Lightside capable of clouding?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by FogeyKenobi, May 17, 2003.

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  1. FogeyKenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2003
    star 1
    I was wondering...

    Is the Lightside of the Force capable of "clouding" things also?

    Think about it. We all know Yoda has stated in the prequels that "the Darkside clouds everything". Did the Force assist in hiding the existence of the Skywalker twins from the emperor and Vader?

  2. senseless_apprentice Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2002
    star 2
  3. TheDiva Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2003
    star 2
  4. DarthBellikose Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2003
    star 1
    Its one of those 'certain point of view' answers.
    This has been discussed quite recently. I think that in TPM and AOTC the sith are clouding the Jedi but its possible that in ROTJ that the Emperors powers are clouded by the fact the a Jedi has returned. It could be the 'Father and Son' connection but the Emperor could not sense when Luke was on Endor like Vader could. It is possible that his powers were slightly clouded ???
  5. TK-101788 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2003
    star 3
  6. Scott3eyez Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2001
    star 4
    No.

    The Jedi philosophy (a.k.a. "lightside"...) is all about following the Force.

    The Dark Side is about manipulating the Force, which causes a disturbance, which "clouds" things...

    Here's what I posted elsewhere;

    Imagine a Sith and a Jedi, looking into the future.

    They both see a fight in a cantina. A dude gets shot in cold blood.

    The Sith doesn't like it, goes and has a word with the poor soul who got shot and tells him to be a bit more alert with his trigger finger.

    As it turns out, thanks to the intervention of the Sith, and their manipulation of fate, the dude gets a shot off but gets killed anyway.

    The point being that what happened was different to what the Jedi saw happening, because of the interference of someone using the Force for their own personal ends (ie. the Dark Side.) It clouded the future, making things "hard to see" for the Jedi.

    That's my theory anyway...
  7. Darth_Meatloaf Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2002
    star 1
    I figured that things would get clouded because you would have to delve into that kind of force use to sense what is going on. The darkside clouds everything because everything around them is being manipulated through the darkside. Unless the Jedi give into their emotions and look into the darkside the cannot see because of the darkside. The same works in reverse. That's why Palpatine couldn't sense Luke. Anakin could because Anakin crosses the line in both directions. He makes no distinction in dark or light. He was trained as a Jedi first allowing him knowledge to access the light side as well as trained by Palpy giving him access to the dark. Palpy only knows the dark and since Luke isn't manipulating anything in his path the Emporer knows he is coming since that can be seen through all of the force but he uses the light side of the force to manipulate events with getting to Endor therefore Palpy can't see them.
  8. vw_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2002
    star 4
    well considering there are 2 sith in the galaxy, and 10,000 jedi, and the jedi are the ones being clouded i would have to say no. if it only takes 2 to cloud the minds of 10,000 i would think that clouding is a sith/darkside trait.

    although i would consider the possibility based on the fact that yoda and obi wan were able to hide for so long...hmmmmmm....
  9. SaberGiiett7 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2002
    star 6
    "well considering there are 2 sith in the galaxy, and 10,000 jedi, and the jedi are the ones being clouded i would have to say no. if it only takes 2 to cloud the minds of 10,000 i would think that clouding is a sith/darkside trait."

    Fare enough, but you must factor in that Darth Sidious' technique's have been passed down for generations --- that accounts for the Jedi's ability to use the Force to 'diminish'.

    Apparently he is been aided by a unknown source (such as the Kaiburr Crystal) and the stress of numbers for the Jedi Order is far too taxing for them to track down the renegade Sithlords. :)

    Palpatine understands their flaw's because he is right amongst them on Coruscant.

    "although i would consider the possibility based on the fact that yoda and obi wan were able to hide for so long...hmmmmmmm...."

    Exactly + to that, that Obi-Wan Kenobi, Qui Gon Jinn, and Luke Skywalker were capable of clouding minds and that proves their able to.

    However a simple explanation for Yoda and Obi-Wan's elusiveness could easily be Palpatine's arrogence and false sense of security, there hermitage is both on a backwater planet, and most of their Force prescense's have flickered out substantially. :)

    <[-]> Saber
  10. generallee5 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2003
    star 3
    No. The Jedi can't cloud nothin. Yoda says that the DARK SIDE clouds everything, JUST THE DARKS SIDE. If your wondering why the Emporer couldn't since Yoda's presence, read Heir to the Empire, it says why somewhere in that book.
  11. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    "No.

    The Jedi philosophy (a.k.a. "lightside"...) is all about following the Force.

    The Dark Side is about manipulating the Force, which causes a disturbance, which "clouds" things... "


    Does this make Obi-wan a Dark-side user, when he "influenced", if not clouded, the "weak-minded" stormtroopers at Mos Eisley and on the DS?

