Lightsaber Glow Tests - Which one is better?

Hello all, I am having trouble deciding which lightsaber glow "look" to go with when rotoscoping so I though I'd post two test clips here to see if any of you would be willing to give me your opinion on them. One has the color balance highlights set to 74. The other, 100.

The problem with "74" is that the colors aren't as vibrant and are very slightly dimmer as a result. The problem with "100" is that you get "seperation from the core" where the glow itself seem to be just a hair detached from the saber core. This is more noticeable when the blade is fanning.

Please let me know what you think. Thanks.



Files are in the QuickTime format.

Lightsaber Glow Test - Highlights = 74 (size = 5.84mb)...
http://s6.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2ECQ54K75MKH434PHRDKKTJTAB

Lightsaber Glow Test - Highlights = 100 (size = 5.86mb)...
http://s7.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2IC8RKSC1JHXT0P0CKUBUCRRNM

 

Im DL the clip now... let ya know what I think in a minute...


First of all, pretty nice job on the sabers, as I know how tough it is to rotoscope in the dark, secondly, I'd stick with the 74, simply because the blades seem slighly smoother and I didn't really see that much of a difference in terms of how vibrant the colors were.

 

74 without a doubt.

The lighting can really reduce the visability of the blade (Take Contract of Evil, Half the time you couldn't see their sabers very well), but you're ok since the footage is obviously at night.

 

I agree, 74.

 

I like 100 best



--Darth Ricmu--

 

Hey dude - nice rotoscoping, and pretty good choreo there... I always like to see a blade retracting

As for the compositing... Can you link up a raw frame? I would like to illustrate what I think the blades should look like, rather than try to type it all out - though I'll type out my thoughts anyway.

The "brightness" of these sabers looks better with the highlights at 100... however, I think the actual glow radii too small, and the sabers are too saturated. While the lighting of the scene is reasonably consistent with the tungsten/sodium light in the background, if the sabers are this red or this blue, you would expect to see a more illuminating effect. Bringing down the saturation will help integrate them a little better.

I would also consider adding some noise to the sabers themselves - look at the noise on the glow in the light in the background... Because your sabers are in a region of the image that has been crushed to black, you can't see the noise in the saber glows - but it should be there to sell the effect. Futhermore, consider how the glow in the background light is artifacting in this shot - it's much more vertical than it is horizontal (this is an effect of how a CCD is read out)... yet this also is not matched.

Finally - to help sell the ignitions and retractions or to make them more obvious (I wager recognition of ignition/retraction sequences needs to be knocked home as by default they go over people's heads) - consider adding an ignition flare.

-Spiff

 

Hi all, thanks for the input I appreciate it. I agree that "74" looks better as far as the glow diffusion looks but that "100" looks better for color and brightness/intensity.

Spiff, I agree about not having anough noise in the saber glows but I'm not sure how to add it and still get the same color brightness/intensity. I'm guessing that when you asked for a raw frame you meant an unroto'ed frame. Here be three...

[image=http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/Evil-Henchman/Various%20Pics/Unrotoedfootage-01.jpg]


[image=http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/Evil-Henchman/Various%20Pics/Unrotoedfootage-02.jpg]


[image=http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/Evil-Henchman/Various%20Pics/Unrotoedfootage-03.jpg]


What the heck, here are the pics roto'ed with 74 for the highlights...

[image=http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/Evil-Henchman/Various%20Pics/4LayerGlow-Highlights74-01.jpg]

[image=http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/Evil-Henchman/Various%20Pics/4LayerGlow-Highlights74-02.jpg]

[image=http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/Evil-Henchman/Various%20Pics/4LayerGlow-Highlights74-03.jpg]

... and here are the pics roto'ed with 100 for the highlights...

[image=http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/Evil-Henchman/Various%20Pics/4LayerGlow-Highlights100-01.jpg]

[image=http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/Evil-Henchman/Various%20Pics/4LayerGlow-Highlights100-02.jpg]

[image=http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/Evil-Henchman/Various%20Pics/4Layerglow-Highlights100-03.jpg]


Please, keep the suggestions coming. I'm looking for ways to improve.

Oh and Spiff, you may recognize the footage from my entry (Entry 07) in LCC3... only then, my blue saber was green. Thanks again for your positive comments.


EDIT: The video file and roto'ed pics I posted was using my 4 layer glow method. I also have a 5 layer glow method. In the 5 layer glow method I use highlight settings of 64 and 100 for the for the two different glow methods. Video and pics of the 5 layer glows to follow soon.

 

Overall the clip was good... your glow method is good. and I vote for the 74.

I do think the roto needs a little work as there are quite a few frames that have (in my opinion) "not so good" roto (mostly on the blue saber)... for example frames 03;07-03;10 and 03;17-03;20 it is evident the points on the blue saber are crossed. Also I would add contact flashes... but other than that, good clip, and keep it up. I hope to see more of that battle!

-Eamon

 

Actually the "crossed points" are intentional as that is the "center point" of where the saber blade itself rotated. Below are some of the frames you mentioned, unroto'ed. You can see that the prop saber blade looked that way as well.

