedi, it took three of us to take him down, the fourth team member ran, he had done his job by getting us past security systems, this wasn't his fight. I was on the catwalk giving support fire inbetween shooting battledroids, while the two jedi in our team did their best to stay alive, one was on all out defence. what made him tough wasn't his level but how the GM was using his abilities to the max, we had to think and use our surroundings to win instead of roll the dice and hope we hit.

good luck.

 

I had an idea for a fanfilm once, I called it Insult Lightsaber Fighting (based on Insult Sword Fighting, from Monkey Island,)

Maybe you could pass the same use onto role play.

-'You fight like a moisture farmer'

~'How appropriate you fight like a dewback'

lol!

 

Description is important (very important), but location is important too. You should pick some place exotic. Cloud City, The Death Star, the power plant under Theed, were all exotic and visually interesting places to do a lightsaber battle. When Runeknight went after a Dark Jedi, I did it in a hanger (boring). The next Jedi lightsaber battle I did was in a city floating on the water during a huricane. Great location, but I don't think I did a good enough job on the description to give the location justice.

Good Luck

 

Yep, if you know your PCs will meet your Jedi / Fallen Jedi / Dark Jedi at a precise place, do your best to make a precise description of the room. Draw plans, and when the PCs enter the arena, describe them everything that their characters can see. Unless they're very experienced players or have an especially good reason to think your NPC is greatly superior to them, they will not note all the details, but they'll have been warned and they won't have to complain "but you didn't say there was a shelf in which you could have hidden the grenade that just blew" or so on. They'll have to be cautious and thoughtful if you place them in a detailed environment, and if you give it a little forethought, you'll guess what moves the PCs are likely to take and the best way to counter them (don't hesitate to add a few more details when figuring how your villain can foil the PCs, an intelligent villain always prepares escape routes or contingency plans when he's given the choice of the arena).

If the encounter takes place in an unexpected place, catching both parties flat-footed, then use details once more. A fight beginning because both parties accidentally met in the streets can be boring and reduced to dice rolls, but what if the streets are overcrowded ? Surely, your Jedi characters can't accomplish abnormal feats without falling under the scrutiny of those interested by the Jedi (if the fight takes place during the Empire, for an example, it's likely that several people will report to the local authorities, triggering a Jedi hunt). If your villain is evil or desperate, he always has the option to take hostages. Or perhaps the encounter is not that unexpected, and the villain retreats to lead the PCs into a trap where some of his minions are waiting, ready to fire.

So long as your PCs won't die with the first blow their foes deal them, feel free to act fiendish - the players will act fiendish too, and provided you grant them the proper means (or provided they find another one), they can beat almost any challenge without taking casualties. This is especially true with high-level characters. Do take good care of what you have 1st or 2nd level characters face - low-level characters can't take a beating and don't have that many resources or means to employ resources readily at hand.

 

I like the grenade on the shelf idea. I might use that.

 

What I have found to be really interesting, is to ask the players if they wish to roll a lightsabre combat or not. Sometimes, accurately describing what you're going to do, (ie The Sith Acolyte is swinging his Crimson blade towards you, coming in low to the left of your midsection, then slicing up). Then seeing how the player reacts, if he creates an appropriate defense and his stats allow him to be able to do it, then I allow it. But if the Sith Acolyte has a Dexterity of 19 and Weapon Finesse, then the Jedi is just gonna get his arse handed to him, granted I won't let the character die, but it'll be a brutal fight. We had an hour long saber duel(out of character) that was actually a twenty minute lightsaber duel In Character. It was very intense, I had Duel of the Fates going, the music from ROTJ when Luke fights Vader, and a few other operatic pieces going, it was rather excellent I believe. Hope this helps, peace out.

 

Sounds good. I might try that with my group.

 

I agree with everyone who said that location is important. It's more exciting to have a fight on catwalks over a raging volcano, or in the pitch dark, or how about a derelict space ship (zero gravity anyone?) than inside a plane, square equipment shed (lol). Also, try making a detailed map of the area and use the terrain to your advantage. Are there claustrophobic corridors? A bar crowded with aliens? Things to climb over, jump onto and off of, crawl under, etc.?

Another thing my group does to add flavor to duels is to try to come up with different tactics that fit with a character's feats and to put the PCs up against enemies that use very different tactics. For example if the PC is a strong lightsabre fighter, make the dark jedi use standoff tactics, using Force Push to keep his distance and then throwing Force Lightning. Or perhaps throw several weaker dark jedi backed up by someone who uses Knight Mind or Master Mind at the characters. And if the dark jedi can take more attacks per round than the heros, try to use that to his advantage.

