Like Kyp or dislike Kyp, what about YOU makes you decide on one or the other?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by NarundiJedi, Oct 26, 2001.

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  1. ShinagamiWing Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2001
    star 4
    Somtimes you have to do bad things to to the right thing. When the sfaety of the galaxy itself is in danger, I'm sorry, but the ends justify the means, or you die. Kyp knows it!
  2. Dark_Jedi_Skywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2001
    star 1
    I don't think the the ends can justify the means if you're a jedi. You could use the dark side to get the job done quicker, and easier. But after that you start to use is more, and more, until your a new dark lord, and end up causing more harm than there was before.
  3. NarundiJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 6
    Guys, for the last time, there are plenty of threads for arguing about whether Kyp is right or wrong, so if you want to do that then you can go and resurrect some of those threads. I mean, I'm hearing some great reasons for liking or not liking Kyp, but that's not the point of this thread. Read my first post to see what I'm talking about. Ahhhh, this is stupid. How can I expect to even keep anyone on topic when the title of a thread has the word "Kyp" in it? It seems like his name on a thread is like yelling "fire" in a crowded movie theater. I might as well just close this. . .::sighs::

    Jae Angel

    PS- I'm sick of Kyp! It's time for a non-Kyp thread!!
  4. NarundiJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 6
    Ok, so I'm a dumb newbie who doesn't know how to lock a topic. Somebody please help me!! :D

    Jae Angel
  5. exar-tull Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2001
    star 5
  6. NarundiJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 6
  7. GUARDSMAN Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2001
    star 1
    Well Im the type of guy that likes to do what he wants when he wants. Some would automatically think of me as a problem child, but Im actually the opposite. I do what Im told and follow most rules people put in front of me. I do this not because I have to but because of the rewards I get. Like being a little late for a class with a teacher who gives detention for it, but then in both cases he let it go. There is always one rule for me though and that is to keep my activities to a minimum risk for those that I care about. If I do soemthing crazy I only risk myself and my belongings and of course not get caught at the sametime.

    Now how does this reflect personality of mine effect my opinion of Kyp. Well he to does what he wants when he wants, but unlike me he just doesn't care what happens to those around him, as long as he's got the opportunity to get another rush. This is why
    I don't like him, he just doesnt care who he hurts as long as he gets his pride satisfied.
  8. NarundiJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 6
    Good one Guardsman! Maybe this thread won't need to be locked after all. . .

    Jae Angel
  9. Knight1192 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    You asked what it is about Kyp that puts me in the camp I'm in, the Kyp haters camp. I explained my reason and Have not launched into debate with others over their reasons. That seems to be what you're after, reasons for why folks are in the camps their in. Sadly, we both know that any Kyp thread, despite the purpose of the thread, may result in a debate, and possibly a flame war.
  10. ShinagamiWing Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2001
    star 4
    Okay, I'll try and do what you said, too... -sigh-. Right, so I myself am a freshman in high school. I'm definately a geek, but I'm not a nerd and I don't spend hours at a time on the internet spoiler-hunting - I usually just check to see when they've go news on the next NJO book. I have enough friends - certainly not popular, but I have my friends. I don't have glasses, I have no acne, and I sport no braces. I'm captain of my school's martial arts squad (somtimes I call us "Rogue Squadron - I'm considering putting a rogues patch on my Judo gi) and I like swimming. Now, why do I, as a fan, like Kyp? Basically, because he's not like me. Now, you might think that that means I hate myself - but I don't. I like who I am and I wouldn't trade it for the world. But Kyp has something I don't... the 'tude. He can step out of line and do what he thinks is right - I just stand there and do as I'm told because I think that's the only way I can get by. I respect that he lives by his convictions, and I think that Kyp beleives in what he does, and will believe in it until the very end. So, what's not to like about a guy such as that?
  11. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    If the planet Carida had a sentient population in the billions than by the time of the Jedi Academy trilogy that race was completely relocated or had been eradicated by the Empire because the Jedi Academy Sourcebook places it's population at 23 million inhabitants.

