Like Kyp or dislike Kyp, what about YOU makes you decide on one or the other?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by NarundiJedi, Oct 26, 2001.

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  1. NarundiJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 6
    Well, there are a lot of threads that are redundant where Kyp fans and those who don't like Kyp go head to head about whether he's a hero or a villain, whether he's going to the dark side or not, blah blah blah blah. . .

    This thread is not one of those. Here in this thread I'm more interested in finding out what about YOU as a person makes you like or dislike him. Examples of this could look something like this: "I have a strong sense of right and wrong and what he does is in my mind wrong" or "I'm a proactive, spontaneous person, and I can relate to him better than, lets say, Jacen"

    Examples of posts that AREN'T on topic are:
    "He just plain sucks!" or
    "Because he's not a whuss like Luke"
    Remember, this thread is about you and what specific things about you make you feel one way or the other.

    I've already made my statement on this topic in another thread, but I'll repeat it. I am a Kyp fan because if someone were attacking my galaxy I would definitely want to be the first one out there fighting. I have a slight aggressive streak, especially when driving a car. I know, I'm bad ;) And I'm also a very spontaneous person and I hate any sort of rigid order to things. I just do things on a whim and then ask for forgiveness later. This is why I feel I identify with Kyp.

    There, now it's your turn :D

    Jae Angel
  2. exar-tull Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2001
    star 5
    i dislike his past actions, taking Kun up on his offer for revange and the billions and billions of people he killed.
  3. suncrusherX Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 3
    I think for myself and kyp does this. Luke says say no to sith. Kyp checks both out and chooses which is the right one.
  4. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    I like Kyp sometimes and dislike him at other times. Then again, I like myself at some times and dislike myself at others.
  5. Kier_Nimmion Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2000
    star 5
  6. JediJSolo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2001
    star 4
    Okay? I?m a person who has worked very hard on creating a set of personal morals that work for me. I am often idealistic when it comes to these morals, and so I can identify with Jacen more than I can with Kyp. The idea of doing something spontaneously and then asking for forgiveness later is against my personal morals. I must think something through before I act or I might hurt someone I didn?t intend to hurt.

    Occasionally I will do things spontaneously, and for me, it rarely works out. And so, I don?t like the spontaneous part of myself and Kyp simply represents the spontaneous part of me that I dislike. The arrogant part of me and the part of me that is willing to do anything to get what it wants are personified in the character of Kyp as well. I don?t think that Kyp is a bad person, I just see what I consider the worst aspects of myself in him, and that makes me believe that Kyp is not a very heroic character.

    I rarely see the best parts of my own personality demonstrated in Kyp.
  7. Nichos_Marr Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2001
    star 4
    Kyp Durron is an interesting character to say the least. After having worked in a spice mine for the good part of his life, I am sure it weakened his morale and lowered his spirits which made him susceptible to the Dark Side. After having been saved, he was immediately brought to the Jedi Academy, and began his training.

    After a period of time there, Exar Kun tried to come off as if he cared about Kyp's well being. Kyp fell for this facade, and began to use the Dark Side of the Force. Soon he was duped into doing Kun's "dirty work". That was until the others saved him. Before being brought back to the Light Side, he was responsible for the destruction of Carida, and Qui Xux's memory.

    Up to here is where I stop liking Kyp so much. In NJO, he seems ready to strike out and destroy the Vong. Wouldn't his reflections on his past wrong doings have any effect on his attitude? If it were up to me, I'd say he would be a little more like Luke, really calm and mellowed out. Instead of being aggresive and assertive, which would probably draw him back to the Dark Side.

    I hope Kyp doesn't turn again, and I still do like the character. I just think he needs to be revised. Too late, I guess...
  8. NarundiJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 6
    good post JediJSolo!! For those of you who haven't noticed, JediJSolo is THE MAN!!! :D