 

Design of the Sith is important too. I don't use the standard bad guys in the books because I prefer to create my own from scratch. I do this because I want to create a flavor to their fighting. In other words, I decide on how they are going to attack, and built skills and feats around their own style. One Sith lord was Darth Bind. His opening attack was pulling the lightsaber out of a Jedi's hand with move object. I maxed out Bind's move object score. Bought skill emphisis on his move object. His heighest stat was int, again to help with move object. The Jedi player was horrified when Bind yanked the light saber out of his hand (the Jedi's ownly weapon), and then cut it in half.
Always carry a spare......... he.he.HAHHAHA

 

Oo another idea, take saber and destory it infront of the character(note to self remember to bring sword that night). Yeah, I refuse to use the generics they're just so... well generic.

 

jim eh? do u like ur name JIM? EH? UH? DO U JIM? OF COURSE U SHOULD STAY IN SCHOOOL AND JIM DONT DO DRUGS JIM. EH? JIM? JIM? JIM?JIMMY BOY!

 

For saber dueling, most of what people posted is right on the money- location is everything. As for having the NPC fighting defensively, I seriously consider that statement since I assume he was EVIL and I don't think an evil Jedi would fight defensively unless he was already losing.

Location is so important, that why the lightsaber duels in the Star Wars movies keep getting better. First it was Obi-Wan and Vader in the landing bay, then Cloud City, and then the Emperor's Throne Room, and finally the Theed Palace Generator (the problem with the last one was there was too damn much going on around the combatants). Anyhway, the location for the duel is of paramount import- there should be lots of place for them to go, up and down, multiple levels, you could even draw little maps of rooms or platforms, and forget everything else (i.e. passage ways on how to get there, just assume they do).

Something else I considered doing when I read this thread was perhaps change the rules a little. Allow them to do a Force powered Leap as a Free Action once per round or every other round. Now they can change levels quickly. (Remember when Maul used the Force to smash the piece of debris into the door console to open it? Thinsg like that). Another thing you might try is tell the PC playing the Jedi that every time he beats someone in saber combat he'll get a level or half a level out of it, but base it on performance and creativity, and not just who wins initiative.

The other problem is with the D20 system itself. Most lightsaber duels in the books and movies are over with 1 strike. That is a little hard to recreate in a game, especially if the characters fighting have 80 hits or something. It's a little easier in AD&D where you aren't usually using weapons that should be one hit take downs. I had a friend who suggested lightsaber dueling be done using the Bushido rules, which does have one hit take downs, but that is largely unheroic.

 

Interesting ideas. Anyone else have any suggestions?

 

About caring a spare....

if it was that easy to disarm a Jedi, do you think that experienced fellows like Obiwan and Qui-Gon would not have carried a second?

You don't carry a second blade for the same reason you don't marry more than one partner. The blade is an extension of yourself and the only reason for a Jedi to be disarmed is incompetence.

Given the thematic differences between Star Wars and Dungeons and Dragons, a GM should be very careful before allowing the wholesale use of the Sword and Fist feats. A lightsaber is more than just another kind of swrod.

 

I agree about the hp/vp, with those it defeats the effectiveness of the lightsaber. to make the sabers effective make them deal wound damage only. If you survive a hit you lost something, and full damage is given if a critical hit is rolled, which on the average is death. That would also make the people playing jedi think before attacking, if they don't they could end up dead. In the end a single blade or double blade saber is a tool of death as is any weapon. No matter if the person holding it has good intentions or not.

I have a 6th lvl Jedi Consular, I never drew my weapon until last module and that was against sith gaurdian spirits, which it was useless. The people I play with are luckyI'm a player and not a GM of starwars, because for every person a jedi kills,whether in defense or not, they would recieve a DS point. The main reason is because they are the type to shoot first and ask later, and in this game at the end of a blaster or lightsaber battle there is no one left alive to answer questions.

Just another 2 cents worth.

 

I agree about the hp/vp, with those it defeats the effectiveness of the lightsaber. to make the sabers effective make them deal wound damage only. If you survive a hit you lost something, and full damage is given if a critical hit is rolled, which on the average is death. That would also make the people playing jedi think before attacking, if they don't they could end up dead. In the end a single blade or double blade saber is a tool of death as is any weapon. No matter if the person holding it has good intentions or not.

This will basically force ANY level Jedi characters almost never draw their light sabers unless they have to. It will also force them to rely on other weapons, not very Jedi-like, IMHO. It also means that combat between Jedi in which there is a difference between saber damage cresting levels, that is the damage bonus given to Jedi when they reach levels 6, 12 & 18, probably won't happen, because the player will know the higher level Jedi opponent is a.) more likely to hit, and b.) will probably kill him on if not the first, then the second successful strike. As an example a 6th level Guardian doing 2d8 with say, 14 WP, would never challenge a 7th level, doing 3d8, and the average damage being 13.5. You're going to have a lot of cowardly Jedi Knights wandering around afraid to get into a duel with someone even 1 level higher than they are.