[image=http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/Evil-Henchman/Various%20Pics/CrossedPoints01.jpg]
[image=http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/Evil-Henchman/Various%20Pics/CrossedPoints02.jpg]
[image=http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/Evil-Henchman/Various%20Pics/CrossedPoints03.jpg]

Yeah I know it would look better with contact flashes but I didn't add them or any sound effects as this is just a glow test. Thanks for the feedback.

 

I guess what I am trying to say is the rotation effect that you are rotoscopeing over is a double exposure of the blade on your film (probably just because they are moving real fast)... in other words you are rotoscopeing one lightsaber blade for two different frames at the same time. 2 rods = 1 saber per frame... when all you need is 1 rod = 1 saber per frame... Keep in mind that this is a my preference and is only worth my two cents... I just think it looks cleaner if you correct for the double blade exposure.

---double exposed frame---
[image=http://holocron.theblood.net/show/try1.jpg]
---single exposed frame---
[image=http://holocron.theblood.net/show/try2.jpg]

---Other frames---
[image=http://holocron.theblood.net/show/CrossedPoints02.jpg]
[image=http://holocron.theblood.net/show/CrossedPoints03.jpg]

Again just my two cents... *edit* and keep up the good work... it is just a small thing...

-Eamon

 

Ever notice that night footage kinda has the little spots moving around, like your eyes after beeing shot by a flash camera. Well that tends to make the sabers look fake as sometimes the sabers come out with great quality as teh video isnt quite up to par with it. Just thought I'd mention that, as I've been frustrated with rotoing night footage in the past because of it.

 

Eamon, I know what you're saying but I disagree. Let me explain why I believe I'm right. If you have a double-bladed lightsaber and you spin it from the center, both ends fan. Why? Because the "staff" is being rotated/swung from the center instead of near one of the ends. This is basically what is happening in my footage. Because of the way I moved my wrist and arm, the movement of the saber blade is happening from the center of the blade more than it is from the saber hilt. Of course this is easier to see when you have the unroto'ed footage so here be a link...

http://s4.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=28HWSIUEYMM3M3KKCZ0YFVKL77

 

I agree, my sabers look better than the footage. I'm not too sure what to do about that. Any ideas?


Edit: Oh and Spiff, I'll try lowering the saturation. Thanks.

 

I vote 74. Nice tracking of the sabers there.

 

74... Maybe the Saber retracking maybe needs to be a little more noticable. Maybe a flare before it completly goes away BUT maybe if you add sound then it will be more noticable. I really like the clip though.

 

I am not trying to argue with you... like I said it is just my opinion...

-Eamon

 

Oh I know. I didn't think you were arguing. I hope you didn't think I was. I like to see/hear everyone's opinion.

 

No I didn't think that ether... and I see your point as well.

I can't wait to see it with flashes and sound!!! (and in a fan film)

-Eamon

 

74
IMHO there are no perfect lightsaber effects, it's all in the taste

 

First of all, I thank you all of you for the feedback. So far the majority is for the highlights at 74 which is probably what I'll go with when using 4 layer glows unless I alter my method of doing the glows... which I may do soon. Aside from that, here are links to my 5 layer glow method.

This one has the highlights set to 64...
http://s8.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=158EVM2Q58QB41S84WTCEQ1QO6

... and this one has the highlights set to 100.
http://s7.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0FDH56CZ8M5X0L9930XZCF8ID

Please let me know which one you like better between these two as well as which one is better between using 4 layers and 5 layers. Thanks again.


Tom.. er, uh, I mean Evil H. Henchman Esquire.

 

Here be the stills...

5 Layer glows with the highlights set to 64...

[image=http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/Evil-Henchman/5%20Layer%20Glows/5Layers-Highlights64-01.jpg]

[image=http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/Evil-Henchman/5%20Layer%20Glows/5Layers-Highlights64-02.jpg]

[image=http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/Evil-Henchman/5%20Layer%20Glows/5Layers-Highlights64-03.jpg]



5 Layer glows with the highlights set to 100...

[image=http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/Evil-Henchman/5%20Layer%20Glows/5Layers-Highlights100-01.jpg]

[image=http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/Evil-Henchman/5%20Layer%20Glows/5Layers-Highlights100-02.jpg]

[image=http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/Evil-Henchman/5%20Layer%20Glows/5Layers-Highlights100-03.jpg]

 

74 looks better. 100 has too much glow. A more subtle glow is better looking. I'll be posting pics of my solution to rotoscoping night fights. God bless electroluminescent wire!

-Crimsus

 

I hear ya. For a lot of my shots for this fight (not shown here), I had glowsticks inside of polycarbonate tubing. The blades shown in this part of the fight are the same polycarbonate tubes but have duct tape over the entire tube with white tape in 4 different places.

I'm definately looking into different methods of lighting up polycarbonate blades as glowsticks make the blade heavy and help cause stress cracks. Also I want to try a smaller diameter tubes that glowsticks would not fit in.

I will definately have the blade ALWAYS lit up during EVERY scene if I ever film a saber battle at night again.