    This does not absolve Kyp but we must now question if that he was still going to kill so many anyway in the Deep Core.

    Also another question remains whether or not a man at war can be concievably tried for crimes that were against a hostile nation when he is neither a citizen of the Galactic Republic and Bel Iblis suggested the very same usage of the Sun Crusher kyp put it too.

    Take note that Han Solo was responsible for the Death of perhaps a million Nar Shaddans when he destroyed the Star Destroyer by deliberately turning their tractor beam against them.

    Furtermore while it was accidental there is some question about Leia, Han, and R2D2's responsibility for the death of the 19 billion inhabitants of Byss. Gross negligence apparently has tarnished their reputations despite their accident cost more lives than any other incidental death in the history of the galaxy.

    Kyp is George W. Bush Jr in my opinion in that his response is simple that in order to destroy an enemy you have to use means that you would never use during peacetime to do so that other future generations will never have to suffer for their evil. One might even believe Kyp does not only believe in defense but PUNISHMENT meaning that even as he himself was forgiven he believes others must suffer/be destroyed for their sins.

    He's a vigalante or an Old West Law men whose willing to lie now it's proven probably cheat and steal to stop the Vong....

    He's ruthless but he's not evil.

    He's an interesting character and an excellent foil to Luke.
  12. RingoJuna Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 18, 2001
    star 3
    I'd have to say it's his dishonesty that makes me dislike his character. i'm a pretty straightforward guy, so I have no place for lies and beating around the bush in my life. That's my reason.
  13. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    I've been lurking here for a while now. When I saw this topic, I had to join in.

    I, personally, dislike Kyp because he reminds me too much of many people I knew growing up. He seems to believe that he is a law unto himself, and that he is never wrong in what he chooses to do.

    He refuses to see that he, too, is fallible. That makes him dangerous.

    Last February, I finished serving a mission for my church in Las Vegas. During the 2 years of my mission, I met many people who believed that the ends justify the means. I knew people who would want to break the rules, or in some cases the law, for the cause of some "greater good". It turned my stomach then and still does now.

    He is an interesting character, but he hasn't really grown since the Jedi Academy Trilogy.

    Kimball Kinnison
  14. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    So Ringo, do you dislike Ben Kenobi, Padme and Panaka? They all lied too
  15. GUARDSMAN Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2001
    star 1
    Hey NarundiJedi I suggest giving ReaperFett a warning on not posting something which could only turn into a war.

    ShinagmiWing I'd have to say that was a good post, you came out and shared your thoughts in a really cool way. Unfortunately guys like ReaperFett can ruin a thread like this.

  16. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    Why will it? I want Ringo's POV on them. Not like Ill attack people if the answer is wrong, is it?
  17. JediJSolo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2001
    star 4
    I really don?t like any type of lie. However, there are lies that I find to be more forgivable than others are. These are your white lies. Lies that do not hurt anybody and are directly intended to protect the person who is lying or the person being lied to. Kenobi, Padme and Panaka?s lies fall into that category and so I can easily forgive them. Kyp?s lie, on the other hand, was directly intended to protect no one. The direct intention of the lie was to manipulate a person who had more credibility than Kyp did so that he could have more influence on the people who could help him get what he wanted. Kyp was directly protecting no one with his lie, and that makes it very hard for me to forgive him.

    I am against lies in general, but there are lies that are more acceptable than others are, in my opinion.
  18. suncrusherX Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 3
    Kyp's lie helped protect the entire galaxy.
  19. Epyon-X Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 3
    I like Kyp because he really is like myself.

    He realizes what needs to be done and goes out and does it. He realizes that it may cost greatly (lives, societies, etc.), but that it will benefit the greater whole in the end. But mainly, I just like how he is proactive most of the time, not wishing to "wait and see."
  20. JediJSolo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2001
    star 4
    ?Kyp's lie helped protect the entire galaxy.?