    Jae Angel

    PS- I must leave now, for I am being Sylvar for Halloween (another character just like myself, for those of you who haven't read TOTJ) and there is much fun to be had on Friday night at college :p
  9. Maverick15 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 22, 2001
    star 1
    Simmilar to Anakin Skywalker's predicament I feel Kyp was a walking time bomb ready to burst since day one. First his life is brutally shattered at the age of eight(Anakin?)when stormtroompers took him and his mother and father into the spice mines and separated him from his brother Zeth. There he toiled his @$$ off for 8 or so more years seeing nothing but pitch black and growing more dissolusioned with life day after day. During his tenure there he watches his mother and father wither away to almost nothing until they are killed in the crossfire of one of the many prison riots there. Miraculously he survives and formulates many of his thoughts and his attitude in the mines, learning life's lessons at an early age.
    Then miraculously he sees the light when he escapes with Han and Chewbacca but takes another hit when Dalla tortures him. He vows never to be helpless, and to aggressively attack his problems. THen when he meets Luke he finds out he is a very powerfuly force attuned and could be heir to an ancient organization of peacekeepers. This boggles his mind but he becomes one of the most hungry and dedicated of the original students wanting to know everything that can make him less vulnerable. It is soon shown that he is something of a prodigy in the force having absorbed Luke's teachings in a short amount of time. Luke is amazed at his student but sees that Kyp is vulnerable to the dark side because he is so strong, very ambitious, and at an early stage of learning(a very bad mixture as we already know). Luke cuts Kyp's superfast regimen and Kyp becomes disenchanted with the jedi philosophies because Luke won't teach him more, fast enough. He wants to hit the empire that screwed his life. He starts to show his unstable tendencies, often yelling at his fellow students(Tionne). When Mara Jade arives he flees on her starship for Endor where he formulates his view that he can become an avenger against the empire while still being a light sider while he looks at the remains of Darth Vader. Soon we find he has put Luke in a coma with the aid of Exar Kun because Luke was an impedement in his plan to regain the SUN CRUSHER. AT this point I would think Kyp had standard human emotions and I can't fault him for it. After giving Admiral Dalla a going away present curtesy of the Sun Crusher, he sets off for Carida and end's up blowing the planet up along with his brother(inadvertently). Keep in mind that high estimates place the population in the low millions because of it's military purposes(the academy) and there wasn't that much of a cicilian population. Anyway what kind of idiot would willingly place themselves on such a military target? There Kyp is captured by Han and Lando and is taken to Coruscant to be tried for war crimes. On Coruscant HE is told that it is Luke's decision whether he should be punished. After a trying adventure where he destroys the suncrusher he is absolved of further punishment than to forever be a jedi knight. Also part of the reason Kyp may have an aggressive stance is because if you were taken from a wasteland and placed in a beautiful galaxy I think you would make sure you kept that galaxy intact and you alive. And Moruth Doole, the guy who kept Kyp subjugated on Kessel toiling away, was a smuggler which is why he has some animosity towards them. Also he feels indebted to Han Solo most of all and is probably wearing the fancy cloak Han gave him. I had to skip some info so I could finish typing this so please don't say I forgot this and that.


    Oh and I like Kyp and I hope he becomes the tragic hero of the NJO
  10. Quiwan Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 4
    He sees a problem and does whatever it takes to solve that problem. Some may think he's harsh, they may call him a liar and question his motives.

    But years from now, when their children are alive and well because he did the dirty work that others weren't willing to do they'll be a little more understanding of his actions. Even if they disagree, at least they'll be alive and free to express that opinion.

    I like Kyp because he is just like me.
  11. Nichos_Marr Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2001
    star 4
    So parents will be thankful that Kyp destroyed hundreds if not THOUSANDS of innocent families on Carida, by simply pressing a button? No. Things like this can't just be forgiven by people.

    Will people ever forgive the terrorists that leveled the WTC buildings? Only a VERY small fraction of them will, if any at all.

    This is similar to Kyp's predicament, except he killed BILLIONS, not thousands. It doesn't seem like a serious matter when you read it in a book, but then try comparing it to similar RL situations.
  12. Maverick15 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 22, 2001
    star 1
    Again it never specified that Carida had billions of people. Actually it was very sparsely populated with mostly imperial personnel.
  13. Gandalf the Grey Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2000
    star 6
    Maverick15: Carida was not sparsely populated. It had its own native race, whose population numbered in the billions. There were billions of people who had absolutely nothing to do with the Empire. And Kyp killed them all.
  14. Nichos_Marr Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2001
    star 4
    And even if Carida didn't have billions, the death toll would at least be in the millions.
  15. ShinagamiWing Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2001
    star 4
    Why not like Kyp? He's just the opposite of Jacen, and there's no reason to like Jacen. Sorry, but I just don't like anyone who doesn't accept that they have to act righteously, no matter what their own desires may be. With great power comes great responibility - Kyp is a very skilled dude, and he knows that he can't just sit down and watch the world go by and see people die like certain Jedi do. He's come to know what that does firsthand, and I think he's one of the few people who has any idea how to handle the present crisis - by any means nescessary. Okay, so that's a bit extreme, but I think it's the truth.
  16. suncrusherX Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 3
    "here were billions of people who had absolutely nothing to do with the Empire. "

    really, they lived in the militant capital of the empire and had nothing to do with it?
  17. ShinagamiWing Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2001
    star 4
    Blech! Okay, the excerpt from SbS was good, but I'm just so upset! I mean, at the way Jaina is thinking... she thinks that the Yuuzhan Vong invaded the galaxy and tried to kill them all by mistake?! Okay, I'm reminded of a very famous quote from our very own President George W. Bush - "I don't think there be special punishmentation for hate crimes - after all, it is very hard to distinguish between a hate crime and a regular one. Uh, a crime."