    "if it only takes 2 to cloud the minds of 10,000 i would think that clouding is a sith/darkside trait."

    Or simply a power that no, or few, Jedi will use. Yoda can not only block Force lightning, but collect and redistribute it as well. Either he innately understood the nature of the attack, or he knows of this power (and simply chooses not to use it.)

    Remember that both Sith and Jedi have the ability to see the future and wield lightsabers. I don't think any power is truly limited to the Dark or Light side, just that there are certain powers that Jedi will use, whereas the Sith will use whatever means needed to get the job done.

    I do believe that the "clouding" is more of a side-effect of the Dark side itself, rather than simply a "power". Palpatine could be aware of this "interference", and manipulates it to its fullest effect.

    "although i would consider the possibility based on the fact that yoda and obi wan were able to hide for so long...hmmmmmmm...."

    "Exactly + to that, that Obi-Wan Kenobi, Qui Gon Jinn, and Luke Skywalker were capable of clouding minds and that proves their able to."


    Thus proving my point. Now the Jedi are using the "clouding" power, previously used by the Sith. The gloves are off in the OT. :D

    "Yoda says that the DARK SIDE clouds everything, JUST THE DARKS SIDE."

    Yeah, and when is the last time Yoda met a Sith? He's grasping in the dark (ba-dum-crash), trying to make sense of a 1000-year-old Jedi fairy-tale. It's pretty clear that between the PT and the OT, many of Yoda's thoughts and actions were wrong, and he's learned a few new tricks along the way.

    Remember, Yoda didn't believe that a Jedi could retain his identity in the Force, either. Oooops! [face_blush]
  12. Scott3eyez Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2001
    star 4
    >>>Does this make Obi-wan a Dark-side user, when he "influenced", if not clouded, the "weak-minded" stormtroopers at Mos Eisley and on the DS?

    Well, "A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defence", and he was defending himself, Luke and the droids...

    It depends on what you think the Dark Side is, I suppose- something that's never really been defined or properly explained by the films. (There was a theory I read in the Episode II SA forum (when that's what it was...) that every time a Jedi uses the Force, they are using the Dark Side...)

    I've tried to start threads on the subject before to try and get to the bottom of it, but they tend to sink like a stone.

    :(
  13. Iron_Fist Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2003
    star 5
    When Yoda says "The Dark Side clouds everything", he means that the power of the dark side is growing again: like when the sith were strong. The strength of the dark side began to rise as Palpatine put into motion his evil plans. Becuase the Jedi use the Light Side of the Force, if the dark side is growing stronger, it has the effect of diminishing their own light-side powers.
  14. Maulfly Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 7
    Wasn't part of the reason that Yoda could hide his powerful presence because there was that strong emination of the dark-side on Degobah that in effect clouded him to anyone hunting him through the Force?

    As for Obi-Wan, perhaps it's a combination of things. For one, he's not as strong in the Force as Yoda, so not as much power to dampen and hide. He's staying on a planet he knows the Empire would hardly be interested in (after all, in OT time it seems the Hutts were still a power there to some extent). That and Vader/Anakin likely would not want to go anywhere near the place.

    The light-side seems to be able to cloud only in the sense that it can influence the weakminded. It cannot hide the truth from those with a strong will (which a Sith would likely have...or at least know how to counter). It's the dark-side, by it's very nature, that seeks to cloud whatever it touches.

    Anyway, that's one possible way to look at it. :p
  15. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    "Wasn't part of the reason that Yoda could hide his powerful presence because there was that strong emination of the dark-side on Degobah that in effect clouded him to anyone hunting him through the Force? "

    So where is the "Dark Side" on Tatooine? Perhaps Obi-wan was using the Dark Side? ;)

    "For one, he's not as strong in the Force as Yoda, so not as much power to dampen and hide."

    Well, he's the only one who 1) comes back as a voice, 2) comes back as a Force ghost, and 3) returns to help Luke several times. At least he had the guts to face Vader - "I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."

    Draw your own conclusions. ;)
  16. Maulfly Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 7
    Ah, but is that "power" per sae or his close connection to the chosen one and the Force's ultimate will for the Galaxy? ;)

    If you go by what people have discussed in other threads, the ability to return after death is a sort of fluke ability connected with the whole chosen one and return to balance thing.
  17. Scott3eyez Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2001
    star 4
    >>>Wasn't part of the reason that Yoda could hide his powerful presence because there was that strong emination of the dark-side on Degobah that in effect clouded him to anyone hunting him through the Force?

    Pure E.U., I think. Maybe Episode III will touch on it when we (presumably) will see how Yoda ends up on Dagobah...

    I still think my theory near the top of the page explains the "clouding" thing though...
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