I have a 6th lvl Jedi Consular, I never drew my weapon until last module and that was against sith gaurdian spirits, which it was useless. The people I play with are luckyI'm a player and not a GM of starwars, because for every person a jedi kills,whether in defense or not, they would recieve a DS point.

That's just plain ridiculous. Punishing heroic actions, very nice.


The main reason is because they are the type to shoot first and ask later, and in this game at the end of a blaster or lightsaber battle there is no one left alive to answer questions.

Find another game. If this is how they play, then may I suggest "Dungeon Hack"? Admitedly, if all they are doing is killing everyone they meet, then a.) they are not heroic, and b.) the Jedi character(s) are NOT Jedi. It's the same as people playing murerous paladins in AD&D, when you play a Jedi you have certain ethical and moral standards to uphold, and murdering people is not one of them.

The system is fine as it is. It's up to the GM to make the battle exciting. Remember, regardless of the era of play, when the Jedi hero gets into a saber duel with a Dark Jedi, he or she is in the spot light for the duration of the fight, and it's the GM's job to make that exciting, not only for the Jedi player, but for his fellow players who should sit quietly and watch.

 

Well said.

 

My suggestions to spice-up lightsaber combat in d20:

a.) USE MUSIC!!! My GM uses music most of the game, whether it be the open scorlling dialogue to describe the current seeting all the way to the final credits/awards music at the end of a game or campaign. Flying through an asteroid field, music. Blaster shoot-out, music. You get the idea... It makes the game much more cinematic, and that much more impressive. Our player team gets very creative, and I have to attribute alot of it to the music.

b.) ENCOURAGE DESCRIPTION!!! Whether it be an excited, "I like that!!!" or some xp award for the most descriptive combatant, award your players for their creativity and description. Good ideas have been mentioned about free actions to Force Leap, etc... Awards like that encourage great roleplaying, something EVERYONE needs at some time or another.

c.) MAKE THE NPC'S NASTY!!! My character had to fight a Dark Jedi 3 levels higher than he was (6th vs. 9th). The higher-leveled Dark Jedi, being consumed by the Dark Side of the Force, was more cumbersome and flagrant with his attacks, hardly ever using defensive postures. My character, on the other hand, was thinking clearly and was able to fight defensively, use tumble and generall out-maneuver the opponent. Playing smart in a lightsaber duel can not only save your character and help you win against insurmountable odds, but it can also lead to some very dramatic and intriguing scenarios.

d.) GM MUST BE OPEN!!! Some GM's don't like combat, others love it. Either way, the GM should remain patient and open with their players. Some players are better at descrptive combat while others struggle...help those struggling players.

e.) BE RELAXED!!! If a player, or the GM for that matter, is not relaxed around the other players, NOTHING will be dramatic. Feeling embarassed or nervous can ruin a game faster than I can spit. Just sit back, relax, and let your mind float out there... I am blessed with an exceptionally great GM, and a few very good players. We have all known one another for years, so we are relaxed and comfy with acting goofy, dramatic or however else we want to act.


One of my favorite villains that we encountered was a Dark Jedi that had been acting as an "ally" of ours to stop a noble bent on the destruction of his planetary neighbor. Well, we stopped the noble, but the problem was under our noses in our supposed ally. After thrusting his lightsaber into a fellow PC (roller crit hit, it sucked), I used Quick Draw and Heroic Surge to close the distance and I cut his lightsaber in half. I decsribed the scene in about three or four sentences, explaining the look of concentration on my face as well as the yell I was making, etc... During the combat, I rolled a critical hit, but asked the GM to save it for the grand finale hit to kill the NPC, allowing us to continue the combat further...making it much more dramatic and exciting. The GM said it was a great idea and when he felt that the villain had proven himself a worthy opponent and did the story justice, the critical hit was applied and the villain was struck down.

Anyways...sorry for the lngthy post, but those are my suggestions.

-Maj Odo-Taji

 

"This will basically force ANY level Jedi characters almost never draw their light sabers unless they have to"

Well techniquely they shouldn't draw them until they have to.

"It will also force them to rely on other weapons, not very Jedi-like"

I agree, but they shouldn't have to rely on other weaopns, they have regular skills and force skills that they can use. I used a combination of Friendship and diplomacy on a sith to have her forgo killing off one of the players.