    Ignoring the obvious dumbness of these two sentences and their structuring, let's look at what he was saying. Now, if an African-American is hung from a tree after having his face kicked in by a steel-toed boot thirty-seven times, and his skin cut with scars forming the letters "KKK" on his forearms and face... if that's too hard to distinguish from a Quick Stop getting ripped off, well, sorry. I must read too far into things.

    It's painfully obvious to everyone but these overtly moderate Jedi that the Vong did not try to invade the Star Wars galaxy because they thought they couldn't get it otherwise... that they did it to appease their gods. Have they ever seen a bigoted fanatic intent to hurt someone beacuse of their race or religion? I have, far too many times. I had a friend who was killed because she happened to like girls a bit too much for the tastes of others. I had a pen pal who was beaten daily by his peers at a Catholic school beause he wasn't a Christian. I've seen it happen, and although I always try to do something about it, there will always be hate in some people's hearts. Just because you grow up in an inviornment where tolerance is a constant, you think that it's like that everywhere. I wish that were true - but you can't have it both ways. You can't have tolerance and certain beliefs at the same time. The Yuuzhan Vong religion is obviously one that insists upon asserting its own supremacy upon all others. Far be it from the Jedi to try and change the belief systems of the Yuuzhan Vong, and far be it from them to fight them. So they can't win like this. I never thought I'd say it, but this is actual proof - Kyp Durron is right.
  18. Nichos_Marr Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2001
    star 4
    "really, they lived in the militant capital of the empire and had nothing to do with it?"

    How about Kashyyyk? It was a world enslaved by the Empire, yet the Wookiees had nothing to do with the Empire. I doubt the Caridans allowed the Empire to use a good portion of their planet to train troops. They were forced into doing it, just like Vader forced Lando into betraying Han in ESB.
  19. suncrusherX Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 3
    I don't buy that. I seem to remember some caridans who were typical imps, and then they were representative of their system.

    btw, Training/recruiting bases work much more efficiently when they are run on a planet devoted to the legal controlling authority.
  20. MaceWinducannotdie Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2001
    star 4
    I don't like the idea of anyone getting preferential treatment. There would be no all-powerful Jedi Master taking time out of his schedule to go to Coruscant and plead for Mon Mothma to be lenient on a Joe-schmoe smuggler type guilty of similar crimes. No! Then why should mister oh-I'm-so-special Jedi apprentice get off the hook? The future good Kyp does for the galaxy should be limited to cleaning whatever the GFFA has in terms of highways. That's probably more than the good that result from his current actions as a free man.

    "I just don't like anyone who doesn't accept that they have to act righteously, no matter what their own desires may be."

    Not only does Jacen continue to fight the Vong despite his complete abhorrence of violence, but even in the time he gave up on using the Force, he acted "righteously" enough by helping the refugees, IMO.

    "I don't buy that. I seem to remember some caridans who were typical imps, and then they were representative of their system."

    Even if a civilian populace generally supports the actions of its government, it is still a civilian populace and should be treated accordingly. Now surely there are plenty of Caridan civilians on planet.
  21. suncrusherX Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 3
    I'm not saying they aren't civilians. I was countering the idea that the caridans were in bondage like wookies are.
  22. NarundiJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 6
    wow, so you guys totally missed the point of the thread! I'm sorry, but there are other threads where you can discuss whether Kyp is wrong or right. Pay attention to the original goal of this thread or else I'll be forced to lock it! I mean, it's good that my threads get attention, but I was kinda hoping I could get some insight on you guys as fans, not on Kyp as a character.

    Jae Angel
  23. Knight1192 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    Respect. A fairly plain an simple word. At one time I held great respect for his character. However, it was when he developed this attitude of being so superior, using folks to get what you want, and shoot for then ask questions if there's anyone left to ask questions of that I lost my respect. He went form someone who upholds the law to someone who is the law. Who decides what's best to do and if anyone disagrees with that view, con em so you get your way. I can't have respect for that kind of person.
  24. ForceAlly Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2001
    star 2
    Like Knight1192, I don't like the Kyp in NJO because he shows no respect for other beings, whether they are stronger or weaker, superior or subordinate, friend or enemy. Because of this, the Kyp in NJO can't be reasoned with ideas different from his. And because of this, Kyp is willing to take extreme maneuvers that might lead to unrecoverable disasters.
  25. Padawan92 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 22, 2001
    star 4
    I dislike Kyp only because he thinks of only himself. What I mean is he goes against Luke in the NJO even though Luke saved his butt in the Jedi Academy Trilogy. Plus he uses Jaina to do what he wants because he knows he couldn't do it without someone Wedge trusted.
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