    I?m not going to tell you you?re wrong, because this isn?t the place to do that. What I will say is that I was talking about directly helping people. If Kyp?s lie did actually help people, it wasn?t the lie itself that did it. This makes the lie much harder for me to justify.
  21. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    only thing Ill say is this. Ben lied because of what Luke MIGHT do. Kyp did because of what the NR MIGHT do. Very similar in my eyes
  22. JediJSolo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2001
    star 4
    This is getting very frustrating. I can?t show evidence to prove that RF is wrong without getting a little off topic! What the heck? What exactly might the NR do that Kyp was so afraid of? As I understood it, Kyp thought that the NR wouldn?t listen to him. That?s not ?what they might do? that?s ?what they might not do?. It?s a small distinction, but in the matter of personal opinion, it could be pivotal; given the context that it is used in.

    Also, Kyp fails to recognize the bigger picture once again. The big picture is also something that my personal morals dictate must be taken into account. Kyp tries to get people to listen to him by lying to them. This is very effective for his short-term goals, but if he ever needs them to listen to him again, they will not. He has now become completely untrustworthy to some of the most powerful people in the NR, and has doomed himself because of that. This is why I consider Kyp the personification of my arrogant, impulsive, and devious side. Those sides of my personality are always looking for the short-term goal, and in the process, they try to destroy any chance I my have for a good future. Kyp has done just that, and it proves to me that I am right to not like those aspects of my personality.
  23. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    yeah, my point was they MIGHT not listen to him, and it was quite likely, being as Kyp had to go through three people, one with muchos grudgios :)

    And I reitaerate the standard point. No matter what you say about Kyp, hes doing more for the cause than Luke, who should just step down graciously and accept the time of the NJO, while building up Uber kid in the Toshi Staton :)
  24. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    Okay let's do this Socrates style.

    *ahem*

    Justify for me why Kyp Duroun felt the need to lie to Wedge Antilles about they're being a superweapon the Vong were using.

    Was it because he thought the New Republic wouldn't attack?

    Is that justifiable that the lives of those who attacked were worth the new world ship?

    Is it justifiable that they died not knowing exactly what they were fighting for?

    just a thought
  25. MaceWinducannotdie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2001
    star 4
    2nd reason for disagreement with Kyp: I hate the ends justify means philosophy. I think its a cowardly argument used by people who think they can get away with anything.

    Here are some examples (That I gave in a different thread but still apply here), albeit extreme ones, of that philosophy:

    "Kyp had to take the immediate family of the Peace Brigade leader and cut them into pieces slowly while broadcasting it live over the HoloNet because it deterred anyone with loved ones from daring to join the peace brigade."

    "Kyp had to kill the three year old Vong children because even though they hadn't yet done anything, they would've been trained as warriors and in 13 years they'd be fighting the Republic."

    "Kyp had to kill Luke, Mara, Jacen, and Corran because they were leading the Jedi in what he deemed an unwise way."

    "Kyp had to kill all of the people (Vong and otherwise) the Republic had in prison because it cost the Republic too much to hold them when it needed everyone out there fighting."

    "Kyp had no choice when he killed the guy who designed the Republic's new warships. If the Vong got ahold of him they might discover weak spots in his ships."

    "Kyp had to destroy the ship filled with refugees. Bleeding hearts like Leia are diverting resources to them that are better used in directly fighting the Vong."

    "Kyp had to kill those Caamasi peaceniks because they were questioning his tactics, which hurts the war effort."

    "Kyp had to declare himself Emperor because he's the only one who has what it takes to beat the Vong."

    "After the Vong retreated back to their galaxy, Kyp had to let loose a Vong strain of the Krytos virus to make sure they didn't try anymore of that funny stuff."

    See, as long as Kyp is trying to save the galaxy, he can do no wrong. [/sarcasm]
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